Lets Do this RIGHT. The Official Page Vrs. Clapton Battle.

[CoqBelliqueux]

Maybe he was just completely off his head when he recorded it? I like to think so.

My first thought was : "I know they were rushed in the studios back then, but damn, a second take, please".

[Preacher]

Page = more creative; better composer. HORRIBLE live. Clapton = better player; at his best live while being pushed. Overall, it's a draw.

Wow, now granted he was ATROCIOUS when he was wacked out of his mind, but did you see the clips posted earlier? They aren't *perfect* but I would go so far as to say they aren't close even to a lower-case "horrible". I'm quite fond of his playing in those clips actually.

[DaveGrima]

Based on this, you're saying it's apples and oranges again.

No actually Page is a an apple and Clapton is a moldy rotten orange rind in a dumpster. When told about the Clapton is God graffitti Clapton said something like "Yes, quite right" Page is married to a Brazilian woman and does a lot of charity work for Brazilian orphans and stuff. Clapton is an arrogant racist who does Charity work for a Rich rockstar Drug rehab center on some island. Page wrote heartbreaker, whole lotta love, since ive been loving you, when the levee breaks, etc, and countless other original innovative takes on blues rock. Clapton never wrote anything that rocked. He just rehashes old blues standards cuz hes this old Robert Johnson blues man wannabe.

[DaveGrima]

[quote=JoeFender;40018950The lack of respect by Clapton haters is petty jealousy and envy.

Yeah were all jealous. . .thats it. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[JoeFender]

No actually Page is a an apple and Clapton is a moldy rotten orange rind in a dumpster. When told about the Clapton is God graffitti Clapton said something like "Yes, quite right" Page is married to a Brazilian woman and does a lot of charity work for Brazilian orphans and stuff. Clapton is an arrogant racist who does Charity work for a Rich rockstar Drug rehab center on some island. Page wrote heartbreaker, whole lotta love, since ive been loving you, when the levee breaks, etc, and countless other original innovative takes on blues rock. Clapton never wrote anything that rocked. He just rehashes old blues standards cuz hes this old Robert Johnson blues man wannabe.

You must be OK with all these alleged Zep ripoffs then:

"Train Kept A Rollin'" -- Written by Tiny Bradshaw, L. Mann, and
H. Kay, first recorded by Bradshaw's Big Band in 1951.
Rewritten as a rockabilly tune in 1956 and recorded by the
Johnny Burnette Trio

"White Summer" -- Davey Graham's "She Moved Through The Fair."

"Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" -- Anne Bredon (a/k/a Annie Briggs)
(the Joan Baez version was the one this was based on).

"You Shook Me" -- Willie Dixon, first recorded by Muddy Waters.

"I Can't Quit You Baby" -- Willie Dixon.

"Communication Breakdown" -- Eddie Cochran's "Nervous Breakdown."

"How Many More Times" -- Howlin Wolf's "How Many More Years,"
Albert King's "The Hunter," Zeppelin's version is lyrically
related to a cover called "How Many More Times" by Gary
Farr and the T-Bones (liner notes by Giorgio Gomelsky,
one-time producer of The Yardbirds).

"Dazed And Confused" -- Jake Holmes, written and recorded as
"Dazed & Confused." The Yardbirds covered it under the
title "I'm Confused," with different lyrics.

"Black Mountain Side" -- traditional, Annie Briggs, Bert Jansch
The main riff is almost identical to the riff Jansch uses
in his song "BlackWater Side," though he cites Annie Briggs
as an earlier source.

"The Lemon Song" -- Chester Burnett (a/k/a Howlin Wolf) "Killing
Floor," Robert Johnson ("squeeze my lemon" lyric). In some
early concerts and on some pressings of _II_, the song was
actually called "Killing Floor." ARC Music filed a suit
against Zeppelin in the early 70's, which was settled out
of court. Ironically, the "squeeze my lemon" lyric was
lifted by Johnson as well--from Art McKay ("She Squeezed
My Lemon"--1937).

