Seriously, why doesn't a Gibson Les Paul standard cost ~$1500

[Acid Test]

 

Why, yes I was. Great amps with a few mods: http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?t=2118282 And their little 5 watt V8 turned out pretty good as well: http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?p=20597125 Just goes to prove my point that you don't have to pay a fortune for a good product.

 

 

There is a real good point here in relation to Gibson. They have positioned their product as being better and worth more, eventhough it seems like it should cost much less to make. If they keep on the same path, their financial situation isn't likely to change. If they drop prices, then do they fall out of the elite realms? Sounds like their quality and the availability of better products for less won't support them.

 

There was a study done where somebody marketed a coffee and put it on the shelves in a red container for, let's say, $6 a can. It didn't sell. It was remarketed in a gold can with fancy designs and raised the price to $9 - it sold like crazy. Same coffee.

[Verne Andru]

 

There was a study done where somebody marketed a coffee and put it on the shelves in a red container for, let's say, $6 a can. It didn't sell. It was remarketed in a gold can with fancy designs and raised the price to $9 - it sold like crazy. Same coffee.

 

 

Exactly!

 

There will always be those who will choose to pay a premium for intangible "brand" benefits, but with the high quality of off-shore built "stuff" and dwindling disposable income, I suggest the upper end of the market is going to continue to shrink for the foreseeable future. Just as the sky-high market for "vintage" equipment plunged in the past few years, so too will the high-end take a pounding. It'll still be there - just be smaller with more competition.

[metallica_00]

It doesn't seem to matter that there's better stuff. Gibson has a stranglehold on the market through it's scale. If you mainly shop at Guitar Center and don't frequent Internet forums you will possibly never even see a Heritage or Hamer USA. Gibsons marketing is dominant.

 

I just don't see why people keep complaining. Buy a Heritage, a good Tokai, an Edwards, a Hamer etc. The options are there and there's a zillion types of guitars now. So many people are still obsessed with the branding and the look. If you want a REALLY good (and I don't buy into cheap Asian copies being as good) replacement for Gibson they are out there.

[GCDEF]

 

Exactly! There will always be those who will choose to pay a premium for intangible "brand" benefits, but with the high quality of off-shore built "stuff" and dwindling disposable income, I suggest the upper end of the market is going to continue to shrink for the foreseeable future. Just as the sky-high market for "vintage" equipment plunged in the past few years, so too will the high-end take a pounding. It'll still be there - just be smaller with more competition.

 

 

It's a pretty huge leap to go from Gibson charges a premium for their name to a $20 CL Asian knockoff is just as good.

[Willyguitar]

You seem to be a bit obsessed with Gibson, Hydrochloric.

 

There is much madness in the world of capitalism, and the madder it gets, the more the consumer wants to consume more.

[Alchemist]

If you are going to compare a USA standard strat or tele directly to a gibson..... it would match up to a Les Paul studio.... they cost pretty much the same, the studio is a little more, the difference can be attributed to carving the top and setting the neck....

 

an american deluxe strat with flame or quilt maple top is $2000.... compare that to a $2300 LP standard, offset the difference in construction

 

you really arent that far off

[smorgdonkey]

 

Interesting reactions. I'm in the trade and know what this stuff costs and cost-of-goods is probably close to the bottom of the list when it comes to what some companies charge for their merchandise. Sorry folks, there is no magic mojo to having a specific "brand" name on a piece of wood with metal bits. As long as the maker follows the formula, the end result is pretty close to being the same.

 

My reaction was to the $20 guitar that's "just as good".

 

 

If that's what you are arguing then just STFU.

 

If I've misunderstood you (which would require you misunderstanding what I had said to make you respond) then we aren't on the same topic anyway.

[bsman]

Sounds like that old SNL skit with Tom Hanks: Sabra Price is Right: "Is like Gibson guts -- same as Gibson, you buy now!

 

http://smashbeats.com/v3197978/sabra_price_is_right

[Verne Andru]

It's a pretty huge leap to go from Gibson charges a premium for their name to a $20 CL Asian knockoff is just as good.

