Members guitarcapo Posted March 8, 2010 Members Share Posted March 8, 2010 Here's the auction. The item arrived perfectly fine BUT...The serial number is scratched out. The seller stated that it is a factory second and that's why....But as you can see from the auction, someone specifically asks him if the serial number is intact and he replies that it is stamped "used" There is no "used" stamp from the factory anywhere indicating it is a factory second...just the serial number scratched off...which he neglects to mention. Of course the item is now dead for resale becuase it looks stolen to the buyer. The seller doesn't think this is a problem. Negative feedback? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members seven58 Posted March 8, 2010 Members Share Posted March 8, 2010 Sounds fishy. You could go through the eBay process to get a refund. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted March 8, 2010 Author Members Share Posted March 8, 2010 It's a minor issue and I probably won't go through the hassle of returning it or demanding a refund over $250. But the seller was definitely deceptive when someone asked him if the serial number was intact during the auction. Instead of fessing up and saying it's been scratched off at the factory, he described it as "stamped used"... I'm guessing it probably IS a factory second. But the point is that by having the serial scratched off it looks stolen...and I won't ever be able to sell it because it might as well BE stolen. I'm thinking the seller didn't want to mention that the serial number was scratched off so he could get a higher price for it. So he skirted around answering honestly. At this point I might make it a vote: Negative Feedback or Not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaleH Posted March 8, 2010 Members Share Posted March 8, 2010 Just keep a copy of the transaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted March 8, 2010 Author Members Share Posted March 8, 2010 Yea I guess so. But Ebay will kill an auction by item number after a few months. Maybe I'll just print the auction and the name and address of the dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted March 8, 2010 Members Share Posted March 8, 2010 I'd insist on a refund for an altered serial number. Maybe call Epiphone and see if they do it at the factory, but that'll definitely make it hard to sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hoddy Posted March 9, 2010 Members Share Posted March 9, 2010 Does the label inside the guitar have the serial number? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fistacuffs Posted March 9, 2010 Members Share Posted March 9, 2010 no factory would scratch out a serial number. They would stamp it second. The item is stolen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members roycew93 Posted March 9, 2010 Members Share Posted March 9, 2010 no factory would scratch out a serial number. They would stamp it second. The item is stolen. I was just going to say that. I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jak83 Posted March 9, 2010 Members Share Posted March 9, 2010 Definitely, I've never heard of a manufacturer scratching out serial numbers. That makes about 0 sense. My guess is that it's stolen as well. If I wanted to be sure, I'd call Epiphone and just ask them. After that, the honest thing to do would be to contact eBay and some form of law enforcement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jpnyc Posted March 9, 2010 Members Share Posted March 9, 2010 Not only leave negative feedback, but contact both eBay and his local police department. If he Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members carguy Posted March 9, 2010 Members Share Posted March 9, 2010 I'm looking at this from the seller's point of view. I would rather have to take the guitar back than have a negative feedback given to me. Having said that, I agree that this guitar appears to be stolen. The seller may not have known that, but should have been suspicious. His not answering the question directly about the serial number being scratched off makes me believe he WAS suspicious about its being stolen. I would notify him that he did not inform you in his item description that the serial number was scratched off and you want to return it. Otherwise, you will have no choice but to pursue the matter through e-Bay and leave negative feedback. If I was faced with that choice, I would accept the return of the guitar.....and relist it, disclosing the fact the serial number was scratched off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MartinHines Posted March 9, 2010 Members Share Posted March 9, 2010 You should only leave negative feedback if you have a situation you can not resolve with the Seller. The Seller may not have been totally honest or accurate, but what do you think is a fair resolution? For example, if you think the resale value has diminished, perhaps you should ask for a partial refund. You also have the option of returning the item if you feel the listing was inaccurate. You could leave negative feedback, but the Seller could simply add a response stating you never gave him a chance to rectify the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ten56gibby Posted March 9, 2010 Members Share Posted March 9, 2010 Neutral. It wasn't your question he lied about. Although he did lie. I want to say negative, but really I just think neutral is the way to go. And you should try and see if you can get some degree of reimbursement from the seller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Roy Posted March 9, 2010 Members Share Posted March 9, 2010 scatched out SN+he lied = guy's a crook negative feedback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cratz2 Posted March 9, 2010 Members Share Posted March 9, 2010 Call me sneaky, but what I would personally do is I would write him, state your case and say you want a complete refund including shipping both ways. If he agrees, I'd personally give him positive feedback and then I'd decide if I wanted to return it or keep it. I will say S/N issue aside, it's a fabulous looking guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soldierblue