Which GFS for a classic tone that's brighter than Epi HOTCH(G)?

[GilmourD]

As I'm sure a bunch of you have seen, I recently got an Epi LP Custom. The thing rings beautifully unplugged but suffers from the typically muddy stock pickups, especially in the bridge.

 

The stocker is what they label as a HOTCH(G) and is apparently a 14Kohm beast that hurls mud (not that it being 14K is the only reason it's hot and muddy). It's very indistinct, which is disappointing since it's much clearer and a bit brighter sounding unplugged compared to my other LP, but the other LP's Duncan '59s allow some clarity through an amp.

 

Normally, I'd be all over BG-Pups.com asking Bryan to ship me another set of pickups for this... However, my current budget doesn't allow for that. In fact, I'm only looking to replace the bridge at the moment since that's what I use 90% of the time and the stock neck isn't THAT bad (infinitely better than the bridge).

 

So, which GFS out of those that come with gold covers would you suggest to replace this mud slinger? I'm thinking the VEH or the '59.

 

It would be especially helpful if you've also replaced the same Epi pickup with a GFS.

 

Thanks for reading my late-night ramblings.

[GilmourD]

Bump for the Easter crew.

[cratz2]

Hrmm. I have an older Korean Epi Studio that came with that pickup in the bridge. My feelings were about the same as yours. I thought the bridge was kinda horrible, but the neck wasn't bad... but I still replaced both of them. My stock pickups were black and I wanted either gold covers or zebra.

 

I first put in a set of Crunchy PATs I already had. I'd say they were definitely better sounding overall, both neck and bridge, but neither was what I really wanted in that guitar. I'd say they are roughly the vibe of a set of Dimarzio Super Distortions though I've never owned a Super Distortion in a Les Paul, only in strat bodies.

 

Then I bought a used set of Fat PATs. I'd say I definitely liked the neck pickup more than the Crunchy PAT neck. The bridge was a little more open sounding, but still quite a bit hotter than I really prefer. My point of reference are 57 Classics and Seth Lovers I have in other guitars.

 

Then I got a set of the Alnico IIs. I really like these pickups a lot, but they are not what I would call bright at all. Actually, they are relatively dark. That guitar still has the stock pots and caps except for one replaced volume pot. I haven't worried about replacing the pots or caps as I rarely play that guitar and when I do, I mostly play clean. I really think it sounds great for a dark-ish clean guitar, but for crunchy gain or Slash-ish lead stuff, it's simply too dark. And they are lower output than the Seth Lovers which are in turn lower output than the 57 Classics which are already pretty low output among humbuckers.

 

I know this post hasn't helped much.

 

Out of the stockers, the Crunchy, the Fats and the Alnico IIs, I prefer them in that order, least to greatest. But if replacing just the bridge pickup, honestly, there's no way I could specifically recommend any of them.

 

I'd look around for a used Duncan Custom 5 personally. I had that pickup in about 5 different guitars and it always sounded just how I wanted it to. Nice and growly, a bit on the bright end but rarely harsh. Sounds great with gain and pretty damn good when clean and I think I got it for $35 shipped about 3 or 4 years ago.

[ermghoti II]

VEH are way brighter than the V59s, and were on the top of my mind as I read the title. The Crunchies are very bright, and closer in output to your current set, the Fats are a bit more moderate in both categories. I prefer the VEH out of those three, but it depends what you're going for.

[IBDBB]

I don't think i have had a gfs pup yet that i hated.

But with that said, I would go with the 59', which i think is more versatile than the veh

[HanSolo]

I'd go with the V59 for the bridge and neck. I have a set in a semihollow LP copy and they sound very good. I orhginally had the 59 in the neck and a Crunchy Pat in the bridge. I did not like the Crunchy Pat at all.

[_pete_]

Try new pots/caps/wiring first.

[Elias Graves]

 

Try new pots/caps/wiring first.

 

 

This. I'm 2 for 2 at getting HUGE improvements in Epis with new guts.

The Epi pickup that's still there is a whole new beast with good pots. It makes a difference.

 

EG

[GilmourD]

 

Try new pots/caps/wiring first.

 

 

Even if they guitar's come stock with quarter-size pots and a switch that looks like a Switchcraft?

[theAntihero]

I really like the stock pickups in my standard, which i think are the same as yours, but they are so far the only ones ive liked.

 

I like the PAF Pro and its a bit brighter than the stock epi's while still sounding PAF-ish, i know its not a GFS but they can be had cheap. Im not sure that it comes with a gold cover though.

[GilmourD]

So, who makes the quarter-sized pots that comes in the Epi LPs, now? They look just like the Alpha pots that Jay sells.

 

http://store.guitarfetish.com/colespaupelc.html

[GilmourD]

Here's a pic of my control cavity. They look like Alpha pots but don't say Alpha on them. Apparently Epi does get some of their pots from Alpha.

[vintage clubber]

Of the GFS, I would say either the Alnico Classic II's or the Vintage '59's. Have you tried lowering that pickup?

[GilmourD]

Of the GFS, I would say either the Alnico Classic II's or the Vintage '59's. Have you tried lowering that pickup?

Yeah, I did. It was actually pretty high when I got it. It's still fairly muddy.

[_pete_]

 

Even if they guitar's come stock with quarter-size pots and a switch that looks like a Switchcraft?

 

 

Yeah I would still change them. The resistance values most likely vary widely from one to another.

