Gibson Faces Financial Questions.

[ExiledCrow]

How old is Henry J? Is he in the early stages on dementia or something?

[guitarcapo]

Did you guys know that they still make Deloreans?

 

Some guy a few miles from my house owns the company:

 

http://www.delorean.com/

[rslowr]

And now, tax trouble.

 

check out the comment at the end of the article:

 

jody.lentz States:

Posted on 4/12/2010 4:05 pm

the company's tax troubles are small potatoes compared to their debt and credit issues. The local articles take it pretty easy on Gibson -- read the Debtwire piece for the whole fugly truth: http://bit.ly/dDdHC8

 

Reading the article, I remember when my local music store, Wintersound, had to drop Gibsons.

 

Man, whatta mess.

[Edward]

I think on balance I'd prefer the company didn't go under due to people's jobs being at stake.... In any case, capitalism being what it is, while there are still as many fanbois of the brand around as there are (check how many people on this site alone, where the alternatives are so popular, are adamant that they would not consider a 'Les Paul' with the 'wrong' logo or headstock shape), there will be someone will buy the brand and IP and keep the guitars going. Maybe, just maybe, we could see the Japanese buy it out and produce an improved version of historic Gibbys.... I'm thinking along the lines of what Fender (ultimately american, I know) did with Gretsch...

 

Whatever, I doubt it'll make much difference to me personally - I don't think Gibson will be refocussing elsewhere than on the luxury product / lifestyle brand market that it currently caters to, well out of what I'm prepared to spend on a guitar.

[fatcatcubby]

 

oh lordy, unpaid taxes since 2006?? WTF is going on over there?

 

 

I would'nt blame it all on Herry. there's a reason most companies have moved overseas. over taxed and over priced insurance your forced to take. match Social security that the government robs. Expensive Health insurance you buy for your employees that isn't worth the paper its written on.

 

the government needs to turn around the other way so companies will come back to the USA and the ones already here can grow and create more jobs. If that were to happen, those 3000 dollar gibby's may be in the reach of more of us.

its no ride in the park at the top unless your a giant corp and have a Monopoly

[ExiledCrow]

Frankly, Gibson's prices have nothing to do (well, very little) to do with expense. If more of us COULD afford $3k Gibby's, those same models would suddenly be $6k because Henry WANTS the guitars to be luxury items.

[fatcatcubby]

 

Frankly, Gibson's prices have nothing to do (well, very little) to do with expense. If more of us COULD afford $3k Gibby's, those same models would suddenly be $6k because Henry WANTS the guitars to be luxury items.

 

 

I must not be reading you correctly. the guitar is the product that I thought paid for everything in the bussiness. wages etc.?

[edremy]

 

I must not be reading you correctly. the guitar is the product that I thought paid for everything in the bussiness. wages etc.?

 

 

He's commenting on the business model. You'd think that by lowering the prices of Les Pauls Gibson would sell more of them and vice versa, but that doesn't always work in practice. Dropping the price of a luxury good can make it seem less prestigious and thus drop sales- pricing it higher means it's even more desirable. Gibson doesn't really need the price up in the $5k range to cover expenses, but to build the illusion.

 

My last two jobs have been at private colleges, and there's been a *lot* of research on tuition rates and the effect on applicants. (Most unpublished, since it's all about competitive advantage) It's not uncommon for a college to drop prices and find that they get fewer people applying, while some of the highest priced (and frankly less than stellar) colleges get more applicants.

[Schtang]

He is just another business man - no different from anyone else. Love the Gibson brand. I have no problems with Henry.

[Alecto]

 

He's commenting on the business model. You'd think that by lowering the prices of Les Pauls Gibson would sell more of them and vice versa, but that doesn't always work in practice. Dropping the price of a luxury good can make it seem less prestigious and thus drop sales- pricing it higher means it's even more desirable. Gibson doesn't really need the price up in the $5k range to cover expenses, but to build the illusion. My last two jobs have been at private colleges, and there's been a *lot* of research on tuition rates and the effect on applicants. (Most unpublished, since it's all about competitive advantage) It's not uncommon for a college to drop prices and find that they get fewer people applying, while some of the highest priced (and frankly less than stellar) colleges get more applicants.

