Intonating bottom strings on a Strat - what's the secret?

[fretmonster]

Two Fender Strats here, two low E's that sound sharp past the twelfth fret. Both saddles are back as far as I can go with the springs on. Do I A) remove the springs, or B) cut the springs to get them far enough back. Thx

[Doctor Morbius]

I removed the spring on one of my partscasters Strats and it's still sharp.

[fretmonster]

I removed the spring on one of my partscasters Strats and it's still sharp.

Dang, that's a biatch. How about your other Fenders? Same thing?



I have a Brawley Strat that intonates perfectly. Don't get me wrong though, my Fenders ain't goin anywhere. I love the Fender sound even if I can't use the bottom string past the 9th fret.

[Doctor Morbius]

Dang, that's a biatch. How about your other Fenders? Same thing?

That's the only one. Seems like there's another one that has to be back almost all the way but only the one partscaster that is back all the way and still won't intonate.

[*BLEEP*]

Try lowering the action slightly on the low E string.

 

If that doesn't work, try a different string gauge on the low E and continue adjusting the action.

 

You may even try lowering nut slot for the low E string.

[fretmonster]

That's the only one. Seems like there's another one that has to be back almost all the way but only the one partscaster that is back all the way and still won't intonate.

Thank you good Doctor, I'm removing the springs tomorrow. It's been a tough week, got savagely violated on a car repair, had to retow the car to the dealership and am presently out $3,200. Always appreciate your kind words.

[fretmonster]

Try lowering the action slightly on the low E string. If that doesn't work, try a different string gauge on the low E and continue adjusting the action. You may even try lowering nut slot for the low E string.

 

 

 

Good advice for sure and much appreciated. I do keep my action just above buzz, but after a new nut, I may have just a tad of wiggle room there. Thx:thu:

[Doctor Morbius]

Thank you good Doctor, I'm removing the springs tomorrow. It's been a tough week, got savagely violated on a car repair, had to retow the car to the dealership and am presently out $3,200. Always appreciate your kind words.

OUCH! That's quite a beating in the dosh department.

[fretmonster]

OUCH! That's quite a beating in the dosh department.

Your telling me. Will be seeking some remuneration from the ass raper, but you know how that goes. A lot of aggravation and no guarantees.

Thanks again for the help fellas, off to see the sandman. Hasta manana.

[*BLEEP*]

...got savagely violated on a car repair, had to retow the car to the dealership and am presently out $3,200.

 

 

Let me guess... The automatic transmission or the supercharger went out in the Munstermobile?

 

 

[Doctor Morbius]

Best of luck.

By the way, only the low E is off on that one partscaster. The other strings intonate fine. Not sure if I made that clear or not.

[schoolie1]

CHeck your nut slots, If they're not cut properly, it can make the speaking length of the string a bit longer.

[Orange Jackson]

I have seen plenty of bolt on necks that are set crooked. So that is something to check. If it's leaning downward, it will shorten the distance between the nut and saddle on the bottom E string.



If it's not that, I've had very good success fixing intonation problems using the method below.

"Setting Intonation:
Once the guitar is in tune,
Fret the note at the 12th fret and compare that to the harmonic at the 12 (over the actual steal fret).
They should read the same, if not, you get problems.

(All on the 12th fret and 12th harmonic)
If the fretted pitch is higher then the harmonic, the string needs to be made longer.
You do this by tuning the screw on the saddle at the bridge.

If the fretted pitch is lower then the harmonic, the string needs to be shortened/ move the saddle towards the neck."

If that does not help, my guess would be that the bridge or nut is not installed correctly.

[mrbrown49]

Lowering the pups down a bit (I have mine at a little over 3mm I think) is key for setting up my strat to intonate well.

[Into Nation]

Lowering the pups down a bit (I have mine at a little over 3mm I think) is key for setting up my strat to intonate well.

 

 

What's the science behind that?

[mrbrown49]

 

What's the science behind that?

 

 

The magnets pull on the strings and pulls them sharp. The closer they are too the strings the more that happens. When you play up the neck the strings get progressively closer to the pups when you are fretting, so intonation can suffer in the higher register. Dropping the pickups down a bit minimizes that effect.

[Into Nation]

The magnets pull on the strings and pulls them sharp. The closer they are too the strings the more that happens. When you play up the neck the strings get progressively closer to the pups when you are fretting, so intonation can suffer in the higher register. Dropping the pickups down a bit minimizes that effect.

 

 

Makes sense...

[Flogger59]

The magnets pull on the strings and pulls them sharp. The closer they are too the strings the more that happens. When you play up the neck the strings get progressively closer to the pups when you are fretting, so intonation can suffer in the higher register. Dropping the pickups down a bit minimizes that effect.

 

 

^^This^^ It can also cause an oscillation in the pitch that gets faster the higher you fret.

[Superrust]

Lowering the pups down a bit (I have mine at a little over 3mm I think) is key for setting up my strat to intonate well.

 

 

This is what I have found to be the fix in the past as well.