 

What I didn't say was that the $20 Asian "knockoff" came out of the same factory in Asia that makes guitars for Gibsons. It is has a slightly different cut to the upper and lower bouts and a mahogany cap instead of a maple, but is otherwise a Gibson Les Paul. It has exactly the same neck profile, heel, heastock, etc. as the $4000 Les Pauls in my local guitar store.

 

When I took it into my luthier to have the headstock refinished [removing the old logo] he recognized the guitar immediately. The chain he does work for brought them in as their "house" brand and he did setups on a bunch of them that erroneously were shipped with "Gibson" and "Epiphone" truss-rod covers, etc.

 

And here's the other "rub" - quite a few of the products you buy that say "Made in the USA" have their sub-assemblies made off-shore and final assemblies done in the US - just enough to be able to "legally" put a MIA sticker on them. But not "ethically" enough IMHO.

 

My Les Paul knock-off retailed for over $500. The guy I got it from wasn't real bright, which is why I got it for $20.

 

[GCDEF]

 

What I didn't say was that the $20 Asian "knockoff" came out of the same factory in Asia that makes guitars for Gibsons. It is has a slightly different cut to the upper and lower bouts and a mahogany cap instead of a maple, but is otherwise a Gibson Les Paul.

 

 

Are you saying Gibson guitars are made in Asia? Really???

[Acid Test]

 

he recognized the guitar immediately. The chain he does work for brought them in as their "house" brand and he did setups on a bunch of them that erroneously were shipped with "Gibson" and "Epiphone" truss-rod covers, etc. And here's the other "rub" - quite a few of the products you buy that say "Made in the USA" have their sub-assemblies made off-shore and final assemblies done in the US - just enough to be able to "legally" put a MIA sticker on them. But not "ethically" enough IMHO. My Les Paul knock-off retailed for over $500. The guy I got it from wasn't real bright, which is why I got it for $20.

 

 

 

Verne,

 

Do you happen to have a picture? I have also heard about the offshore and final assemblies for items but not sure it included Gibson guitars.

[Verne Andru]

Verne, Do you happen to have a picture? I have also heard about the offshore and final assemblies for items but not sure it included Gibson guitars.

 

[Acid Test]

 

Thanks - $20 wow now that's a deal.

[m90guy]

Gibson also has to pay endorsments and advertizing. Those cost are passed on to you the consumer.

 

Gibsons are not made in asia. Whoever is saying this, if this is what they are saying, is a {censored}wit.

[Acid Test]

 

Gibson also has to pay endorsments and advertizing. Those cost are passed on to you the consumer. Gibsons are not made in asia. Whoever is saying this, if this is what they are saying, is a {censored}wit.

 

 

The way I read it is, the author is saying what is made in the USA and what is not is not as black and white as we think.

 

I have a Honda car that was made in the USA and may be more domestic than a Chevy with foreign made parts.

[Guitar Heel]

 

I have a Honda car that was made in the USA and may be more domestic than a Chevy with foreign made parts.

 

 

You are quite right. It's all about country of origin. Budweiser is no longer an American beer (thank god we don't have to claim it anymore), but all of its breweries are still in the same place. It's all about where the money winds up, as opposed to where something is produced.

[Verne Andru]

 

You are quite right. It's all about country of origin. Budweiser is no longer an American beer (thank god we don't have to claim it anymore), but all of its breweries are still in the same place. It's all about where the money winds up, as opposed to where something is produced.

 

 

Here's a funny little anecdote that I'm sure will get some pressures to rise.

 

I was teaching computer sciences during the 1980's in Toronto and 2 students who took one of my night-school courses happened to be the senior systems analysts for Molson's Canada [that's one of our largest breweries].

 

They enjoyed the course so much they invited me to their head office for a tour. As we were going through the brewing part they said something to the effect of, "...and here is our newest line, but you have to keep it secret until it's released. We are going to be selling [either Coors or Budwieser] in Canada and it's be bottled right here."

 

I queried them about the extra costs of putting in new tanks and such for the new beer and their response was "oh, no - it's all the same beer, we just put it in different bottles/cans and market it differently."