 

 

True dat. If offering lower prices and better quality were a winning combo, Hamer would have been bigger than Gibson and PRS by 1999, instead of retreating to custom shop status.

[neffrocks]

Here we go again. A bunch of guitar players/business experts. I'd say maybe 2% of you are half right with what you're saying. The other 98% know absoulutely nothing about this topic.

[fatcatcubby]

 

He's commenting on the business model. You'd think that by lowering the prices of Les Pauls Gibson would sell more of them and vice versa, but that doesn't always work in practice. Dropping the price of a luxury good can make it seem less prestigious and thus drop sales- pricing it higher means it's even more desirable. Gibson doesn't really need the price up in the $5k range to cover expenses, but to build the illusion. My last two jobs have been at private colleges, and there's been a *lot* of research on tuition rates and the effect on applicants. (Most unpublished, since it's all about competitive advantage) It's not uncommon for a college to drop prices and find that they get fewer people applying, while some of the highest priced (and frankly less than stellar) colleges get more applicants.

 

 

everything that works out in theory/on paper may not be true. but let me tell ya, if i see a 3000.00 gibby now going for 1500.00, i'll take 2

i'd like to have a 335 and a bb king but not for 3 grand each.

i've never looked at a guitar as a luxury idem, its more of a tool to me.

i'm sure i'll get many amens! on this one. would'nt you grab 2?

[JoeJazz2000]

I am a DebtWire subscriber and I reported this at the Les Paul Forum on March12. I did not post a link at the time because DebtWire is a hellishly expensive, password-protected news service. It even disables your browser's copy and paste function when its page is up. I was unaware of the FT story, provided by DebtWire. I was challenged, questioned fairly about the story, and dismissed, and then it died down. I didn't follow up, and I didn't note subsequent stories' headlines in the midst of DebtWire's 200-300 e-mails per day. I don't know any more than this. Gibson is a private company and I don't have access to its financial statements. I have no opinion on its financial condition.

 

This story was reported on 3/23, stating Gibson has hired advisors to negotiate with a steering committee of lenders regarding the technical default. The story states that lenders expect to see covenant violations when the financials are filed. This time I PDF'd the story and cut and pasted it below. I won't post it at the LPF.

 

 

Gibson Guitar hires financial advisor SPP Capital; loan agent forms steering

committee, sources say

Story: Gibson Guitar Corp recently engaged SPP Capital to help negotiate an amendment

with its loan holders, and possibly aid in a private capital raise, said two sources

familiar with the matter.

The renowned guitar maker has worked with SPP in the past. The advisory firm

helped place a USD 150m senior bank transaction and a USD 50m mezzanine

transaction for Gibson, according to SPP

[PlectrumPete]

Remember that the lenders in question are the banks which basically {censored}ed up the entire economy of the world.

 

They are looking for liquidity, Gibson is not, and doesn't have to give it to them.

 

This is totally unconnected with their pruning of their distribution and sales channel. Which is reportedly pissing off the dealers who hardly sold any anyway and distracted their attention, marketing money and reputation away from those who do.

 

It is also unconnected with the disgruntled employees. The guy is probably an arsehole. "Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world. Unreasonable people attempt to adapt the world to themselves. All progress, therefore, depends on unreasonable people."

[PlectrumPete]

 

everything that works out in theory/on paper may not be true. but let me tell ya, if i see a 3000.00 gibby now going for 1500.00, i'll take 2 i'd like to have a 335 and a bb king but not for 3 grand each. i've never looked at a guitar as a luxury idem, its more of a tool to me. i'm sure i'll get many amens! on this one. would'nt you grab 2?

 

 

No. If they have a track record of cutting prices, I'd wait.

 

And if the resale value goes down because the new price is dropping, I'd pass.

[fatcatcubby]

with a company like gibson, that makes and sells very expensive guitars.

Why would they need a loan in the first place?

The cost of doing bussiness in america must be pretty bad these dayz.

over taxed, over insured?

beans are a 1.50 a can and hotdogs are 3 bucks:thu: