Adios Orange Drops?

[mutant_guitar]

On paper, solid state beats tube

 

Actually, the "tube sound" is a result of the predictable harmonic distortion introduced by the tube known as the three halves power law. It has to do with the tubes nature as a transconductance device. Most SS amps use bipolar junction transistors (BJTs), which are not transconductance devices, thus they do not introduce the same harmonic distortion. Field effect transistors (FETs) are transconductance devices and operate similarly to tubes. They do not follow the three halves power law, but they can be biased to operate on a certain point on their transconductance curve to produce harmonic content very similar to that of a tube. However, such a design is very labor intensive, and all but impossible to implement on a mass produced scale.

 

but what do i know...

[guitarcapo]

All caps sound the same to me...but those foil and oil ones look cooler. I mainly buy and use caps based on looks, spec tolerances and longevity...but mostly looks.

[Uma Floresta]

 

If I already had a good recording setup to make A/B clips, yes. Trying to compare subtle changes like a cap without A/B clips would be ridiculous, a much better study in psychology than sound. I do have some orange drops on hand, perhaps I'll swap them into a guitar and compare. Unfortunately the best I can do for recording is direct to the audio interface.

 

 

Even then, the difference in sound might be caused by minute differences in actual capacitor values, rather than due to the materials used. 23nF vs 21nF for example.

[Uma Floresta]

You know what sounds even better than expensive mojo caps, though? Ditching the tone control altogether.

[outtahear]

You know what sounds even better than expensive mojo caps, though? Ditching the tone control altogether.

 

Bet if you tried a set of the russian pio caps, with a 500k drop out pot for tone controls, you'd prefer it w/the tone circuit engaged.

 

I had some mallory 150s with the drop pots, and mostly used 'em out of circuit before the russian PIOs. They don't just shave off a bit O highs, seem to enhance tone a bit.

 

Again, I've converted lots of folks to 500+k vol pots, russian PIO caps, and '50s style wiring.

 

(Rock/blues/hard rock/indie types mostly. If you gots EMGs in a solid maple guit through the Buzzmaster 2000, look elsewhere:p)

[Uma Floresta]

 

Bet if you tried a set of the russian pio caps, with a 500k drop out pot for tone controls, you'd prefer it w/the tone circuit engaged. I had some mallory 150s with the drop pots, and mostly used 'em out of circuit before the russian PIOs. They don't just shave off a bit O highs, seem to enhance tone a bit. Again, I've converted lots of folks to 500+k vol pots, russian PIO caps, and '50s style wiring. (Rock/blues/hard rock/indie types mostly. If you gots EMGs in a solid maple guit through the Buzzmaster 2000 , look elsewhere:p)

 

 

The only pickup setting that occasionally needs some highs tamed is the bridge pickup - and that depends on your bridge pickup. In that case, a better solution is to add a mix pot to your neck pickup, and mix in just a little bit of the neck pickup with the bridge. It makes it sound fuller, rather than duller. And adding dullness is the function of typical guitar tone controls, regardless of what magic voodoo cap you're using.

[Meowy]

You know what sounds even better than expensive mojo caps, though? Ditching the tone control altogether.

 

Except for when yo uwant to roll down the tone. :poke:... But, I'll meet you in the middle with a tone bypass switch

[Uma Floresta]

 

Except for when yo uwant to roll down the tone. :poke:... But, I'll meet you in the middle with a tone bypass switch

 

 

A superior solution for that exists - a mixer pot for the neck pickup. Tone control = tone dullifier.

[59humbucker]

 

General rule of thumb: .047 = single coils .022 = HBs My Tele actually has a Minihum in the neck, but it brightens up nicely with the .047

 

 

what would be the usual in a p90 equipped guitar? Also what k value pot?

[outtahear]

 

what would be the usual in a p90 equipped guitar? Also what k value pot?

 

 

Early (or cool...) Gibson p-90 values were 500k vol. 250k tone .022 caps.

As for .047 for single coils, realize that most Fenders the last decade come std w/.022 caps.

Even (ooohhhhh...) Custom shop joints. The .1 and .047s were chosen for the same reason the neck position on an Esquire's a muffled rumbly mess-for doubling bass parts using guitar (Seriously..)

 

Even though most agree you can't hear subtle differences in tone while listening to amp clips in You Tube vids, (Cheap mics and compression..)

 

Check this:

 

[YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]

[Elias Graves]

I just put a Gibson 300k on my P90. I love it. Tames down some of the harshness. Really smoothed it out.

 

EG

[solitarycheese]

I wanted to 50s mod my Tele Deluxe, it has 2 P90s and 2 vol 2 tone controls (500k pots) to preserve the highs as I roll off the volume. Anyone know what caps I should be looking for?

[rog951]

Outtahear's commie caps are very nice. Just figured I'd offer that up.

[guitarcapo]

Speaking of which: I just bought this Magnatone 280 amp off ebay. It was over 50 years old with one owner who did absolutely NOTHING to it as far as service.