[smorgdonkey]

he recognized the guitar immediately. The chain he does work for brought them in as their "house" brand and he did setups on a bunch of them that erroneously were shipped with "Gibson" and "Epiphone" truss-rod covers, etc. And here's the other "rub" - quite a few of the products you buy that say "Made in the USA" have their sub-assemblies made off-shore and final assemblies done in the US - just enough to be able to "legally" put a MIA sticker on them. But not "ethically" enough IMHO. My Les Paul knock-off retailed for over $500. The guy I got it from wasn't real bright, which is why I got it for $20.

 

You are suggesting that 'Made In USA' Gibsons are not made in USA.

 

Anyone who wants to believe that-I've got a couple of bridges to sell you.

 

I'm not saying that every little part is made in USA but the wooden body/neck and assembly of those are done in the USA or they wouldn't be allowed to be stamped as such.

 

To suggest otherwise is ignorant particularly without being specific. If one doesn't know enough to be specific then they don't know enough to be spreading the story either.

 

...and if all the guy was asking was $20 then so be it but if you ripped the guy off because 'he wasn't the brightest' then hooray for you. Proud moment.

[bsman]

You all know how budweiser and having sex in a canoe are the same?

 

 

 

 

 

They're both {censored}ing close to water...

[Verne Andru]

 

...and if all the guy was asking was $20 then so be it but if you ripped the guy off because 'he wasn't the brightest' then hooray for you. Proud moment.

 

 

Boy, somebodies off their meds today.

 

He was asking $200 for the guitar, a small Randall amp and a heavy-duty gig bag. When we met I told him I was only interested in the guitar and asked him how much he would let it go for. He said $100 but I had to take the amp. I said I didn't want the amp. I told him [because it was the truth] that it was for my son whom I was trying to get off video games and I had no idea if he would play it or not. I told him [because it was the truth] that all I really wanted to spend was $50 - for the guitar only. He said okay if it was for a worthy cause [getting my son off video games], but only on the condition I took the amp. I said I didn't want the amp. He said if I wanted the guitar for $50 I had to take the amp - that was his bottom line, take it or leave it.

 

So I gave him $50 and went home with the guitar in the gig bag and the amp. I gave everything to my son. It sat in his room collecting dust for 4 months. Then one day he said - "{censored} guitar, I want to play bass." I said "okay, but I take the guitar back." He said, "go ahead, I'll never play it."

 

So he kept the amp [thank god], I got the guitar and gig-bag and he bought a bass. After 6 months of playing bass he said, "I'm bored with bass, I want to play guitar" and he went out and bought a really sweet Godin shredder.

 

So at the end of the day, the Les Paul indirectly accomplished it's task - got my son off video games - and I ended up with a pretty sweet little guitar for $50/3 [guitar, amp, gig-bag] = ~ $16.67. And the seller got a few extra Karma points for helping out.

[kherman]

 

People are willing to pay more. Consumer Surplus

 

 

 

Agreed.

Thus, the reason why I think the SGs, Vs, and Explorers are the better deal.

 

Really, the only thing my Explorer Pro is missing compared to an LP

is a carved top and trap inlays.

[liko]

 

Is there a real valid reason why a Gibson Les Paul standard shouldn't cost around $1500. Consider an American made Fender Stratocaster cost around $1100 new. Both are made in the USA, so shouldn't labor costs be similar? Are there extra costs that goes into a Gibson that aren't in a Fender? Labor or parts? Does one guitar really cost greater than $1000 to produce than the other? and why? I hope we can keep this thread somewhat serious to the point. Just thinking in the last couple of days about the written problems with Gibson and trying to figure this out.

 

 

Sculpted top

Bindings

Chambered bodies (do they still do this?)

Set Neck

Extra wound coil (cancel that compared to an HSS)

Extra control (but I would consider the 5-way wiring to be more labor-intensive)

Subsidation of burst finishes (Last I checked, all LP Standards were the same cost but a large number are bursts; Fender charged a few bux extra for bursts last I really looked)

Wood prices (Fender uses relatively less-expensive alder for bodies, and less of it per body; LPs use mahogany and maple for bodies and more of it)

Gibson Name (Fender cashed in most of their equity in their brand name by relying on it to sell crappy instruments until about 10 years ago; Gibson has yet to hit bottom though they're right where Fender was)

Consumer Demand (Fender's Strats and Teles are becoming a niche player in the southern rock/country genres, and they never really cashed in on the SuperStrat evolution. The Gibson handles higher gain cleanly, so it's been the go-to for a lot of mainstream genres besides C/W)

[rocknhard]

Buy all necessary components of the guitar itself. This includes a neck, headstock, tuners, body (either in the shape of a Gibson Les Paul or SG), pick-ups, pick-up rings, control knobs, control switch, guitar paint and input jacks. In searching for parts on any guitar hardware site, you may find other components that are needed (see Resources below).

