Thinking about going Line 6

[Bun-Bun]

But HD150 or Valve MKII? The biggest thing right now pushing me towards to the MKII is looks (and I hate that).

 

Play pretty much all music but really leaning to metal here for this... play in my basement... no band yet though woudl like to soon.

 

Considering Dual Rec or H&K Trilogy but do I really need a $2k+ head for playing in my basement... plan to use my Traynor combo speakers and its extension cab to hook up to the Line six (so 2 backless Celestion 70/80's and 2 backed Celestion 70/80's)

 

Input?

[curseoftruth]

For home play, I think modeling amps are great. I'd have one of those Line/6 Bogner or Vox modeling amps if I just played for my own pleasure. But being in a loud band that strives for vintage heavy tone, gotta run the big guns!

[Bun-Bun]

That's been what I have been thinking. I get a more versatile amp plus the equivalent of 5 or more descent pedals for $1000? Sounds like a deal to me. Then as I hone in on a few tones I really like or get into a band that needs a certain tone I can buy some better gear.

Only thing is... HD150 vs Valve MKII? I havent tried the HD150 in person but its half the price... Right now looking online the MKII is winning solely for the clean channel I have heard in person and looks...

[CrackerD]

Just get a pod and run it thru your Traynor.

[Jesse G]

Valve MKII will probably cut through better than the HD 150. But that's purely speculation.

[Bun-Bun]

Just get a pod and run it thru your Traynor.

 

 

I thought about this... but my Traynor has a crappy clean channel. Its either too thin or its muddy. I have tried changing tubes but I just cant get it to where I like it.

[crashclc]

You're considering 150 watts to play in your basement??! Crank that bad boy up in a basement and you will deafen yourself, but there's no need to worry about that because your damn house will fall on you first.

[Bun-Bun]

You're considering 150 watts to play in your basement??! Crank that bad boy up in a basement and you will deafen yourself, but there's no need to worry about that because your damn house will fall on you first.

haha... yeah. I am already running 80watts tube into 4x12's so I don't think there will be much of a difference there (160watts is what another 3db?).

I am thinking the SS (HD150) would be more manegable at lower volumes? I am thinking the whole issue of tube tone at low volume...

[ieso]

the pod is the only piece of L6 hardware I ever bought that didn't break just outside of the warranty period. And one amp, while covered by warranty, was in and out of the shop a lot -- L6 makes their amps out of car audio parts and particle board. just junk. seriously, they make good software but sub-mediocre physical amps/pedals, etc. you'd be buying a disposable McAmp. Of course, you might get lucky and get one that goes the distance -- lots of people out there that beat the odds.

 

I have a Spider IV 75 behind me right now and, compared to my tube amp, it is a joke. sometimes you get he vague impression of a tube amp recording but there is no tube amp experience.

 

The tube power section of the bogner spider is just a flat freq mini PA thing...nothing like a real tube amp....just marketing hype. A friend of mine who builds amps had this to say about the L6/bogner spider amps:

 

 

the tubes shown on that page aren't Sovtek 5881WXT. They are the run of the mill Sovtek 5881. The WXT version has a full-size base, the tubes shown have the "coin" or "button" base. The Sovtek 5881 isn't a real 5881. It isn't even in the 6L6 family. The Russian designation is 6?3?-?? (6P3S-EV). It is a rugged tube which is used in the MiG fighter plane. In standard Fender 6L6-type circuits, it puts out about 80% of the power that a real 6L6 would. Mike Mathews of New Sensor began to sell this tube in the early 90s as a 6L6 replacement after the last American tube manufacturer ceased production in 1988. There were no decent 6L6 types being produced at the time. OTOH, the Sovtek 5881/6?3?-?? is a particularly rugged tube. A normal 6L6GC is a 30w tube. I've biased Sovtek 5881 tubes up to 40w with only a slight hint of red plating (overdissipation of the anode). The lifetime of a normal 6L6GC would be measured in seconds if biased up to 40w. In most guitar amp circuits, the Sovtek 5881/6?3?-?? is flat, even neutral sounding. Not the best tube for an old Fender. I can see why Bogner chose it for the Spider Valve. Most of the tone and distortion in that amp is generated by the preamp and the digital modelling....it won't color the signal much. Another thing: the link states that two Sovtek 5881/6?3?-?? tubes are used in a 40w push pull amplifier section in the combo and four are used in the 100w head. The sovteks are practically loafing in those circuits and will last a good long time.

