I f you forget everything you........

[Cymro#1]

.....learnt on this forum Just remember.......... wear earplugs

[csm]

PARDON? SORRY? WHAT?

[Dougie.Douglas]

I wish I wore earplugs when I started gigging etc...

[Cymro#1]

I wish I wore earplugs when I started gigging etc...

I know.....me too Dougie. Got the dreaded hiss now.

[Dougie.Douglas]

I know.....me too Dougie. Got the dreaded hiss now.

Same... all I can hear most nights now is just BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP... Not good. Also, my girlfriend has noticed that my hearing has gone way down hill lately.

[Furtive]

You heard it, kids. Protect your ears and your eyes. They cannot be replaced.

[Cymro#1]

Went to an audiologist a few weeks ago and came away with a soundboard....plays water falls, white noise, sea shore sounds etc for night time use to mask the T . Quite good but it's always there.

[jelloman]

I've been sleeping with a fan on for years now...

[Cymro#1]

Yes me too in summer. I find that's a good masker.

[jbandy10]

EARPLUGS R 4 PUSSIES

 

REAL MEN DIME EVERYTHING AND {censored} THE WORLD

 

But nah seriously, keep it quiet or keep them on.

[tlbonehead]

don't have to if you use a little sense.

[Saturn]

don't have to if you use a little sense.

 

 

Exactly.........I don't know what you guys are playing that so many of you are complaining of perminent hearing loss but I've been playing over 25 years and giged regularly for more than 10 of that and have no hearing issues. There have even been times where I/we would be pretty loud.

 

DB levels of 125 will cause pain in the ears. DB levels 140 and over can cause permanent hearing loss.

 

Even the loudest bands have only been measured at 120 - 140 db. At that level daily exposure of 15 minutes can cause hearing loss. So unless you are the guitarist for AC/DC, The Who, Kiss or some other loud band I don't see how there is so much hearing damage.

 

A 40 watt amp in a average size venue will put out about 90db. At that level you could be exposed for 8 hours daily without hearing damage. Even if you were really loud and pushed 100db wich I doubt most venues would have you turning it down if you were above that you could still be exposed for 2 hours daily without hearing damage.

[Eddie]

Did you gig with a drummer?

 

Cymbals reach levels over 120dB. Exposure to those levels should be limited to less than 15 minutes. Actually that's the guideline for 115 dB, so maybe it's 5 minutes or less.

 

I began using earplugs since I was next to the drummer. The guitars, bass, and keyboard did not affect me at all, and on stage we kept our volume pretty low. The audience on the other hand was exposed to louder levels.

 

Using an isolation booth for the drums definitely helped, but not many bands use them.

 

Townsend developed problems after the exploding drum set (Smothers Brothers?), and Sir George Martin went deaf due to listening at loud levels. Guitar amplifiers are a small part of this issue.

[Saturn]

Did you gig with a drummer? Cymbals reach levels over 120dB. Exposure to those levels should be limited to less than 15 minutes. Actually that's the guideline for 115 dB, so maybe it's 5 minutes or less. I began using earplugs since I was next to the drummer. The guitars, bass, and keyboard did not affect me at all, and on stage we kept our volume pretty low. The audience on the other hand was exposed to louder levels. Using an isolation booth for the drums definitely helped, but not many bands use them. Townsend developed problems after the exploding drum set (Smothers Brothers?), and Sir George Martin went deaf due to listening at loud levels. Guitar amplifiers are a small part of this issue.

 

 

Yes and I have played with some loud drummers. The thing about drums is that db level is not sustained. You may have peaks that are high but still not to the level of causing permanent damage. I have never been on stage with a drummer that banged on a cymbal for 15 minutes without a break.

[tlbonehead]

Did you gig with a drummer? Cymbals reach levels over 120dB. Exposure to those levels should be limited to less than 15 minutes. Actually that's the guideline for 115 dB, so maybe it's 5 minutes or less. I began using earplugs since I was next to the drummer. The guitars, bass, and keyboard did not affect me at all, and on stage we kept our volume pretty low. The audience on the other hand was exposed to louder levels. Using an isolation booth for the drums definitely helped, but not many bands use them. Townsend developed problems after the exploding drum set (Smothers Brothers?), and Sir George Martin went deaf due to listening at loud levels. Guitar amplifiers are a small part of this issue.

yes, since the mid 70s with a drummer. I have always played with drummers who could play with energy w/o beating the heck out of their stuff, plus a cymbol is not a constant, especially the louder ones used for crash/accents. And I always set up so that I am not right on top of the drums. Every meter of distance decreases the volume by roughly 3db.