Posted March 9, 2010 Members Share Posted March 9, 2010 Negative feedback is like they killed your dog or something. Talk to him first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Carbohydrates Posted March 9, 2010 Members Share Posted March 9, 2010 Ask for refund -> if yes, do that and cleanse yourself of potentially or previously stolen gear / if no, neutral feedback / if no and he's an ass, negative feedback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oldskool Texas Posted March 9, 2010 Members Share Posted March 9, 2010 I may be missing something, but one of the pictures sure looks like part of the serial number is scratched out on the sticker inside the soundhole. Technically, he never answered the question about whether the S# was intact on the sticker, so the only "lie" he told was about it being stamped used. If it was that important to me, I would have asked for a picture of the used stamp, since there clearly isn't one on the back of the headstock. It seems that he spells out the conditions of his auctions pretty thoroughly, and at the end of his spiel he writes, "NO return. Ask all questions." I think you owe him positive feedback. You didn't do your homework, and you're relying on his answer to someone else's question. I'm guessing this guy sells dozens of guitars a week, most of them factory seconds; this one might have slipped by under his radar. Bottom line, nothing in this auction makes him a crook. At worst, he got sloppy with the Q & A. As for resale, cross that bridge when you come to it - hell, you just bought it! Are you thinking about selling it already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flyinbryan Posted March 9, 2010 Members Share Posted March 9, 2010 this is perfect. Call me sneaky, but what I would personally do is I would write him, state your case and say you want a complete refund including shipping both ways. If he agrees, I'd personally give him positive feedback and then I'd decide if I wanted to return it or keep it. I will say S/N issue aside, it's a fabulous looking guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flyinbryan Posted March 9, 2010 Members Share Posted March 9, 2010 i would add to my above post,,,,,,,,,,,, that guitar is beautiful. personally, i wouldnt be that concerned with this particular issue, but like cratz said, it would be nice to at least know he would take it back (then id keep it, and proof of purchase) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cortfan Posted March 9, 2010 Members Share Posted March 9, 2010 I read the entire description and disclaimer in the auction. I would enjoy the guitar and give him positive feedback. He clearly stated it was used, and to ask all questions before bidding. It also said No Refunds. Please go back and re read the auction. Keep all your paperwork to prove you bought it legit. Enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted March 9, 2010 Author Members Share Posted March 9, 2010 Update: He's agreed to a refund after I return the item...but will only refund HIS shipping cost to me...not my cost shipping it back. Ball's in my court. It's really a nice sounding guitar. No problems with the action, setup or anything. I was going to drop an active onboard pickup system in it and gig with it this summer. Now I gotta decide whether I should keep it and live with the scratched out serial number on the label in the soundhole...which doesn't matter unless I sell it some day...Or be $40 poorer and have nothing. A third option I have is that I have a band mate I might sell it to for $40 less than I paid (he might not care about the sn and like a great deal.).... and I just give this jerk a negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nevermind Posted March 9, 2010 Members Share Posted March 9, 2010 epiphone has always obliterated serial # for factory seconds. I've had both a les paul and a dot that were purchased from MF as factory blems with the serial # stamped through with Xs or dashes. I don't know what was said or whatever, but you can plainly see in the 3rd photo that the serial # was scratched out on the paper tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted March 9, 2010 Author Members Share Posted March 9, 2010 I read the entire description and disclaimer in the auction. I would enjoy the guitar and give him positive feedback. He clearly stated it was used, and to ask all questions before bidding. It also said No Refunds. Please go back and re read the auction. Maybe I'm wrong but "no refunds" doesn't absolve you when someone asks you if the serial number is intact and you give a cryptic answer that it's stamped "used"...Personally I would think anyone selling a guitar would offer up that info without having to be prompted selling an item on Ebay....but after someone asks outright and he doesn't offer the info...then how am I wrong for assuming it's there? All you people out there who buy guitars on Ebay....did you ask on everty occasion if the serial number was scratched off before you paid? How would YOU feel if a guitar arrived with the s/n scratched off and wasn't told? Would you say..."Oh well...my fault for not asking because he said no refunds...." Or would you think you just received stolen stuff and think that was deceptive? I'm looking at the label right now from the ad and I can see that the serial number is scratched out now...couldn't pick that up on my laptop screen...and wasn't looking that close....but hell isn't the seller supposed to mention that? Now that someone is saying Epi does that on its seconds and I'm going to take a $40 hit returning it maybe I'll just keep it. But why didn't this jerk call it a "factory second" or "blem" instead of "stamped used" WTF is that supposed to mean? Stating a guitar is "used" doesn't immediately translate into serial numbers being filed off. If someone sold you a 1960 Gibson...wouldn't you feel it worth a LOT LESS if the serial number was filed off? Or would you just assume that to be normal wear and tear you can expect when buying a "used guitar" that the seller need not mention? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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