"Moby Dick" -- Bobby Parker (music), Ginger Baker's "Toad" (drum
solo). The song was originally entitled "The Girl I Love,"
which was written in 1929 by Sleepy John Estes and called
"The Girl I Love, She Got Long Curly Hair." There are also
some drum lines lifted intact from George Suranovich's drum
solo with Arthur Lee's Love's song "Doggone."

"Whole Lotta Love" -- Willie Dixon's "You Need Love" (lyrics).
Plant:

"Thank You" -- There is a striking chordal similarity to Traffic's
"Dear Mr. Fantasy." There is an intriguing rumor that Page
is actually the guitarist on the Traffic song, though no
one involved has confirmed this.

"Bring It On Home" -- Written by Willie Dixon, though the Sonny
Boy Williamson II version is the one which this bears a
similarity to.

"Traveling Riverside Blues" -- Johnny Winter's "Leavin' Blues"
(music only), plus lyrical references to Robert Johnson,
St. Louis Jimmy Oden, and Sleepy John Estes.

"Since I've Been Loving You" -- brief lyrical nod to Moby Grape's
"Never."

"Bron-Y-Aur Stomp" -- intro lifted from "The Waggoner's Tale" by
Bert Jansch.

"Gallows Pole" -- traditional, associated with Leadbelly. Page
says that his version was based on a cover of the song by
Fred Gerlach.

"Hats Off To (Roy) Harper" -- traditional, Bukka White (song
entitled "Shake 'Em On Down"), also covered by Joe Lee
Williams and Blind Lemon Jefferson.

"Black Dog" -- the vocal arrangement is very similar to Fleetwood
Mac's "Oh Well."

"Rock And Roll" -- drawn from Little Richard's "Good Golly Miss
Molly/Keep A Knockin'" (mostly the drum line).

"Stairway To Heaven" -- Possible (though unlikely) lift from
"And She's Lonely" by The Chocolate Watch Band, which
became the intro chords. There's really no way of knowing
for sure. The solo chords are also similar to the chords
of Dylan's (and Hendrix's) "All Along The Watchtower,"
though the chord progression is hardly uncommon and any
direct influence is also unlikely. A more believable lift
might be from Spirit's "Taurus," an instrumental from their
_Time Circle_ album--the intro from "Stairway" is remarkably
similar, and Page and Plant were certainly aware of the band.

"When The Levee Breaks" -- Memphis Minnie and Kansas Joe McCoy.


"Custard Pie" -- Sleepy John Estes did a song entitled "Drop
Down Daddy" in 1935, which seems to be the earliest source
for this material. Blind Boy Fuller recorded a song
entitled "I Want Some Of Your Pie" in 1939. Sonny Terry
covered it with the title "Custard Pie Blues." Big Joe
Williams also covered it under the title "Drop Down Mama,"
and his lyrics are pretty much identical to Plant's. There
is also some Bukka White material in the song.

"In My Time Of Dying" -- Traditional. First recorded by Blind
Willie Johnson as "Jesus Make Up My Dying Bed," which is
more like the Zeppelin version than the well-known Bob
Dylan cover. Plant has cited Josh White's 1933 "Jesus
Make Up My Dying Bed" as the source for Zeppelin's version.


"Boogie With Stu" -- Ritchie Valens. Page: "The jam [with Ian
Stewart] turned into 'Boogie With Stu,' which was obviously
a variation on 'Ooh My Head' by the late Ritchie Valens,
which itself was actually a variation of Little Richard's
'Ooh My Soul.'

"Nobody's Fault But Mine" -- Blind Willie Johnson (lyrics).
Plant:

"In The Evening" -- James Carr has a song called "In the Evening,
When The Sun Goes Down." The music is not similar.

"We're Gonna Groove" -- Ben E. King, James Bethea.

"Darlene" -- One line from Don McLean's "American Pie."

[scuzzo]

Like I say, Emperor's New Clothes: "if you were wise enough, you'd get it".

you give your self too much credit.. we get it..
its just not that witty..
sorry.. but its just not..
i guess you are referring the fable about the Emperors new clothes..


see we get it..
its just kinda lame.. oh wise one..

