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Poor man's bassman

narc86

By narc86
in Electric Guitars

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the_bleeding Newbie

the_bleeding

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The lower-watt versions of those heads are killer for guitar - even the silverface ones. They're all hand-wired with great components that beg to be modded. An awful lot of amp for under $500.


My understanding is that the later 70s versions had a different design that didn't sound as good for guitar. And of course since then they've slapped the name on all kinds of crappy stuff.

 

 

Lower wattage? The ones i posted are all 50 watts. They dont go lower than that. There is a bassman 100 out there (silverface, probably ultralinear) which would be loud as {censored}, but i didnt post it. And theyre ALL killer for guitar. And all AMAZING mod platforms. Most amps out there are offshoots or modified offshoots of the old 5f6-A bassman (tweed, TMB tonestack), and all the bassmen are variations on a theme. So any of them can be modded into almost aything, its amazing. Its half the reason i chose the design as a platform for my amp build.

 

.And theres like 8 bagillion different bassmen.

 

Off the top of my head you have like 3 types of Tweed (bax, tmb, and single tone), bunch of Blonde, Brownface (i think?), many Blackface types, Silverface Drip Edge, Silverface, Silverface Ultralinear...

 

The silverface ultralinears (later 70's as you say) are a bit stiff because they went overkill on the negative feedback. As far as i understand it, the silverface drip edges are just like old blackfaces. And yeah. Fender probably has more versions of each amps than they have lines of amps.

 

But yeah, it stands, they're ALL great for guitar. And lots of them have a very marshally crunch to them.

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riffy Newbie

riffy

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I said the JCM
preamp
was different. Their is more in common between the SLO and JCM than JMP and JCM.


Power tube tone is highly over-rated. I doubt anyone could pick out which Marshall has EL34's, which had 6550's and which has power-beam 6CA7's on a recording. If anything they have a different "feel" for the guitarist but their tone affect is nuanced. Guitarists make a much better deal about this than amp builders do. Even Ken Fischer, who designed down to the slew rate of his wire thought it the emphasis on power tubes was overblown, as long as they were curve corrected right.

 

 

 

 

Oh my goodness! Someone has it right on here!

I find that poweramp tubes do NOT really contribute that much to the sound no matter what anyone else says. They DO however contribute to the feel.

Amp manufacturers and tube manufacturers have over hyped this aspect of tube amps for FAR too long.

 

Good on ya Wyatt!

 

Gary

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the_bleeding Newbie

the_bleeding

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Oh my goodness! Someone has it right on here!

I find that poweramp tubes do NOT really contribute that much to the sound no matter what anyone else says. They DO however contribute to the feel.

Amp manufacturers and tube manufacturers have over hyped this aspect of tube amps for FAR too long.


Good on ya Wyatt!


Gary

 

I'd say it depends on how you drive them.

 

As an example, in high preamp gain applications, i will completely agree with you. You tend to run your poweramp clean, so bigger power tubes might lend themselves to more or less "open" sound, but not giant tone change.

 

But they way i run them, which is to basically blow them apart, i hear quite a difference. I use 6550's for their fog when theyre driven hard. No other powertube quite does that.

 

Its all in how you design your phase inverter to hit the tubes. I make mine hit my tubes hard... most amp manufacturers rarely do. Lots of fun :).

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Belva Newbie

Belva

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Silverface Bassman 50's are as good as any amp out there. Five bills gets you a reliable head that loves pedals & runs just about any 4 or 8 ohm load known to mankind. Run a 16 ohm load and you're fooked after about 50 hrs.

Shop a bit and you can find 'em cheaper, but in what kind of condition?

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Crimson_Raven Newbie

Crimson_Raven

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I think you were the only one......


 

 

 

I know I was, it was my poor attempt to try and feel less lonely about being mistaken before.

 

I've never heard a silverface bassman with a guitar, though. What type of cab would one of you run that through?

 

And Spike Li has a point. Those pedals actually sound pretty amazing.

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riffy Newbie

riffy

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I'd say it depends on how you drive them.


As an example, in high preamp gain applications, i will completely agree with you. You tend to run your poweramp clean, so bigger power tubes might lend themselves to more or less "open" sound, but not giant tone change.