[humbuckerstrat]

Most, if not all, of my guitars have that problem. Maybe a good pro setup would help.

[jrockbridge]

I remove the spring on the low E and move it behind the bridge and put the screw back. That way, the spring is on the guitar for safe keeping and it acts like a washer to get the screw out of the way of the hole on the low E when you change strings.

[linthat22]

I've noticed that since I've learned to properly intonate my guitars, I'm able to create heavy riffs!

[WRGKMC]

Having the pups too close will also make strings buzz at the strings normal height adjuatment. Then what a guitarist will do is raise the action to reduce the fret buzz. Then when the actions too high he adjusts the relief flat.

 

You see one adjustment being out can complicate the issue and fake someone out into making the wrong adjustments to fix an issue because of what you're hearing.

 

If you go to the Fender site, they give you the factory adjustments for the instrument. i have them all memorized because I build and repair instruments. 90% of the instruments I set up were because of techs monkeying with adjustments or they failed to make the proper adjustments after changing string gauges, or normal wear and tear.

 

Do's and Donts.

 

1. You cant get accurate intonation adjustments with worn frets. Too many notes will be off. The flat frets will be sharp, the crowned note will be flat in comparison.

2. Necks arent supposed to be dead flat. The worst thing for tone, tuning, and fret buzz is a deas flat or back bowed neck. You also wind up having to adjust the height too high and the upper registers wind up being too sharp.

The rod is the counter balance to the 100+ lbs of string pull.

 

I'll throw out one of my trade secrets that will help. Slack the low E string. Take the other strings, hold down the first fret and last fret of each string. Pluck the string at about the 7th fret. Then adjust the truss so the string just clears all frets. Do this for the 5 strings. Then tune your low E string back up and chech them again. You should barely clear all frets.

 

Second check. Hold down the very last frets. then pluck the strings at the 7th frets. The nut should be high enough to clear all frets.

 

3. Next adjust the height of the low E using a small ruler that has increments of 64ths. If you dont have one, get one at a local hardware store. measure between the 12th fret and the bottom of the low E string. Set the height to 5/64ths. Do the same for the high E and set it for 4/64ths. The rest of the strings should be adjusted with a radius gauge that fits under the strings. You can pick them up a Stuart McDonalds. Use a radius gauge that matches your neck. Strats are usually 9.5. Put it close to the bridge and bring it up under the strings, then adjust the remaining 4 strings so they all buzz equally above the gauge.

 

After those two adjustments, you adjust the pups to specs, Then and only then try to do your intonation. Doing so otherwise is like pissing into the wind, you arent going to get it right.

 

5. Having a set of feeler gauges, Radius gauge, and ruler should be used periodically on your instrument. Having a straight edge and using the feeler gauges to check the relief is the other way to go too. It should clear the 5~9th frets using a .006~.012 feeler gauge when the straight edge is laid on the frets with the instrument tuned to pitch sitting in the playing position.

 

6. Lastly, I'll throw these in there. Having level, crowned, and polished frets is critical to having great intonation. Learning how to level and crown frets is not that hard and can save a guitarist thoushands over his lifetime. Its something you should learn to do.

 

So does a good brand of strings that are manufactured consistantly to give you a great setup. I can name about 6 brands that are a complete fail for this. I can also name about 5 brands that are really consistant to where your intonation isnt different every time you change the strings. For a quickie, I's say Boomers, Sfarzo, A'Aquisto are on the top of my list for consistant manufacturing quality and set up really well.

 

I could go on and on here about all the possible issues that can cause problems, and how to go about fixing them, but since this is a strat, Go to the Fender site, and adjsute the instrument to exact factory settings. Then if you still have a problem you can PM me and I'll be happy to help you walk the rest in if it doesnt come up better than it was. Do get a radius gauge, Ruler, Feeler gauges, and Straight edge. They are tools yoiu will use the rest of your life playing and should be as important to you as a guitar cord and amp for sounding really good. I cant overstress how much better a well setup guitar plays. Even a guitar thats out a littel can start sounding super sour and if you dont use the proper soecs as a guidelne for getting it back in, you wind up going to the wrong adjustments to fix it.

 

In closing, I can play any guitar thats has a littel high action, bulky neck, etc. If the intonations dead on and doesnt go out of tune when the frets are bent, I'll quickly adapt myself to the instrument.

 

If I try to adjust the instrument to my own preferences, the instrument will usually develop other issues wacking out the tone, instrument playability, and intonation. All those greatly impede my playing ability. Even if its only a littel its a playing distraction that neednt be there.

[fretmonster]

Let me guess... The automatic transmission or the supercharger went out in the Munstermobile?

That made me laugh, thanks for that.

PS Thank you all very much for the excellent posts - very informative, you've given me some great ideas. I did go ahead today and just remove the springs on the low E and A, and also took the new nut down quite a bit. I actually got it dialed in, and it sounds great. It does look a little weird with the A and E saddles all the way back however. That's the older one (93 Fender Squire Series), with my new knowledge will now take another look at my 2003 Custom MIM (acquired from sponsored artist).