Slightly OT - Studio Monitors vs PA vs Hi-Fi audio system in conjunction with models.

[kit_strong]

I just posted my NGID thread in regards to my new Apogee GIO and which leads me to my next question regarding the ideal audio setup.

I'm not as concerned about critical listening (i.e. mixing) situations as I am just using it to practice and jam along to backing tracks and such.

I have a spare Denon Receiver that's not currently used and could pick up some decent speakers for pretty cheap. The other option is to get some cheap Active Studio monitors or perhaps a Powered PA speaker.

 

So the question is which option will give me the best overall sound at relatively low volumes without breaking the bank?

 

Thanks,

Kit

[mrbrown49]

I think modeling tends to work best through a clean rig that has more of a hi-fi type sound. Powered studio monitors might work really well for your situation. Check out some of the M-audio and KRK stuff. They are relatively cheap and sound pretty good.

 

Actually if you record at all you'll really like having monitors around anyway. They make a huge difference.

[kit_strong]

 

I think modeling tends to work best through a clean rig that has more of a hi-fi type sound. Powered studio monitors might work really well for your situation. Check out some of the M-audio and KRK stuff. They are relatively cheap and sound pretty good. Actually if you record at all you'll really like having monitors around anyway. They make a huge difference.

 

 

With the layout of my computer room I'll likely be doing any mixing over headphones.

[CoqBelliqueux]

*subscribes to thread*

[StompBoxLover]

 

With the layout of my computer room I'll likely be doing any mixing over headphones.

 

 

not recommended.

 

you can pick up a used pair of 'Tannoy Reveal' for little $$$.

probably the best bang for the buck.

[kit_strong]

 

not recommended. you can pick up a used pair of 'Tannoy Reveal' for little $$$. probably the best bang for the buck.

 

Well, that's a topic for a whole different thread anyway. As I originally said my focus here isn't in regards to critical listening situations. Its more about just playing.

[mrbrown49]

 

With the layout of my computer room I'll likely be doing any mixing over headphones.

 

 

It never hurts to have another reference though, and it seems like it will fit both niches well. My space is pretty constrained so I try to get the most of my space and equipment and multitask my gear wherever I can.

 

Some of the monitors are surprisingly compact too, even the ones with 6 or 8 inch drivers.

[cratz2]

For just playing and jamming along with a recording or for practice, I think any reasonably clean rig will work. For feeling like you're playing through an amp, I think sounds best to play through an amp. The modeler into the FX look of a decent tube amp is my preference for working with modelers.

 

A hi fi system sounds too... hi fi. It sounds like you're listening to a recording of a guitar, rather than playing the guitar. You lose the visceral impact and connection you have when playing through a cranked amp.

 

On the other hand, if you dig 80s and 90s metal tones, through a modeler and a set of monitors, you can get those types of tones literally at a volume level so quiet your girl can be sleeping in the same room while you are playing. But if you like big, room-filling Fender cleans and Vox 'barely broken up' tones, forget it.

[kit_strong]

 

For just playing and jamming along with a recording or for practice, I think any reasonably clean rig will work. For feeling like you're playing through an amp, I think sounds best to play through an amp. The modeler into the FX look of a decent tube amp is my preference for working with modelers.

 

I get what your saying here and in most cases I would be in agreement. I probably should have specified that I'll also be running my keyboard (through garage band) into this as well so I think a full range speaker is a better bet otherwise I'd probably just get a Tech 21 Power Engine and call it a day.

[Special J]

Depends on what you really mean by "relatively low volumes". Studio monitors (at least the inexpensive, smaller ones) are meant to be listened to in near-field, lower volume situations. They have the potential to sound the best, depending on how much you spend. However, being a guitarist, you might want to crank it up to get the feeling of playing through a loud amp. For this, I would recommend a powered PA speaker.

[cratz2]

Absolutely! I wasn't talking smack about using monitors at all. I have 5 or 6 decent tube amps and when everyone else is asleep, I play a Korg Pandora either through headphones or through my monitors but I'm a clean and low gain player at heart and for those tones, I really like the room interaction that comes from a cranked amp. For high-ish gain tones, I think I might even like the Korg/monitor combo better than a loud amp.

[mrbrown49]

 

Depends on what you really mean by "relatively low volumes". Studio monitors (at least the inexpensive, smaller ones) are meant to be listened to in near-field, lower volume situations. They have the potential to sound the best, depending on how much you spend. However, being a guitarist, you might want to crank it up to get the feeling of playing through a loud amp. For this, I would recommend a powered PA speaker.

 

 

That's a good point. I'd pick between the two based on the most used listening situation. If they'll be used sitting in from of the computer while recording most of the time monitors will probably be best. If it will be used and positioned in the room more like a guitar amp then I'd go the PA speaker route.

[mrbrown49]

 

Absolutely! I wasn't talking smack about using monitors at all. I have 5 or 6 decent tube amps and when everyone else is asleep, I play a Korg Pandora either through headphones or through my monitors but I'm a clean and low gain player at heart and for those tones, I really like the room interaction that comes from a cranked amp. For high-ish gain tones, I think I might even like the Korg/monitor combo better than a loud amp.

