Nitro over poly CS Strat?

[enuenu]

I am thinking of getting one of these

CS '66 Firemist Silver Strats. I have seen other examples of this metallic finish and it seems that fine cracks throughout the body finish are a characteristic. Not sure how they made it crack.

 

The finish is stated as nitro. I wonder whether it is nitro over a poly coat, therefore effectively making it a poly finished guitar? Not sure how this finish will age. Will big pieces fall off or will it wear down? Does it have the breathability of a nitro finish that many seem to think is important?

[dogtownmax]

 

I am thinking of getting one of these CS '66Firemist Silver Strats . I have seen other examples of this metallic finish and it seems that fine cracks throughout the body finish are a characteristic. Not sure how they made it crack. The finish is stated as nitro. I wonder whether it is nitro over a poly coat, therefore effectively making it a poly finished guitar? Not sure how this finish will age. Will big pieces fall off or will it wear down? Does it have the breathability of a nitro finish that many seem to think is important?

 

 

well, the description is "...it's true to the specs and style features of the 1966 including the large headstock and C-shaped neck profile, and it features a silvery nitrocellulose lacquer finish and a 3-ply parchment pickguard..."

 

no mention of poly.

[enuenu]

Thanks, I see a lot of minor differences in specs across the Web with Fender CS guitars. I recall reading somewhere that these Fender distressed metallic finishes have a poly undercoat. Can't recall where though.

[paul44]

FWIW I stripped the body of my AVRI 57 Strat which had the much vaunted 'nitro' finish.The top colour came off very easily with acetone,but there was still about 1.5mm of hard plastic shell before you got to the wood.

 

I'm sure someone on the many Fender forums could give you an answer.

[soundcreation]

One of the things that bugs me about fender. They just neglect listing info like that.

 

Forget terms like "breath ability" And think more in terms of over all thinness of the finish ...thinner is better no matter what the finish. So I'd take a thin nitro over poly, over a poly over poly, any day.

 

I have 4 nitro only guitars. I have 4 poly guitars. The nitro will not "fall off". If you are particularly violent with your guitars nitro will chip easier. But it's also way easier to fix. Nitro will "age" in terms of fading. Some like the look, some don't. I do. Looks way nicer than old poly in my opinion.

 

Personally for that kind of coin I could show you much nicer guitars with all nitro finishes over unsealed wood for around the same price and even cheaper used. For example several japanese makers such as Navigator and Van Zandt.

 

But if you are really into fender I'm sure that would be a great guitar. It bloody well better be for 3.5k.

[Ratae Corieltauvorum]

All pre CBS Fenders were nitro over a poly based undercoat, s'just the way Fenders were built

 

That {censored}ing finish checking looks appalling:facepalm:

 

Sometimes Fender shoots n scores, sometimes it plain misses:facepalm:

[soundcreation]

 

All pre CBS Fenders were nitro over a poly based undercoat, s'just the way Fenders were built That {censored}ing finish checking looks appalling:facepalm: Sometimes Fender shoots n scores, sometimes it plain misses:facepalm:

 

 

Oh yeah....I didn't zoom in on those photos. That's a weak effort.

[C-4]

Even Gibson, who boasts haughtily of using nitro finishes on their guitars, has added so much plasticizer to the nitro mix, that the finsih is just plain aweful. It comes off in thick, large, gooey masses when stripped. It stifles the guitar from breathing and vibrating the way it was intended for a nitro finish to allow. Correct nitro finishes are far thinner, eventually sink into the wood and almost act as a natural "skin" to the wood after aging out.

 

Still, a guitar with a poly finish, when done correctly, can be a breathing guitar with great tone and sustain. It all depends on how it's done, with what quality finish, and of course, the talent of the spraying artist doing the finish work.

 

Don't expect THAT type of quality on most american guitars today.

[Ratae Corieltauvorum]

 

Even Gibson, who boasts haughtily of using nitro finishes on their guitars, has added so much plasticizer to the nitro mix, that the finsih is just plain aweful.

 

 

My 82 Les Paul Deluxe had an incredible thickness of finish, plain damn awful, even tho it was nitro-ish

[enuenu]

I guess that many of the comments made are a good argument for heavy relics where a lot of the wood is totally exposed. Then it can really breathe I guess. Tone above all else for me, but heavy relics are pricey and a bit crap to look at in many cases to me.

[soundcreation]

 

My 82 Les Paul Deluxe had an incredible thickness of finish, plain damn awful, even tho it was nitro-ish

 

 

What about those new sammy hagar les pauls? The advertise those as around 1.5 mils thick. That is pretty thin, regardless of how they are mixing it. I doubt you'd find ANY company that can shoot poly finishes that thin.

 

Really I don't care though. I buy japanese anyway and they know how to shoot nitro so thin it'll crack if you breath on it wrong.

[Ratae Corieltauvorum]

 

What about those new sammy hagar les pauls? The advertise those as around 1.5 mils thick. That is pretty thin, regardless of how they are mixing it. I doubt you'd find ANY company that can shoot poly finishes that thin. Really I don't care though. I buy japanese anyway and they know how to shoot nitro so thin it'll crack if you breath on it wrong.