[DaveGrima]

You must be OK with all these alleged Zep ripoffs then:

QUOTE]

I never said Zep didnt do covers but thats not ALL they did. Page has way more awesome original compositions than clapton. Even their covers are completely different than the originals. They really made it their own. They created a new gene of heavy rock. Explosive and fiery is how id desribe them. Like whole lotta love, the lyrics are basically "you need love" but the music is completely different. Besides Page had nothing to do with the lyrics. Plant lifted alot of old blues phrases. But their blues covers were way more intersteing and rocking than the crap clapton put out. Even the best songs Clapton is known for from Cream, Derek and the dominoes etc, he didnt write. Sunshine of your love was written by Jack Bruce as was most of the best cream songs. The best part of Layla the opening riff and the outro slide solo were written by Duane ALLman.
Clapton wishes he could write half an many iconic riffs as Page.

[JoeFender]

I never said Zep didnt do covers but thats not ALL they did. Page has way more awesome original compositions than clapton. Even their covers are completely different than the originals. They really made it their own. They created a new gene of heavy rock. Explosive and fiery is how id desribe them. Like whole lotta love, the lyrics are basically "you need love" but the music is completely different. Besides Page had nothing to do with the lyrics. Plant lifted alot of old blues phrases. But their blues covers were way more intersteing and rocking than the crap clapton put out. Even the best songs Clapton is known for from Cream, Derek and the dominoes etc, he didnt write. Sunshine of your love was written by Jack Bruce as was most of the best cream songs. The best part of Layla the opening riff and the outro slide solo were written by Duane ALLman. Clapton wishes he could write half an many iconic riffs as Page.

 

 

Those weren't covers. They were ripped off, with no credit given to the originals.

[JoeFender]

Even the best songs Clapton is known for from Cream, Derek and the dominoes etc, he didnt write. Sunshine of your love was written by Jack Bruce as was most of the best cream songs. Clapton wishes he could write half an many iconic riffs as Page.

 

 

Wrong:

 

Development of the song began in January 1967 when Bruce and Clapton attended a Jimi Hendrix show at the Saville Theatre in London. Inspired by Hendrix's performance, Bruce returned home and wrote the memorable bass riff that runs throughout the song. Most of the lyrics to "Sunshine of Your Love" were written during an all-night creative session between Bruce and Brown, a poet who worked with the band: "I picked up my double bass and played the riff. Pete looked out the window and the sun was coming up. He wrote 'It's getting near dawn and lights close their tired eyes

[Dogsinotpalc]

What I find interesting is that most of the those that are for Clapton or like them both (me among them), only really bash Page's live playing which was infamously hit or miss, with a lot of examples of misses recorded for posterity. Again the Knebworth stuff, Unledded, Live at the Greek (w/ Black Crowes), and bootleg stuff from the reunion show were really quite excellent. But the Page fanboys are nearly delusional about Clapton. Clearly you don't like his music and I can't knock you for your opinion, but he's far from {censored} in any category. There's a lot of misinformation as well, but I'm not going to get into that pissing match.

I get amazed at the venom directed at fellow musicians, especially legends who have nothing to prove. You can take 'em or leave 'em, but they have both played some great guitar, written and/or recorded wonder takes of great tunes, and influenced countless of others to play music.

I'm sure they've both been incredibly douchey more times than we'll ever hear about. Page was not saint, alcoholic junkies never are...just ask Clapton.

[mutant_guitar]

[straycat113]

Just about this whole post was as if it was done by a bunch of high school kids, I mean get real.

 

First I would like to know how many people actually saw Zep live that are all bashing Page for being sloppy. Now I know I saw Zep live 4 times and yes Page could sometimes get a bit sloppy but I truly attribute that to bad technique(playing his ax lower than his balls) than anything else. He wore it so low he could not even form some barre chord shapes. Try it for yourself and see how clean you play.Checkout Page seated playing live and see how many clams he hits.

 

Clapton lost it after Cream? Well Layla is my favorite Clapton album and just the background fills on that album should be a Bible for any player. Yes Clapton can be lazy but corner him and put someone on stage that will scare him and he will dig down deep and hold his own with anyone. There is a great clip on Youtube of Clapton and Beck doing Cause We've Ended as Lovers that somehow got cut out of the Cross Roads DVD and when I first came across it I figured Beck would just blast him on it since it is more a modal jam, but Clapton really shocked me and plays really teriffic on it and it is great as you know who is playing what lines since they took the video down and only the song is left. But just another case of him being pushed.

