'A known ebay glitch' ...

[ashasha]

What I really like is how it doesnt matter if you put "no returns" on an item ebay will still refund the buyer if they want and then expect you to pay for it:mad: My buddy just went through the same exact thing except it was with a camera. The women got the cam and decided she didnt like it so she put in a claim with ebay. They AUTOMATICALLY sided with her and refunded her the money before he had a chance to put his side of the story in. Complete garbage for sure:facepalm:

 

 

If you bought a guitar from MF and it sucked would you not want your money back?

 

It's the same thing whether it says no returns or not.

 

It sucks, but that's all part of sales and e-Bay's buyer protection policy may not be the best solution in everyone's mind, but do you think that anyone would ever bid on an item if they were left out to dry if there was a dispute?

 

That helps out every seller. Imagine if only 20% of the people that bid online now were to take a chance? Your stuff wouldn't be worth anything.

 

What about the number of scam artists on e-Bay? Don't you think that they would be even more prevelant than they are now? At least this way if someone takes your money you can get it back and e-Bay can pursue the dirty seller.

 

Yeah sometimes smaller issues get caught up in the machine, but for every horror story there are probably thousands if not millions of great transactions.

[dcindc]

wow I can't believe you said that! ^^^^^


ebay functioned just fine for nigh on 15 years without any buyer protection horse{censored}.

I just got screwed on a case about camera lenses. they needed clenaing, so he got his money back. Dip{censored} bidders should go to Walmart instead and never buy used things.

ebay is all about moving used stuff, as-is. The further they move away from that the worse it is. How is paypa/ebay an enforcement vehicel when it is just a money mover?

exactly.

[ashasha]

wow I can't believe you said that! ^^^^^ ebay functioned just fine for nigh on 15 years without any buyer protection horse{censored}. I just got screwed on a case about camera lenses. they needed clenaing, so he got his money back. Dip{censored} bidders should go to Walmart instead and never buy used things. ebay is all about moving used stuff, as-is. The further they move away from that the worse it is. How is paypa/ebay an enforcement vehicel when it is just a money mover? exactly.

 

What kind of cleaning (I know nothing almost nothing about camera lenses)? I mean are we talking about a wipe down or a professional thing?

 

I am assuming that you got the lenses back?

 

Either way I stand by my statement and you know this isn't anything personal; it's just my opinion.

 

If I was to buy something on e-Bay that was completely screwed up or I wasn't satisfied than I would want to be able to get it resolved and get my money back quickly. As a seller it sucks; I know that. But what if you bought something that was crappy and the guy said 'tough {censored}, not returns'? You're SOL and the only thing you did wrong was believe the description and get screwed.

 

For every innocent misunderstanding that inconveniences someone there are hundreds of fraudulent {censored}heads that are thwarted becasue they can't rip people off without getting the money taken back.

 

It's a two way street is all I am saying. Frivilous claims and unrealistic expectations are never a good thing and they screw up the system, but the protections that are provided IMHO are worth a couple of inconveniences.

 

And e-Bay wasn't that great 15 years ago without buyer protection; you heard about 'e-Bay scams' all the damn time. Plenty of people got screwed. At least now they can get their money back. I doubt that if everyone was honest that they would have implemented the new policies that no doubt generated a lot more work and overhead.

 

The only thing that you can do as a seller is to make sure that the item is described as completely and accurately as you can and be sure to identify any discrepancies or issues. Photograph the crap out of it and communicate with the buyer to the point that it's almost insulting.

 

I've had to give one refund over the years and that was because the damn thing was broken and I didn't realize it when I sent it out. Dude even gave me great feedback because I made it good. It could have went the other way if he was an asshole.

 

That's part of the risk of selling online; you never know who the other person is and what they are like until it's too late.

[dcindc]

the camera lenses needed to be clenaed internally, or so he said. I need to have a camera shop look at them. I am leaning towards disbelieving him.

He had lots of feedback about camera stuff, yet he didn't ask the very questions that he should've. I was unaware of the possibility.

Here's the kicker: if the lenses need cleaning it's about $40 a piece, he got 3. He stated that if he had known he would've bid less. I wish he had bid less. What an ass. If there was a question in his mind he should've not bid.