 

 

1.5mm? Thats thick....sue sure you don't mean 0.001mm?

[soundcreation]

 

I guess that many of the comments made are a good argument for heavy relics where a lot of the wood is totally exposed. Then it can really breathe I guess. Tone above all else for me, but heavy relics are pricey and a bit crap to look at in many cases to me.

 

 

Really though, before finish you want to worry more about nice resonant body wood. The thinnest finish in the world isn't going to mean {censored} on a piece of dead wood. And a great resonant body isn't going to suffer that much under a finish like the strat you are looking at. So you shouldn't be obsessing over it.

[soundcreation]

 

1.5mm? Thats thick....sue sure you don't mean 0.001mm?

 

 

no I mean the measurement of mils as in to measure paper thickness. Different from mm.

 

http://www.referencedesigner.com/cal/cal_04.php

 

so 1.5mils is .0381mm

 

thin.

[Ratae Corieltauvorum]

 

no I mean the measurement of mils as in to measure paper thickness. Different from mm. http://www.referencedesigner.com/cal/cal_04.php so 1.5mils is .0381mm thin.

 

 

OK, thats ten thousandths in engineering term and at 0.0015 that is very thin, warmoth offer 0.012", so thats 10 times thinner

 

 

I'd like to see one, apart from the fact it's been hit by the ugly stick

[soundcreation]

 

OK, thats ten thousandths in engineering term and at 0.0015 that is very thin, warmoth offer 0.012", so thats 10 times thinner I'd like to see one, apart from the fact it's been hit by the ugly stick

 

 

LOL...true...that chicken foot headstock is strange.

 

I don't know. I'm no expert at this at all. All I know is what I've read. And I've debated with people here who claimed to spray poly thinner but never seen any proof because they've never provided any sources, just their word. And companies like PRS, Suhr and Anderson never seem to list how thick their finishes are. And they are suppose to be the best. I give gibson credit for saying how thin that guitar's finish is, so unless they are lying I kind of have to go with their numbers over other peoples claims. And my experience with my top end japanese guitars shows me that nitro is thinner. And I have a greco poly with an extremely thin finish as well....just not quite as thin.

 

I will also say this once again so as to try and prevent the inevitable flame war...

 

At the numbers we are talking the difference will basically be zero. I mean a 1.5 mil nitro is not going to make noticeable difference over a 2.0mil (or whatever) poly.

 

I think if you go back to how this whole argument got started in the first place it was because people were wanting the thinner finishes of the 50's and 60's as compared to the gooped on extra thick poly of the 70's and 80's. From that perspective it's easy to see why people believed nitro was better. They'd never seen a thin poly finish before.

[metalheadUK]

Really though, before finish you want to worry more about nice resonant body wood. The thinnest finish in the world isn't going to mean {censored} on a piece of dead wood. And a great resonant body isn't going to suffer that much under a finish like the strat you are looking at. So you shouldn't be obsessing over it.

 

Surely all wood is dead once the tree is cut down?

 

I've been poking a Srat here with a pointy stick for the last 20 minutes and it hasn't moved an inch....seems pretty {censored}in' dead to me!

 

[soundcreation]

Surely all wood is dead once the tree is cut down? I've been poking a Srat here with a pointy stick for the last 20 minutes and it hasn't moved an inch....seems pretty {censored}in' dead to me!

 

Ya got me!

 

Would you believe me if I told you my SG got up and went out for a bite? Talk about mojo.

[cobberdig]

Seriously if you have a budget of 3.5K why don't you figure exactly what it is you want (timbers, neck profile, p/u config, finish etc) then find a reputable luthier to build it?

[Belva]

Got news for all of you. Way back in the day, Fender used a sealer called Fullerplast. And they've been using that or a facsimile all along. If you think you're getting an all nitro Fender guitar, well they just don't exist. Unless you have something way early, like made in the fifties. And if you're crazy enough to refinish one of those, many at this forum will hunt you down and whack you with a wet noodle!

[Ratae Corieltauvorum]

 

Got news for all of you. Way back in the day, Fender used a sealer called Fullerplast.

 

 

Not used til about 63, and to all intents it's a poly based sealer

[Yogi_Sizzle]

 

Got news for all of you. Way back in the day, Fender used a sealer called Fullerplast. And they've been using that or a facsimile all along. If you think you're getting an all nitro Fender guitar, well they just don't exist. Unless you have something way early, like made in the fifties. And if you're crazy enough to refinish one of those, many at this forum will hunt you down and whack you with a wet noodle!

 

 

+1 Fender Has been using that poly-based sealer since the early 60s. So many people make such a big deal about that undercoat, when many of the tones people chase were cut with guitars with that very same undercoat.

[Elias Graves]

Dead wood doesn't breathe.

 

EG

[Prages]

 

Dead wood doesn't breathe. EG

 

 

Live wood doesn't breathe either.

[Elias Graves]

Live wood doesn't breathe either.

 

True. But leaves do.

 

EG