[tlbonehead]

.

this.

[Eddie]

Saturn,

It obviously is not about banging on a cymbal for 15 minutes, but in my case the prolonged exposure for 60-90 minutes, 2 or 3 times a week.

 

The guidelines about time are just guidelines, but damage can occur in just one second. Townsend was not exposed to a 15 minute explosion. He developed problems after one quick incident.

 

Clapton's and George Martin's deafness occurred more gradually.

 

tlbonehead,

I had to play about 1 foot away from the drums. Unfortunately these are the only 2 pictures I have of that stage. The chandelier can serve as reference although it's too dark in one picture.

 

On the first attachment there's a Marshall amp. From this angle I would walk towards the amp and move a bit to the right just before reaching the amp. That was my spot. Once facing the audience, the drums were behind me, a bit to my left and 2 feet up.

 

On the second picture I think I see the kick drum, next to the Les Paul.

 

Each of us had at least one stage monitor, and our levels were pretty low on stage. In my case everything was fine except for the drums. I began wearing earplugs thanks to the advise of our keyboard player.

 

 

 

I should mention that there's an additive effect to sound level. Drums at the moment of striking are at 125 (115 continuous). Even using conservative numbers a typical rock band produces enough volume to damage a person's hearing. This is not considering the PA, which can make things worse for the audience. I had the displeasure of having to listen to Radiohead at idiotic volumes.

 

I agree 100% with Cymro#1's advise. It helps with both loud as well as prolonged noise.

 

Rock music 150dB (peak)

Level at which sustained exposure may result in hearing loss 90 - 95dB

 

EDIT: Added link

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-spl.htm

[mistersully]

imo it's often the rehearsing, rather than the gigging that can be the problem

[tlbonehead]

imo it's often the rehearsing, rather than the gigging that can be the problem

that's where I hear most of these volume horror stories.

[fretmonster]

Is there a way to dampen the cymbals for rehearsing. I put some duct tape down one side as recommended to me but it didn't really do anything. So is the only solution to wear earplugs? Seems like you could miss some cues that way, particularly when first learning a song.

[tlbonehead]

Is there a way to dampen the cymbals for rehearsing. I put some duct tape down one side as recommended to me but it didn't really do anything. So is the only solution to wear earplugs? Seems like you could miss some cues that way, particularly when first learning a song.

we can talk and be heard when practicing.

[Poltergeist]

Hearos are the stuff, and they're relatively cheap. they leave mostly unharmed the frequencies needed.

[Special J]

They make rubber dampers that go over a cymbal. Sound Off is the company. They change the feel of the cymbal quite a bit though, so your drummer will likely hate them.

 

Bonehead and Saturn, you guys may be in bands that are very good about controlling stage volume, but IME that is not the norm. Cymro's advice should well be heeded, and not only when playing, but when attending a concert, shooting guns, using loud power tools for extended periods, mowing the lawn, etc. Basically whenever you think there's even a chance it might be too loud, and you might damage your hearing.

[dezmoduo]

Hearing loss is cumulative and irreversible. It way better to take the precaution and not have to learn to adapt to the noise in your head for the last 40-50 years of your life.

 

With all the great gear we get to use, buy,trade and sell, the cost of custom ear mold plugs with swappable db filters really isn't that much in the BIG picture.

 

I think back to those endless summer jams as a kid, and we got such a giggle out of our "shellshock" ringing. Yah, we were cool as hell.

 

In any event, even if you THINK about hearing protection from reading these posts, that's a positive step in the right direction.

[scolfax]

 

that's where I hear most of these volume horror stories.

 

 

+1. I had a bit from concerts but it really went to the next level when we rehearsed too damn loud. Only once a week, but a few months of that was enough to do the damage.