I love to buy, because I KNOW what to ask. None of the used stuff on ebay is new.

I've heard of many ebay scams but have never run afoul of any. Buyer's need an education, or to stay away.



Today's maxim: Controls, usually don't.

[steve_man]

Yup, the more they try and make it like Amazon.com...the worse it gets, both as a buyer and as a seller. Used to get KILLER deals on gear on evilbay...not so much anymore...

[cuppster]

If you bought a guitar from MF and it sucked would you not want your money back? It's the same thing whether it says no returns or not. It sucks, but that's all part of sales and e-Bay's buyer protection policy may not be the best solution in everyone's mind, but do you think that anyone would ever bid on an item if they were left out to dry if there was a dispute? That helps out every seller. Imagine if only 20% of the people that bid online now were to take a chance? Your stuff wouldn't be worth anything. What about the number of scam artists on e-Bay? Don't you think that they would be even more prevelant than they are now? At least this way if someone takes your money you can get it back and e-Bay can pursue the dirty seller. Yeah sometimes smaller issues get caught up in the machine, but for every horror story there are probably thousands if not millions of great transactions.

 

 

Equating eBay's policies with Guitar Center is apples and oranges. If you try to take a guitar back to Guitar Center because it's out of tune, they have the opportunity to call you a moron and show you why. eBay does not give the seller that opportunity. They just award the refund automatically.

 

And if you buy a guitar from Guitar Center as-is, then they aren't going to give you a refund whether there's anything wrong with it or not. Same with any retail store - buying used stuff is a gamble. eBay's policy also completely removes the ability of the seller to sell anything as-is. Because they just award the refund automatically.

 

In short, eBay's Buyer Protection is so one-sided in favor of the buyer that it makes scamming the seller trivial. How turning "caveat emptor", which has worked as a business model for thousands of years, completely upside down, is any sort of improvement is beyond me.

[dcindc]

In short, eBay's Buyer Protection is so one-sided in favor of the buyer that it makes scamming the seller trivial. How turning "caveat emptor", which has worked as a business model for thousands of years, completely upside down, is any sort of improvement is beyond me.

You're my hero!

[bigspan]

If you bought a guitar from MF and it sucked would you not want your money back? It's the same thing whether it says no returns or not. It sucks, but that's all part of sales and e-Bay's buyer protection policy may not be the best solution in everyone's mind, but do you think that anyone would ever bid on an item if they were left out to dry if there was a dispute? That helps out every seller. Imagine if only 20% of the people that bid online now were to take a chance? Your stuff wouldn't be worth anything. What about the number of scam artists on e-Bay? Don't you think that they would be even more prevelant than they are now? At least this way if someone takes your money you can get it back and e-Bay can pursue the dirty seller. Yeah sometimes smaller issues get caught up in the machine, but for every horror story there are probably thousands if not millions of great transactions.

 

 

Wait - I disagree with part of what you're saying here - If I, as a Seller, State the auction is "As Is - No Returns" the only reason the Buyer should GET a Return is if I outright LIED about the item I sold them.

 

If I post a guitar, and state its "As Is - No Returns" and I show good photos, and am HONEST about any dings, nicks, flaws in my description - and the Buyer gets its and just decides, "Bleh - I just don't like the way it sounds" EVEN THOUGH it is just as I described it - I see absolutely NO reason why they should suddenly be able to Return it. I stated everything up front and the Buyer KNEW the info and the risk before they bid.

 

Ebay even reminds you when creating the listing that "Its okay to not accept returns, just be accurate in your description." So, Ebay should NOT just automatically disregard the "No Returns" setting and issue the refund.

 

(and yes, I've had that happen to me)

 

As for damage in transit, I always buy Insurance for that eventuality and I always over-pack things.

[dcindc]

and yet, this is not how it works. They refund the buyer, no matter what you respond to the case with.

Here's what he stated, followed by my response, and yet the refund was almost immediately granted.