 

 

YMMV

[Dougie.Douglas]

I don't know about those Line 6 amps, but we use a couple at college, and I must say that the tonez ent half bad. They're bloody brilliant practise amps for noodeling around on or experimenting with different effects etc.

[blackmonday]

Ok I have an original Spider Valve 2x12, and a 2x12 Spider III with 150 watts -

The Spider valve isn't a completely different amp, but it is much more the real thing. You have real tubes pushing a pair of V30s, so there you go.

 

The biggest complaint of the Spider Valve is that it still doesn't react exactly like a tube amp, and that's true, but it is very close, so close that it's not that big of an issue for me. There's a $150 upgrade that I haven't tried, but it supposedly makes the amp a real winner.

[bdegrande]

I own some Line 6 gear (Variaxes, Pod XT/X3 Live), but my preference is to have the modeling itself separate from the amp. The reason is that modeling technology is changing far more quickly than amp technology is, and you can just swap out a smaller external box rather than upgrading the entire amp every few years.

[CrackerD]

I had a Line 6 AX212 which was their top of the line at the time.

 

What a giant piece of {censored}. Sounded worse the louder it got. Horrible. The only decent model was the JCM800 which was okay sounding. Traded it straight across for a Boogie DC-5 that was brand new. I danced around with joy all night long thanking the good Lord after that trade!!!!

 

I do use a UX-1 with Pod Farm for recording and I do love that and have got some really decent tones out of it.

[ieso]

I had a Line 6 AX212 which was their top of the line at the time. What a giant piece of {censored}. Sounded worse the louder it got. Horrible. The only decent model was the JCM800 which was okay sounding. Traded it straight across for a Boogie DC-5 that was brand new. I danced around with joy all night long thanking the good Lord after that trade!!!! I do use a UX-1 with Pod Farm for recording and I do love that and have got some really decent tones out of it.

 

+1

 

Same exact experience (w/o the happy Boogie ending). Then after a couple of years my AX caught on fire while playing a festival.

 

Sadly, the AX sounded better then the new Spider amp I have.

[EADGBE]

Check out some Marshall solid states too.

[symphonictank]

I'm still using my Line 6 Spider II 210 combo w/floorboard for regular gigs. Modelling amps are fine for a gig setting once you understand their limitations.

I use the green crunch amp model (brown-sound) and have set all my presets using that model (mostly clean) with different variations of effects.

I run a bad horsie II, 6 band EQ, compressor/sustainer, Boss DS1 and Boss chorus in front of the amp (most modelling amps don't take pedals well, so it took a while to come up with stuff that works nicely in front of it).

These pedals give me enough different shades using the same amp models to play practically anything, and because the same amp model/volume settings are used, it's all seemless in the mix.

What becomes a problem is when you start mixing too many different amp models (which are all EQ'd very differently and can be a sound man's nightmare).

I get extremely positive compliments about my tone/sound everytime I play, and most players cannot believe the tone I get from a 7 year old Line 6 POS modeling amp...LOL (and the guy I often share the stage with is using an Orange Rockerverb with a much larger selection of pedals - mostly keeley and other boutique pedals. he just shakes his head in disbelief when he hears my rig).

[Bun-Bun]

Modelling amps are fine for a gig setting once you understand their limitations. I get extremely positive compliments about my tone/sound everytime I play, and most players cannot believe the tone I get from a 7 year old Line 6 POS modeling amp...LOL (and the guy I often share the stage with is using an Orange Rockerverb with a much larger selection of pedals - mostly keeley and other boutique pedals. he just shakes his head in disbelief when he hears my rig).

 

 

I think this could be said for almost any setup. It's up to the player to make it sound good on stage and learn/know how to dial in tone/effects.

 

 

So far nothing telling me to get the HD150 over the SV MKII other then price... time for a second part time job I guess...

[3leggeddog]

If you're going to go with Line 6, I'd pass on the half tube/half solid state stuff and go with a very good solid state like the Flextone III (which is far superior IMHO to the hybrid stuff.) A used Flextone III goes for 250-450 and has, I think, much more convincing "tube tone" than the hybrids that actually use tubes.

[Bun-Bun]

Can't find a head for the Flextone... I dont really have room in my room for another combo amp...

[newmaxnew]

I never had a problem with cutting through the mix with the Line6 HD147 amp I used for several years in an original band. I really don't understand the claim that modelling amps can't cut in a mix. Granted I never played the cheap spider series and I don't use many effects, but that HD147 never had a problem.

I also had sound guys compliment me on my tone, so it sounded good and cut through the mix.

