Members guitarcapo Posted March 29, 2010 Author Members Share Posted March 29, 2010 BREAKING NEWS! Local idiot thinks he's pulling at fast one, gets butthurt and complains about being beaten at his own game. Film at 11. I'm trying to tell people that bidding earlier than 8 hours can make you subject to "shill bidding" because people can retract bids. I can't really draw pictures well to explain it any better. All this "snipers rule" cheering seemed to show up from people who don't get it and are all "butt-hurt" from not understanding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted March 29, 2010 Author Members Share Posted March 29, 2010 This rube wasn't sniping, by his own admission he was trying to make a different buyer pay a lot. He stuck his ass out and the seller (or another bidder) raped it. Serves him right. You didn't read the OP well. That's not what happened at all. Reading comprehension must be your own little hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sk8centilli Posted March 29, 2010 Members Share Posted March 29, 2010 yep...you're missing something.The guy shill bidding wasn't bidding with any intention of buying. He just wanted to milk as much as he could to get my final price to surface...and then cancel so that the bidding would sit exactly at my highest price...not where he started bidding and driving up the price with bogus bids. None of his bids were legitimate offers. (He backed out after he drove the price up but the auction didn't drop down to the price where he entered) He could well be just a friend of the guy selling the item.Google "shill bidding" and maybe you understand the practice better. But weren't you still willing to bid the price you initially submitted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members calarado Posted March 29, 2010 Members Share Posted March 29, 2010 GuitarCapo you didn't get schooled, you put the highest amount you were willing to pay down with the hopes of not having to pay it. A shill bidder or not a shill bidder you did not pay more than you were willing you just didn't a deal you were hoping for. Also, bidding with 40 seconds remaining is not announcing your intentions, it's sneaking in at the last minute and its exactly what I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Armchair Bronco Posted March 29, 2010 Members Share Posted March 29, 2010 How do you "announce your intentions?" How is bidding $235 five hours earlier any different? Please explain. I'm all ears.If you bid $235 five hours early, then you're giving 5 hours of free time to someone who is willing to pay $240. You're SURE to lose that auction.Sniping means waiting until the last possible moment to bid the maximum amount that you're willing to pay in the hope that someone else who wants the item even more either has his proxy bid amount set too low or doesn't have enough time to make a new bid.If you haven't figured this out already, then you have no business whining about eBay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pope on a Rope Posted March 29, 2010 Members Share Posted March 29, 2010 There aren't enough facepalms to express to you how you just aren't getting it. I get the item at a price I was willing to pay. What don't you get about that? Not everyone who uses ebay is on the prowl for a bargain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members randombastage Posted March 29, 2010 Members Share Posted March 29, 2010 You bid more than you were willing to pay otherwise you wouldn't be complaining.If you only bid up to what you're willing to pay the scenario you suspect unfolded won't matter, unless you think you are somehow entitled to getting it for less than you would be willing to pay. It's nice to win those but you have no right to expect them. Shill bidding is like unethical advertising hype, you either let it affect your estimate of an items value or you don't. If it affects some other buyers estimate of the items value then you lose to them and the item sells for what the market supported that day. If the shill bidding doesn't bring in a buyer then you go after it when it is re-listed. If the seller doesn't let it go for a price you or anyone else is willing to pay and continues to employ shill tactics then the item is worth more to him than the market supports and he keeps it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Armchair Bronco Posted March 29, 2010 Members Share Posted March 29, 2010 By the way, there's another auction site I use that has a totally different model. The site is GunBroker.com (yes, they sell guns on GunBroker.com since this is disallowed on eBay). The model there uses something called "The 15 Minute Rule". This means that the auction only ends (after its scheduled time) if there has been no activity for 15 minutes. But as soon as someone re-bids, then a new 15-minute clock starts ticking. This can continue indefinitely until someone finally wins. This model favors sellers...which is what auctions used to do prior to eBay. The eBay model totally favors buyers. Buyers put in amounts that they hope they DON'T have to pay. With proxy bidding, you might enter $200 (which is what you're willing to pay) but you might win the item for $175. Given the choice, if I were a seller, I would much prefer the "15 minute rule" model. If I were a buyer, the eBay model is much more attractive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members calarado Posted March 29, 2010 Members Share Posted March 29, 2010 Ok I'll go to Gunbroker when I sell and Ebay when I buy, huh? Snipers Rule! No spam por favor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Armchair Bronco Posted March 29, 2010 Members Share Posted March 29, 2010 Ok I'll go to Gunbroker when I sell and Ebay when I buy, huh? Snipers Rule! www.AudioVisualDeals.com Heh! I'm curious, though, how much more money sellers could make on eBay if sniping were effectively killed by having a "15 Minute Rule". As a buyer, you'd be stupid not to snipe, but as a seller, you want to get maximum value for your item, and sniping prevents buyers from re-bidding. Sure, you could make the argument that they should have bid more to begin with...but that's not how auctions worked for centuries before eBay came along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pope on a Rope Posted March 29, 2010 Members Share Posted March 29, 2010 I'm trying to tell people that bidding earlier than 8 hours can make you subject to "shill bidding" because people can retract bids. I can't really draw pictures well to explain it any better. All this "snipers rule" cheering seemed to show up from people who don't get it and are all "butt-hurt" from not understanding I get what your saying. I just don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members schiz Posted March 29, 2010 Members Share Posted March 29, 2010 Im with a majority of people on this. I understand - somewhat - what our OP is trying to say about the 8hr rule. I actually buy a boatload of crap off the bay and was unaware of the 8hr thing. I have to say though, bid what you can/will pay and be done with it. Check back after the auction has ended to see if you've won. If you sit and watch and auction down to the wire you are