But they way i run them, which is to basically blow them apart, i hear quite a difference. I use 6550's for their fog when theyre driven hard. No other powertube quite does that.


Its all in how you design your phase inverter to hit the tubes. I make mine hit my tubes hard... most amp manufacturers rarely do. Lots of fun
:)
.

 

I have to admit... I am a high gain kinda guy. Although, I do like the exploding small amp sounds from time to time!

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Belva Newbie

Belva

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I have to admit... I am a high gain kinda guy. Although, I do like the exploding small amp sounds from time to time!

 

 

Get a 12" patch cord. Jump the two channels together and plug your guitar into one. Play with the 2 channels and get some serious gain, cheap. Works on the Bassman and any other 2 channel, non reverb Fender amp. Not sure about the trem amps.

http://schematicheaven.com/mods/channelbridgingmod.htm

More detail.

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Wyatt Newbie

Wyatt

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Lower wattage? The ones i posted are all 50 watts. They dont go lower than that. There is a bassman 100 out there (silverface, probably ultralinear) which would be loud as {censored}, but i didnt post it. And theyre ALL killer for guitar. And all AMAZING mod platforms. Most amps out there are offshoots or modified offshoots of the old 5f6-A bassman (tweed, TMB tonestack), and all the bassmen are variations on a theme. So any of them can be modded into almost aything, its amazing. Its half the reason i chose the design as a platform for my amp build.

 

 

I think he was referencing the Bassman 45-50 watter as "lower" compared to the ultralinear Bassman 70. The Bassman 100 and the UL Bassman 135 were derivatives of the Super Bassman (4x6L6GC)

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Wyatt Newbie

Wyatt

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I'd say it depends on how you drive them.


As an example, in high preamp gain applications, i will completely agree with you. You tend to run your poweramp clean, so bigger power tubes might lend themselves to more or less "open" sound, but not giant tone change.


But they way i run them, which is to basically blow them apart, i hear quite a difference. I use 6550's for their fog when they're driven hard. No other powertube quite does that.


Its all in how you design your phase inverter to hit the tubes. I make mine hit my tubes hard... most amp manufacturers rarely do. Lots of fun
:)
.

 

I fully concede power tubes have their tonal quirks and breakup tone that makes them start apart. My argument is they stand out primarily in side-by-side tests. They just aren't something anyone can just pick out in a recorded, engineered and produced track without a reference.

 

I feel they are OVERemphasized. It's a "can't see the forest for the trees" thing. Heck, I don't even think the differences between types of tubes can overcome the tonal variety offered from manufacturer to manufacture, even on the same tube.

 

The assumptions that people make about power tubes because of the historic amps they are used in are laughable.

 

Now, speakers on the other, can change everything.

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Edge11 Newbie

Edge11

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I fully concede power tubes have their tonal quirks and breakup tone that makes them start apart. My argument is they stand out primarily in side-by-side tests. They just aren't something anyone can just pick out in a recorded, engineered and produced track without a reference.


I feel they are
OVER
emphasized. It's a "can't see the forest for the trees" thing. Heck, I don't even think the differences between types of tubes can overcome the tonal variety offered from manufacturer to manufacture, eve on the same tube.


The assumptions that people make about power tubes because of the historic amps they are used in are laughable.


Now, speakers on the other, can change everything.

 

I've never seen it that way, they add or subtract a little bit of mids and like the other guy said, they affect feel more than sound.

Agree'd on speakers.

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Prages Newbie

Prages

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I've never heard a silverface bassman with a guitar, though. What type of cab would one of you run that through?

 

 

'72 Silverface Bassman 50 into an Avatar 212 cab using a Barber Direct Drive for dirt.

 

SQGjNktRiHA

 

And clean:

ac-Je6OKSSo

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Jersey Jack Newbie

Jersey Jack

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Tweed Bassman RI's $500-800.

 

 

Hmmm....Where, exactly, did you see these amps in this price range? They go for $1400 or so new, and I rarely see any for sale used (there are none on eBay right now). When they do show up used at GC for example, they are usually pretty close to $1000, or more.

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Mel Cooley Newbie

Mel Cooley

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You can do a used tweed Bassman RI combo for $500-$600. If you're lucky you can score a really early RI with the solid pine cabs and the ground switch hooked up (yes, it still comes in handy for noise reduction in some oddly wired places).

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