 

 

Are you using speaker and amp sims, or effects patches mostly. I think the former sounds best through a system that colors the sound the least, PA or monitors or even a nice SS amp, and I think the latter sounds best through a guitar rig.

[AlexMC]

I use a variety of guitars and a bass into a POD XT Live, into a mixer, into a pair of studio monitors:

 

 

The mixer allows for quick and easy connection of headphones, mics etc and easy-to-access volume knobs, but I cuold easily run straight into the monitors. Monitors attempt to show you as close as possible how your audio sounds, rather than 'colouring' the tone/EQ as do hi fi speakers, headphones and guitar amps.

 

If you are using any sort of modeller for recording, always use monitors rather than the alternatives if you want an accurate idea of the audio you're actually committing to tape.

[mrbrown49]

Looks like a great setup you got there. Which monitors do you have, and how do you get on with those drum pads. I can't stand programming my drum machine.

 

I use a variety of guitars and a bass into a POD XT Live, into a mixer, into a pair of studio monitors: The mixer allows for quick and easy connection of headphones, mics etc and easy-to-access volume knobs, but I cuold easily run straight into the monitors. Monitors attempt to show you as close as possible how your audio sounds, rather than 'colouring' the tone/EQ as do hi fi speakers, headphones and guitar amps. If you are using any sort of modeller for recording, always use monitors rather than the alternatives if you want an accurate idea of the audio you're actually committing to tape.

[cratz2]

 

Are you using speaker and amp sims, or effects patches mostly. I think the former sounds best through a system that colors the sound the least, PA or monitors or even a nice SS amp, and I think the latter sounds best through a guitar rig.

 

 

Both really. Since I much prefer my cleans to be loud, what I tend to do is play loud and clean during normal hours and play quiet and gained up when everyone else is in bed. I usually have quiet a bit of gain, some delay and some reverb for late 80s to early 90s kinds of tones. I use amp sims AND speaker sims. Maybe through an actual loud PA turning off the sims may or may not help, but either played quiet through the monitors or loud into the FX loop of a tube amp, I like the amp sims and cab sims both on.

[AlexMC]

 

Looks like a great setup you got there. Which monitors do you have, and how do you get on with those drum pads. I can't stand programming my drum machine.

 

 

Alesis M1 520 active monitors - cost around

[mrbrown49]

 

The Yamaha drumset is very basic - the pads aren't very sensitive and the internal sounds aren't great. But I've used it as a MIDI controller to record drums in a DAW, and it's great for jams with friends... without taking up too much space or annoying the neighbours.

 

 

Yeah I'm not expecting much from the on board sounds, but if it works good enough as a trigger I have decent enough samples to make something that sounds good.

 

You say the triggers aren't sensitive. Do you have issues with it not seeing the hits on softer passages, or double triggers? Those would be the issues that would make me look for another unit. Everything else about that I like though. It's cheap, and small enough to fit in my small studio (bedroom) space.

[mysterymonger]

 

I just posted my NGID thread in regards to my new Apogee GIO and which leads me to my next question regarding the ideal audio setup. I'm not as concerned about critical listening (i.e. mixing) situations as I am just using it to practice and jam along to backing tracks and such. I have a spare Denon Receiver that's not currently used and could pick up some decent speakers for pretty cheap. The other option is to get some cheap Active Studio monitors or perhaps a Powered PA speaker. So the question is which option will give me the best overall sound at relatively low volumes without breaking the bank? Thanks, Kit

 

 

Hey, I use an old Kenwood receiver to power a couple of yamaha pa monitors that my DJ friend gave me since he upgraded. I run my RP500 via usb to CubaseLE4 to record, then both the RP500 and PC out go thru a behringer 16 chan. mixer (also free) to the Kenwood. Looks totally ghetto but sounds really good IMO.

 

The trick is familiarity, a good ear, and a little knowledge with regards to mixing and mastering. I usually listen to music thru this setup when I'm not recording so I'm familiar with the nuances of it. Also, when I go to post mix and mastering, I compare my clips to quality recordings from various artists in roughly the same genre. This is mainly for overall levels and where each instrument sits in the mix. I know my mixes aren't the best but I think they are pretty good considering the gear I used and the time spent on them, which isn't a lot.

 

I'm all about practicality and using what I have on hand. If I can't make it work, that's when I break out the wallet and even then I'd look for the best deal possible. there are some great suggestions in this thread. I just wanted to share my experiences.

[robertkoa]

For low volume playing you're on the right track regarding NOT using guitar speakers ( guitar speakers IMO have magnets too large to sound full at very low volumes).

 

If you can afford them , get monitors with 8" woofers for fat low volume sounds- the Behringer passive Truth Monitors will be really good for this at about 150. per pair. They are large but still fat at low volume and big 4-12 Cab emulations will sound more convincing thru them than little monitors.

 

Of course with full range speakers(for guitar monitoring)( without micing a real amp ) you need cab sims ( hardware or software ) ( Pod Xt cab sims etc.) somewhere in your signal chain.