more apt to fall in love with said product and bid more than you originally wanted too. I bought a Vintage Ace strap like this recently. Auction was inside a day, I waited till there was less than 6 hrs on the auction and no one had bid yet. I placed a really low bid so I could see how many people were watching. I checked my email later that day and seen I had an invoice. I was like WTF is this. I thought surely I wouldnt have won it for $10, but I did.Bid what you can pay, and be done with it. RandyG where did that post go? I would of sigged that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sk8centilli Posted March 29, 2010 Members Share Posted March 29, 2010 You bid more than you were willing to pay otherwise you wouldn't be complaining. That's what I got out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members _pete_ Posted March 29, 2010 Members Share Posted March 29, 2010 Dude, I think you've misunderstood the fine art of sniping. Snipers (and I'm one of 'em) don't bid some ridiculously high amount. Instead, they try to *guess* what the minimum bid required to win would be, and then they wait until the last possible moment to make that bid. If an item has a current price of $200 and you're willing to pay $235, then instead of announcing your intentions, you bid $235 with only 40 seconds left in the auction. Nuttin' wrong with 'dat. I always snipe when buying but I wait until there are only 2 seconds left to bid. 40 seconds is too long. A lot of bidding happens in the last 10 seconds and I won't give anyone time to beat me. I win 99% of the auctions I bid on and always end up paying less than my max bid. The only way I lose is if someone put in a higher proxy bid. In that case, they can have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flyinbryan Posted March 29, 2010 Members Share Posted March 29, 2010 i always decide the max i want to pay for an item, and bid that much, with less than a minute to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mediocreplayer Posted March 29, 2010 Members Share Posted March 29, 2010 Threads like these make me realize why the field of economics is a huge failure. All auction analysis are based on Vickrey prices, which assume the bidders are smart enough to figure out what to do, how much to bid, etc. Threads like this demonstrate this assumption to be super false, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NITROHOLIC Posted March 29, 2010 Members Share Posted March 29, 2010 ebay LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dangordan Posted March 29, 2010 Members Share Posted March 29, 2010 No reason to bid until the last 45 seconds except to drive the price up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members schiz Posted March 29, 2010 Members Share Posted March 29, 2010 No reason to bid until the last 45 seconds except to drive the price up.I disagree. I will bid a ridiculously low bid on something that has no bids just to keep track of how many people are watching it. Those auctions for guitars that start at .99 are a prime example. Bid $5 and just follow it in my bidding section. No reason to watch it. Thats how I roll anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members satannica Posted March 29, 2010 Members Share Posted March 29, 2010 Damn- I'm about to ebay some stuff. By the sounds of it, shill bidders could be doing me a favour Why would someone shill bid though? Doesn't that mean they're then paying more for my stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members irishstu Posted March 29, 2010 Members Share Posted March 29, 2010 i always decide the max i want to pay for an item, and bid that much, with less than a minute to go. That's my approach too. Really annoying when the auction ends at like 4am though. And on that note, does anyone here know of any good free ebay sniping programs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twotimingpete Posted March 29, 2010 Members Share Posted March 29, 2010 I don't know if sniping is always the only way to go. on items that are pretty commonly sought after and rarely end up going for a very low price, sniping won't help you. you find yourself giving up because the pre-existing bid was too high. sometimes if you bid an hour before the closing, the other person will be the one giving up and you can get it for a few bucks less because you got there first. ever see that an item sometimes goes for X price but you can't seem to ever get it for that because someone else already bid that much, and you sniping only serves to raise the price for them? if you get there first then the auction won't be as good a target for snipers and you're the only one likely to get it for that uncommon price. in other words, getting the low price that sometimes a particular item goes for is "first come first serve", snipers will only serve to ruin the low price so that no one gets it. on items that have a pretty high interest level and usually sell decently well, I don't see any benefit to sniping whatsoever. on those items "first come first serve" might be a better policy. you bid it up with an hour left and the sniper isn't interested because he knows he can't get a low price on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knotty Posted March 29, 2010 Members Share Posted March 29, 2010 Copied from another thread.Quote:Originally Posted by ashasha And yeah, I had the same problem a few years ago with a camera. I have no idea why he bid so high because it wasn't worth nearly what he paid me, but after two weeks of half illiterate excuse after excuse he finally came through with the money.schismed:His name wasnt guitarcapo was it? Love it. I hope the OP gets screwed at every turn. How can you whinge that you got out manoeuvered? and manoeuvering you were - just not very well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members smorgdonkey Posted March 29, 2010 Members Share Posted March 29, 2010 ...and THAT is exactly why you snipe - so your desire for the product (and your desire's relative dollar amount) does not influence the bidding war (and doesn't set the table for sketchy behaviour). There is a psychology to an eBay auction...YOU JUST WON! No, you didn't 'win'...you bought. Many times, in the heat of the auction one will get caught up in their desire to have the item and go beyond what they wanted to spend. Then they have to pay for the shipping too. OUCH! When you bid a day in advance it gives the wishy-washys a chance to look around and see if they can get the item for less somewhere else and if they can't then they are back and willing to bid more on the eBay item. It just gives people too much time to consider things. It also sucks that eBay changed it's ways a year or two ago (or more?) so that you can't see who is bidding. That is simply shady. Figure out your max in advance, then put in your max on a snipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Annoying Twit Posted March 29, 2010 Members Share Posted March 29, 2010 What software or websites can be used for sniping on Linux? I looked at some online services, but they all required a fair chunk of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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