Max

[Bun-Bun]

Ok well... I have been thinking about this way too much and I finally just went and ordered both and rented them from my local L&Q for the week.



Spider IV HD150 on the top and Spider Valve MKII below it.

Modeling/Effects are identical between the two. Spider Valve does not have all the Artist/Song presets (kinda dissapointing but not a deal breaker) the reasoning said to be to make more room for user presets. Plus with the software you can download and some updates that you can push through the FBV pedal's you can configure all the presets on the computer and share them online. So I am pretty sure you would be able to get the same presets and put them on if there is any you really want. Have to look into that some more. Defintly seems really cool to be able to play with the presets on the computer utilizing either the FBV pedal's or midi in the MKII's case.

HD150 feels cheap in comparions to the MKII HD100. Lots of plastic parts, lighter, just looks cheap. HD150 lacks midi, preamp in/out, and different cabinet options (only takes 8 ohm cabs where the MKII HD100 takes 16ohm, 8ohm, & 4 ohm plus has them split for easier connecting). On that note the HD150 isnt really 150watt, it is 75x2 stereo. So to take full advantage you have to have two cabs (or a stereo cab) wired at 8ohm. Very limiting IMO... to have a versatile head/amp and then be extremely limited in how you connect it seems silly to me.

Now the sound... here is where I have mixed feelings and don't know what to think. All I have done so far is used it in manual with no effects on using the amber twang (fender deluxe) and amber metal (mesa dual rec) models. They both sound good and have lots of headroom. I prefer the sound of the HD150 but it lacks something compared to the MKII HD100. I cant explain it. I just can't... get into it as much. And I dont know how to really describe this either but the classic chugging sound is much easier to obtain how I like out of the MKII as well. But the MKII also bottoms out easier and gets muddier on the low end where the HD150 stays tight and clean. So really I am just mixed up on this lol.

MKII is definitly a tube amp, the tube dynamics are there and if you push the power stage you get the power tube breakup. The tubes that come stock do sound pretty plain in comparison to my Trayor with Tung-Sols but they can be changed and Line 6 encourages people to experiment with different tubes.

So given the versatility in tone with the modeling, tubes (and various tubes brands), the better build quality, and just how sweet the head looks... the MKII seems like a no brainer to me. Even if I am still mixed up about the sound right now...either way its giving me more of what I want then my Traynor is. The only dissapointing thing (and this is specific to my situation) is my combo and extension are 4ohm's... my Traynor can handle going down to 2ohm but the Line 6 can't So no 4x12 for me for now... on that note I cant really use either my Combo or extension with the HD150 as it only takes 8ohm (my cab is 4)... I have been anyway though... oops.

[vcnyls]

I A/B'ed the Line 6 against the Vox Valvetronix modeling amp and found that I liked the Vox a hell of a lot better! Just bought an AD30VT and I love it. I strongly suggest you check out the Vox modeling amps before buying Line 6

Edit: Sorry, didn't see that you got them. Hope you enjoy!

[Bun-Bun]

I'm just renting. Haven't bought one yet.

Oh and forgot to add in my post above. Bottom line on the HD150 IMO is dont buy the head... buy a smaller combo for what it is.

[ieso]

I suspect you'll regret buying either amp. Bail out before you sink any $ into this.

 

I have a Spider IV right now and it sounds like ass -- more dissatisfying every day. Computer editing the sounds is just a more amazing way to discover the crap coming out of the speaker.

 

And the 'artist' presets are mostly a joke.

 

Seriously, my old PodXt is somewhat useful. Their new line of amps are just terrible.

 

You know what's in a Line 6 amp? This (see photo) + a budget transformer + speaker + particle board cab

 

 

nifty layout but this stuff is basically made like a $299 Walmart desktop (+ marketing-friendly tube)

 

 

pretty good software

 

Amazing marketing

 

junk hardware

[JilaX^]

But HD150 or Valve MKII? The biggest thing right now pushing me towards to the MKII is looks (and I hate that). Play pretty much all music but really leaning to metal here for this... play in my basement... no band yet though woudl like to soon. Considering Dual Rec or H&K Trilogy but do I really need a $2k+ head for playing in my basement... plan to use my Traynor combo speakers and its extension cab to hook up to the Line six (so 2 backless Celestion 70/80's and 2 backed Celestion 70/80's) Input?

 

 

If I were you, I'd just go for the Vetta.

Seriously, their tube amps are passable. But, you are joking yourself thinking you'll get the actual tube tone. Just jump for the Vetta, which is probably their best amp, imho. (And according to many others.)