If you have a multimeter it would be good to check and see what each pots resistance value is.

The size of the pot doesn't mean much. There are a lot of quarter size pots that are low quality.

I like CTS pots the best but even then,not all CTS are well made. They make many different pots for different applications.

The ones RS Guitarworks sell are very good but very expensive. I've had the best luck with the ones sold at Guitar Parts Resource.

[GilmourD]

 

Yeah I would still change them. The resistance values most likely vary widely from one to another. If you have a multimeter it would be good to check and see what each pots resistance value is. The size of the pot doesn't mean much. There are a lot of quarter size pots that are low quality. I like CTS pots the best but even then,not all CTS are well made. They make many different pots for different applications. The ones RS Guitarworks sell are very good but very expensive. I've had the best luck with the ones sold at Guitar Parts Resource.

 

 

I'll check them with my Fluke when I get home, but even if they're -20% off spec, that's still 400K, which is more than the 300K pots used in some LPs. This bridge pickup is uber muddy, well beyond the pot being off spec. Doesn't mean I won't replace the pots anyway, but I don't think they're the root of my problem.

[cratz2]

 

I'll check them with my Fluke when I get home, but even if they're -20% off spec, that's still 400K, which is more than the 300K pots used in some LPs. This bridge pickup is uber muddy, well beyond the pot being off spec. Doesn't mean I won't replace the pots anyway, but I don't think they're the root of my problem.

 

 

Keep in mind, most Gibson pickups are relatively bright... 57 Classics, BB1,2,3, BB Pro, 498, 490... those are all certainly brighter than the average humbucker.

 

I have the 57 Classics in one guitar and compared to the stock pickups in my Korean Epi, they are radically brighter. Not harsh, but nice and open sounding and airy. The Epis were just pretty much dull and lifeless. Not terrible, but not inspiring at all when played clean or with light or moderate gain. The 57s... I pretty much can't get a bad tone out of them.

 

I might even try 1 MEG pots if you're trying to brighten it up a bit but again, I'd probably just get some brighter used pickups. I'd still recommend the Custom 5 or the Custom Custom for the bridge and maybe a Pearly Gates, Jazz or Alnico Pro II, neck or something along those lines. These can almost always be found for $50 shipped. Someone had the Eric Johnson HBs for $45 shipped each. I've never used them, but I'd imagine they are bright but not terribly hot.

 

I also really like the Dimarzio 36th Anniversary bridge, but I don't have a neck pickup so I can't comment. It might be my third favorite HB behind the 57 Classic and the Seth Lover but they seem to usually go for $60 to almost $70 used.

[sleepeatplay]

Really it depends on your style, but I recently bought a Fat Pat (uncovered), and put it in the bridge of my Dillion. I really dig the tone of it. Great bang for the buck. Good hot output, yet still having good string clarity.

Also think about looking for a used Gibby pickup, You would be surprised.

Oh, linky for the Fat Pat kids. (gold cover). http://store.guitarfetish.com/alfatpafbohu2.html

[GilmourD]

OK, I just checked out my pots and they're all within only a couple percent of 500K, so the values of the pots certainly aren't the issue. Other than that, the taper of the pots seems smooth to me. In fact, I think they're just Alpha pots, like what GuitarFetish sells as upgrades. It's known that Gibson does use Alpha as a pot supplier for Epiphones sometimes.

 

It's just that the bridge is dark and then turns to mud with distortion.

 

I think I'm gonna go with the VEH since it's not far out of the vintage range, it's a bit hotter, and seems to be known for having goo treble response without sacrificing midrange and bass (and the other way around).

 

Worse comes to worse... I could always sell it used if I don't like it without totally losing my shirt. LOL

[xStonr]

I picked up a set of Tonerider Alnico 4 pickups for my Epi Wilshire that suffered from the same pickup disorder your LP has. These p/u s are clear and articulate also they were not very expensive either. They made a major improvement over the tone as I prefer my guitars a little brighter. They are doing the job amazingly. I couldn't be happier.

[IBDBB]

 

I picked up a set of Tonerider Alnico 4 pickups for my Epi Wilshire that suffered from the same pickup disorder your LP has. These p/u s are clear and articulate also they were not very expensive either. They made a major improvement over the tone as I prefer my guitars a little brighter. They are doing the job amazingly. I couldn't be happier.

 

 

where is the best place to get tonerider from?

[poolshark]

I have a Fat PAF and a Classic II in a new project of mine, but I'm not yet familiar enough to give a real review. The Classic II is a hair dark - could probably use some adjustment on my part - but flat nails jazz tones. The Fat PAF seems relatively hot, but well balanced. Depends what kind of classic tones you're looking for.

[lowbrow]

It's possible, but unlikely, that a 1 Meg pot might cure your problem. There's a free and easy way to find out if the stock pup is at all capable of what you want. Temporarily wire it direct to the output jack, bypassing all the pots. That's as bright as it will ever be and give you an idea...with height adjustments...if you can work with it.

[d_dave_c]

I liked the crunchy PAT in the bridge, but no the neck - but this was back when they were still called the Crunchy PAF - not sure if they've changed at all in that time. For some reason, I think Jay mentioned that all the pickups have changed a little over time.

[_pete_]

 

where is the best place to get tonerider from?

 

 

http://rhfactorguitars.mybisi.com/products/tonerider?pagesize=40