 

Both are idols of mine and both are two of the greatest players ever. Some of this post have either one being talked about like they are some hacks =ridicules.

[blingdogg]

Page is sloppy and Clapton's work after Cream sucks. Both are overrated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[john_p_t]

So I guess your position is that Guitar World, all the tab books and guitar instructors are wrong?

 

If that's what they say, then yeah, they are wrong. All you have to do is work out how to play some of the stuff and this immediately becomes apparent. Sure, there's loads of pentatonic stuff in there, but there's loads of other stuff too. From the third album onwards it's incredibly diverse. I'm not sure where this line of argument is going.

[DaveAronow]

 

Just about this whole post was as if it was done by a bunch of high school kids, I mean get real. First I would like to know how many people actually saw Zep live that are all bashing Page for being sloppy. Now I know I saw Zep live 4 times and yes Page could sometimes get a bit sloppy but I truly attribute that to bad technique(playing his ax lower than his balls) than anything else. He wore it so low he could not even form some barre chord shapes. Try it for yourself and see how clean you play.Checkout Page seated playing live and see how many clams he hits. Clapton lost it after Cream? Well Layla is my favorite Clapton album and just the background fills on that album should be a Bible for any player. Yes Clapton can be lazy but corner him and put someone on stage that will scare him and he will dig down deep and hold his own with anyone. There is a great clip on Youtube of Clapton and Beck doing Cause We've Ended as Lovers that somehow got cut out of the Cross Roads DVD and when I first came across it I figured Beck would just blast him on it since it is more a modal jam, but Clapton really shocked me and plays really teriffic on it and it is great as you know who is playing what lines since they took the video down and only the song is left. But just another case of him being pushed. Both are idols of mine and both are two of the greatest players ever. Some of this post have either one being talked about like they are some hacks =ridicules.

 

 

I concur.

[Mister Crow]

I don't know, I thought this was a good thread. Let's just throw out the stuff where people are being unreasonable (Clapton sucks/Page sucks, my silly joke included). Other than that, there were some good points made for both sides.

Obviously, there is no answer to Who is Better? That depends on what you are looking for within the musical experience as a listener.

For me, between these two, Page is a more interesting player. I like his musical mind more, TO ME he seems to be reaching for something higher.

To others, Clapton is the obvious choice, he satisfies, for them, what they are looking for when choosing a player to listen to/learn from/enjoy. I am glad for them, certainly he is more than worthy of their admiration.

For me, this beats to hell all the endless NGD and Let's Talk About Strats threads that are repeated and repeated.

A good debate, where both sides have goodwill and are willing to give AND take, while hopefully expanding their knowledge and those of the other participants, is much more enjoyable.

[CoqBelliqueux]

Well, I actually learned a lot about both guys.

[jrockbridge]

Clapton is DOG..................................................................................................................................................................tired.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:poke:

[john_p_t]

For me, this beats to hell all the endless NGD and Let's Talk About Strats threads that are repeated and repeated.

 

 

Yeah, agreed. It actually has more to do with the whole thing of being a musician than just talking about gear ever can, I think.

[Dogsinotpalc]

Just about this whole post was as if it was done by a bunch of high school kids, I mean get real. First I would like to know how many people actually saw Zep live that are all bashing Page for being sloppy. Now I know I saw Zep live 4 times and yes Page could sometimes get a bit sloppy but I truly attribute that to bad technique(playing his ax lower than his balls) than anything else. He wore it so low he could not even form some barre chord shapes. Try it for yourself and see how clean you play.Checkout Page seated playing live and see how many clams he hits. Clapton lost it after Cream? Well Layla is my favorite Clapton album and just the background fills on that album should be a Bible for any player. Yes Clapton can be lazy but corner him and put someone on stage that will scare him and he will dig down deep and hold his own with anyone. There is a great clip on Youtube of Clapton and Beck doing Cause We've Ended as Lovers that somehow got cut out of the Cross Roads DVD and when I first came across it I figured Beck would just blast him on it since it is more a modal jam, but Clapton really shocked me and plays really teriffic on it and it is great as you know who is playing what lines since they took the video down and only the song is left. But just another case of him being pushed. Both are idols of mine and both are two of the greatest players ever. Some of this post have either one being talked about like they are some hacks =ridicules.