Anyway when I got it I was figuring that besides the filter caps and 3 prong electrical cord, I was probably going to have to replace lots of other smaller electrolytic caps. They must have dried out and weren't functioning either, right? Well I took it to a tech who just replaced 5 big filter caps and that was it. Totally silent. Fantastic solid tone though those four 50 year old speakers

(well...one tweeter was blown and DID have to be replaced...)

I don't know WHAT the spec is on all those components but I'm not changing a thing. It sounds so good right now I'm scared to do anything.

[Wyatt]

A superior solution for that exists - a mixer pot for the neck pickup. Tone control = tone dullifier.

 

Yes, all those country and jazz pickers doing Tone knob swells, they really sound dull.

[outtahear]

 

I wanted to 50s mod my Tele Deluxe, it has 2 P90s and 2 vol 2 tone controls (500k pots) to preserve the highs as I roll off the volume. Anyone know what caps I should be looking for?

 

 

Wire the controls up '50s style first...

 

http://www.wcrguitar.com/Install.html

 

Then see what you think...

[mutant_guitar]

 

 

 

They all sounded the same to me.

 

Pretty poor experimental design, too. He didn't check the capacitance values of the caps, there is no control for the variability in his playing, and he shouldn't tell us which cap he used in which clip.

 

A GOOD test would actually try to control for everything except the cap type. That means checking the capacitance values of each cap, making sure they are all as close to the same value as possible. Some sort of system to remove human variability in playing is a must, such as a recording of him playing once and playing the recording through each cap. If you want to be super technical about it, you can set up a circuit so the output impedance of the playback device matches the impedance of the guitar pickup. And lastly, the test should be blind. By telling us which clip corresponds to which cap, people will use that information to hear differences that don't actually exist. If the people responding to his video can do a better than chance job of identifying which cap is used in each clip, then a conclusion can be drawn.

[outtahear]

They all sounded the same to me. Pretty poor experimental design, too. He didn't check the capacitance values of the caps, there is no control for the variability in his playing, and he shouldn't tell us which cap he used in which clip. A GOOD test would actually try to control for everything except the cap type. That means checking the capacitance values of each cap, making sure they are all as close to the same value as possible. Some sort of system to remove human variability in playing is a must, such as a recording of him playing once and playing the recording through each cap. If you want to be super technical about it, you can set up a circuit so the output impedance of the playback device matches the impedance of the guitar pickup. And lastly, the test should be blind. By telling us which clip corresponds to which cap, people will use that information to hear differences that don't actually exist. If the people responding to his video can do a better than chance job of identifying which cap is used in each clip, then a conclusion can be drawn.

 

Or you could just buy a pair for $2-$20 and pop 'em in and let your EARS decide. Like you do with tubes. And speakers. And, pickups. And, strings.

 

(Holy {censored}ing {censored}-you an engineer??)

[mutant_guitar]

Or you could just buy a pair for $2-$20 and pop 'em in and let your EARS decide. Like you do with tubes. And speakers. And, pickups. And, strings. (Holy {censored}ing {censored}-you an engineer?? )

 

I don't trust my ears, and neither should you (not my ears, yours).

 

click the link in my sig to see why.

 

(yes, i'm an EE)

[Uma Floresta]

Yes, all those country and jazz pickers doing Tone knob swells, they really sound dull.

 

Miss'd the point'd

[outtahear]

I don't trust my ears, and neither should you (not my ears, yours). click the link in my sig to see why. (yes, i'm an EE)

 

Neat, but again I've actually tried a bunch of different caps over the years, and prefer these. In my guitars, with my pickups, through my cables, through my amps, w/my tubes/caps/iron, into my speakers, these work. Ain't just ears, but feel.

 

I also noticed that I used to run my tone controls all the way up before these, now I generally roll down to 7-8ish. Not because my pickups are harsh/toppy, they just sound better this way. I've heard this from others who've tried these, and I never mentioned it to them. Privately, or online.

Discovered that by playing.

No one told me that'd be a benefit, so it wasn't power of suggestion.

 

Got a meter for that??

 

(Hey the EE thing wasn't a dig-grew up w/a bunch;))

[mutant_guitar]

Neat, but again I've actually tried a bunch of different caps over the years, and prefer these. In my guitars, with my pickups, through my cables, through my amps, w/my tubes/caps/ iron , into my speakers, these work. Ain't just ears, but feel. I also noticed that I used to run my tone controls all the way up before these, now I generally roll down to 7-8ish. Not because my pickups are harsh/toppy, they just sound better this way. I've heard this from others who've tried these, and I never mentioned it to them. Privately, or online. Discovered that by playing. No one told me that'd be a benefit, so it wasn't power of suggestion. Got a meter for that?? (Hey the EE thing wasn't a dig-grew up w/a bunch;))

 

you wouldn't be suggesting your iron has an effect on your tone, would you?

[outtahear]

you wouldn't be suggesting your iron has an effect on your tone, would you?

 

Yes-emphatically.

 

 

This

 

NOT this

[Elias Graves]

Everything in the circuit affects tone.

 

EG

[mutant_guitar]

Yes-emphatically. This NOT this

 

I was thinking this:

 

which would be ridiculous even for TGP standards.