 

Step

2Purchase all tools necessary to make the guitar itself. This may include saws, drills and drill bits, belt sander, soldering iron and clamps. If you already have a woodwork station in your garage, then you may already have all the tools you need.

 

Step

3Start with a design of the guitar you have in mind. For a Gibson Les Paul guitar, see the Resources section below for a link to a website with guitar design plans. But make sure you have an idea of what you want the guitar to look like before you start.

 

Step

4Draw on the front of the body of the guitar where you want the pick-ups to go. You may use the design plan above to make this determination. Once you've drawn it up, use a jig saw to cut the piece of the wood out of the body--but make sure not to go too deep, as you do not want to cut through the body.

 

Step

5Remove the pieces of wood from the pick-up holes you've cut. Next, plot out the design of the guitar on the body. If you're planning on a simple paint job, you may skip this step.

 

Step

6Start routing the wires for the body itself. If you're not sure where to go with this, look up an online Gibson guitar forum (see Resources below).

 

Step

7Drill all the holes now for the pick-ups, control knobs, bridge and control plate. Again, it is wise to consult an outside guide in addition to this one to ensure you do things right.

 

Step

8Paint the guitar body. Depending on the color scheme you're going for, this may be as simple as using one color and applying a couple of coats. If you're planning on a swirl design, you'll want to paint the outer edge with one color and the inner part of the guitar with another color.

 

Step

9Paint the guitar neck. If you prefer your guitar to have a natural wood neck, you can skip this step.

 

Step

10Sand the guitar paint and paint again as necessary. You want the guitar body to be completely painted and smooth.

 

Step

11Apply a clear coat of paint to your guitar. This will seal in your guitar's paint, ensuring that it lasts longer and looks shiny and great for many years to come.

 

Step

12Wire the guitar and place in all electronics. This is, of course, the most challenging step of the whole process, so check with the GIbson forum and the other resources provided below.

 

Step

13Apply the neck to the body. More than likely, you'll be using a bolt-on neck, so you'll need to screw the neck into the body of the guitar. Make sure to not screw it in too light or too tight--it should not be extremely stiff and should fit just right.

 

Step

14String the guitar and test out the electronics. If everything plays right, you've just built yourself a Gibson electric guitar for a fraction of the price that it would cost to buy it new.

[smorgdonkey]

 

Boy, somebodies off their meds today.

 

Oh...a 'meds' joke. I've never seen anyone use that before. I laid out 2 options, you only had to apply the one that fit.

[BoneNut]

Here's a picture of Les Paul's "log" - none too pretty, but it did evolve into the Gibson Les Paul: If you ever get a chance to see a picture of Leo Fenders first electric guitar, it's even rougher.

 

What's funny and wasn't mentioned, is that it was built at the Epiphone factory.

 

These discussions never go anywhere and no one seems to be willing to change their mind about anything anyway.

 

After laying down their hard earned cash, the Gibson camp (and some fan boys that don't even own one) will never accept that that any guitar that cost half or less than their prized Gibson can sound or play just as well.

 

On the other hand, I don't think anyone can convince the guys that have purchased less expensive guitars and modded them to their satisfaction, that their guitars aren't just as good as anything else available on the market.

 

Pride of ownership clouds everything up since we all our guitars.We even insult people we don't even know and that don't agree with us. All kinds of obtuse arguments and comparisons are made and it all breaks down to useless bickering.

 

We should just be happy we've found a guitar we're happy with and for the guy that has done the same, even though it wouldn't be our choice. I know all this but still fall into every one of these Gibson vs. inexpensive guitar threads.

 

No more. I won't post in this type of thread any more. Feel free to add your name to the list after mine.

 

Bone Nut