This {censored}stick was a buyer who naturally assumes that any seller is out to screw them. I don't want or even need to screw anyone. I sell enough stuff to happy buyers.


buyer's words:
"I told him that his description has said he did not have batteries and he did not test it. I told him that my problem is not about it because I took the risk that the camera was NOT working. But I told him that he knows about these items because he advertised that the lenses were for Sony digital camera although there were not sony imprints on them. Plus he said that they were in good condition. On the other side, it turned out to be that two lenses have oily aperture blades which requires $40-60.00 expense for each lens to have the oil cleaned. He said he was not knowledgeable enough to know that such problem existed. I said he must have known that this set was not only about batteries, but you only mentioned the batteries. Since you're knowledgeable enough to know that they were for sony digital SLR cameras, you must have known about what kind of things you did not know about lenses, and you must have mentioned that YOU DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING AT ALL ABOUT THESE ITEMS INCLUDING LENSES. I told him that he was only satisfied about mentioning the batteries. Plus, he was giving an image that he knEW something about the stuff he was selling because he was telling the buyers that these lenses were for Sony digital cameras although they had different brands on them. Plus, he was encouraging the bidders more by assuring the bidders that they were "All in good condition." In my opinion, his choice of words were carefully calculated in a way that he could encourage the bidders to bid on the set, and on the other side, if he runs into a dispute, he could get away with it because he mentioned that they were untested because he did not have batteries. First, oily aperture blades have nothing to do with batteries. Second, he, for sure, knows that testing these items are not only related to the batteries. IF he does not know how to test this stuff entirely, then he must have said that he DID NOT know anything at all about them. On the other side, he tried to give an impression that he knows his stuff. Second, he mentioned that they were all in good condition. I believe what he had done was a deceptive advertising based upon carefully calculated choice of words. Therefore, I want to return these items and want to be refunded entirely. Best regards, "

*****************************

seller's words:
The buyer claims I knew of alleged dirty lens problem. I did not.
I described these items accurately. They are as described, "in good condition". The buyer expects an item over 20 years old to not need some cleaning or maintenance. I stated "returns not accepted" in the auction. I doubt the other bidders would be dissatisfied. I only learned of the Sony fitment ability after a minute's internet search. The buyer had to educate me regarding the cleaning he says that these lenses need. It seems to be a possibility with used lenses, but I was not aware of that. The items were described accurately and shipped immediately. This buyer is dissatisfied that he didn't get lenses in new condition. They were not sold as new, but as used. Please deny this claim to support a SELLER's continued trust in eBay.

[etawful]

^^^^^^^

Hell, if I was E-Bay I would have just denied his claim for grammar and punctuation alone.

[cuppster]

 

I believe what he had done was a deceptive advertising based upon carefully calculated choice of words.

 

 

That's an interesting claim, because I know of no other form of advertising.

[cBc]

Thank you for re-reminding me never to sell anything ever again on ebay.
The last sale I did on ebay was several years ago, a really nice Yamaha integrated audio amp/pre. Posted full set of pics & specs on it. Seller bid & won it. I wrapped the entire amp in 3 layers of new bubble wrap, nested it securely in an oversized box, & re-enforced the corners. The carton was tight enough to withstand a tank driving over it. I always make an extra effort to overpack just to avoid complaints later, & have access to good packing material thru work
Seller contacts me, complaining that the amp isn't rated to drive 4 ohm speakers (1. yes, it is, and 2. You didn't bother to ask before bidding on it), and more importantly, it arrived damaged & he wants his $$ back. Told him to return it, and it arrives in the same box I sent it in. Now the amp has a HUGE scratch across the whole top, down to bare metal, and one rear corner is bent a little. No.{censored}ing.way. did it leave my house like that, & had the pics to prove it. Asked him how a sharp object could have penetrated the carton & bubble wrap in order to gouge metal like that. He said that wasn't HIS problem any more.
Yeah, I'm done with that {censored}.

[yorgatron]

{censored} eBay.

[super56k]

{censored} me running...

 

Updated in OP -

 

Spoke with an ebay rep, and had it confirmed to me that due to the glitch ebay corrected their mistake by refunding the money on their dime, and releasing my funds (and liability). I'm still nervous, but this guy confirmed to me a few times, in a few different ways, how they have no reason (or legal authority) to expect a refund from me when they messed up the resolution.