This is generally spot on, but besides the proliferation of bootlegs that seem to reflect more of a sloppy Page, there's also the records. I love Zeppelin and wouldn't change a thing about the band or it's music, but there are studio recordings where Page is falling out of rhythm, his picking is atrocious, and his fingers are mis-fretting. Now he may have recorded electric the way he played lived, but that doesn't excuse bad technique. He didn't need to sling the guitar so low. Showmanship that negatively impacts performance is useless. Another factor is that he recorded and played live off his ass drunk and stoned, but so did Charlie Parker yet Charlie was phenomenal. Obviously Clapton did the same and even had a few shows where he literally fell down flat on his face (also really bad technique ). But even when he phones it in, he's still executing well. My ears have totally grown accustomed to Page's playing in most contexts, but I've heard a lot of stuff that pushes the limits of my tolerance. I also greatly appreciate his efforts to really go for the gold by attempting to play beyond his abilities.

They both kick my butt and I love them.

[DaveGrima]

And I'm sure Clapton is pretty happy right where he is. He's been pretty busy for the last 40 years. Can't say the same for Pagey.

Even your math is wrong. Lets see 40 years ago was 1970. SO page didnt do anything since 1970?
Whie Zeppelin was peaking Clapton was holed up in his house on heroin for like 5 years. Even when Page was strung out on heroin he was still working and producing some great albums. So Page can hold his heroin better, another reason to like him more. As far as his work since 1980 or so Page has been alot more low key than Clapton. But he had alot more good material to rehash than Clapton. Id rather see Page play Stairway over and over than listen to most of Claptons solo pop rubbish from the 80's and 90's. Lets see he did the soundtrack to "Color of Money", "Tears IN Heaven" , waht else? ..

[Angry Tele]

The Firm were pretty good.

[BoneNut]

Even your math is wrong. Lets see 40 years ago was 1970. SO page didnt do anything since 1970?
Whie Zeppelin was peaking Clapton was holed up in his house on heroin for like 5 years. Even when Page was strung out on heroin he was still working and producing some great albums. So Page can hold his heroin better, another reason to like him more. As far as his work since 1980 or so Page has been alot more low key than Clapton. But he had alot more good material to rehash than Clapton. Id rather see Page play Stairway over and over than listen to most of Claptons solo pop rubbish from the 80's and 90's. Lets see he did the soundtrack to "Color of Money", "Tears IN Heaven" , waht else? ..[/QUOTE]

Interesting. Do you have children?

[JoeFender]

Even your math is wrong. Lets see 40 years ago was 1970. SO page didnt do anything since 1970? Whie Zeppelin was peaking Clapton was holed up in his house on heroin for like 5 years. Even when Page was strung out on heroin he was still working and producing some great albums. So Page can hold his heroin better, another reason to like him more. As far as his work since 1980 or so Page has been alot more low key than Clapton. But he had alot more good material to rehash than Clapton. Id rather see Page play Stairway over and over than listen to most of Claptons solo pop rubbish from the 80's and 90's. Lets see he did the soundtrack to "Color of Money", "Tears IN Heaven" , waht else? ..

You are correct. Clapton has been busy for >40 years. Page has done a modest amount of work post-Zep. The rest of your post is your opinion. Whatever.

And I'm glad your standards include "holding one's herion", that's very commendable.

[DaveAronow]

You are correct. Clapton has been busy for >40 years. Page has done a modest amount of work post-Zep. The rest of your post is your opinion. Whatever. And I'm glad your standards include "holding one's herion", that's very commendable.

 

Im pretty sure he meant the Heroin line as a joke, and Im pretty sure you recognised it as a joke but chose to use that against him as if he meant it literally, thus implying that page fans must be idiots that dont get why he sucks musically, because they are too busy praising him for his ability to consume drugs.

 

At least I HOPE you knew it was a joke, because otherwise, Id have to say lay off the Heroine.