[CoqBelliqueux]

So there is indeed a free amp!!!

[bigspan]

{censored} me running... Updated in OP - Spoke with an ebay rep, and had it confirmed to me that due to the glitch ebay corrected their mistake by refunding the money on their dime, and releasing my funds (and liability). I'm still nervous, but this guy confirmed to me a few times, in a few different ways, how they have no reason (or legal authority) to expect a refund from me when they messed up the resolution.

Wow - well, Color me impressed by that! Very Cool.

[dcindc]

That's scary as {censored}. And ebay has done plenty of scary stuff before, but ooooo this is downright creepy.

[NHLfan2010]

that bites bro

[super56k]

So there is indeed a free amp!!!

The buyer was one lucky sob. He got about a $500 refund and a free amp.

[ashasha]

and yet, this is not how it works. They refund the buyer, no matter what you respond to the case with. Here's what he stated, followed by my response, and yet the refund was almost immediately granted. This {censored}stick was a buyer who naturally assumes that any seller is out to screw them. I don't want or even need to screw anyone. I sell enough stuff to happy buyers. buyer's words: "I told him that his description has said he did not have batteries and he did not test it. I told him that my problem is not about it because I took the risk that the camera was NOT working. But I told him that he knows about these items because he advertised that the lenses were for Sony digital camera although there were not sony imprints on them. Plus he said that they were in good condition. On the other side, it turned out to be that two lenses have oily aperture blades which requires $40-60.00 expense for each lens to have the oil cleaned. He said he was not knowledgeable enough to know that such problem existed. I said he must have known that this set was not only about batteries, but you only mentioned the batteries. Since you're knowledgeable enough to know that they were for sony digital SLR cameras, you must have known about what kind of things you did not know about lenses, and you must have mentioned that YOU DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING AT ALL ABOUT THESE ITEMS INCLUDING LENSES. I told him that he was only satisfied about mentioning the batteries. Plus, he was giving an image that he knEW something about the stuff he was selling because he was telling the buyers that these lenses were for Sony digital cameras although they had different brands on them. Plus, he was encouraging the bidders more by assuring the bidders that they were "All in good condition." In my opinion, his choice of words were carefully calculated in a way that he could encourage the bidders to bid on the set, and on the other side, if he runs into a dispute, he could get away with it because he mentioned that they were untested because he did not have batteries. First, oily aperture blades have nothing to do with batteries. Second, he, for sure, knows that testing these items are not only related to the batteries. IF he does not know how to test this stuff entirely, then he must have said that he DID NOT know anything at all about them. On the other side, he tried to give an impression that he knows his stuff. Second, he mentioned that they were all in good condition. I believe what he had done was a deceptive advertising based upon carefully calculated choice of words. Therefore, I want to return these items and want to be refunded entirely. Best regards, " ***************************** seller's words: The buyer claims I knew of alleged dirty lens problem. I did not. I described these items accurately. They are as described, "in good condition". The buyer expects an item over 20 years old to not need some cleaning or maintenance. I stated "returns not accepted" in the auction. I doubt the other bidders would be dissatisfied. I only learned of the Sony fitment ability after a minute's internet search. The buyer had to educate me regarding the cleaning he says that these lenses need. It seems to be a possibility with used lenses, but I was not aware of that. The items were described accurately and shipped immediately. This buyer is dissatisfied that he didn't get lenses in new condition. They were not sold as new, but as used. Please deny this claim to support a SELLER's continued trust in eBay.

Well I can see why you lost that case....literacy and reason are apparently something that will bite you in the ass everytime. I don't even understand what the buyer said; it's like the ramblings of a drunken 3rd grader after a 4 day meth binge.

 

I'd say that the case manager got a headached and just approved the claim.

 

I have to agree that if you are buying something that is 20 years old there is going to have to reasonable expectations.

[bisticles]

the camera lenses needed to be clenaed internally, or so he said. I need to have a camera shop look at them. I am leaning towards disbelieving him.

 

 

Camera people tend to be *VERY* picky about used gear. They get all bent out of shape over a lens with a hint of dust on the inside, a noticeable ding, or anything else that would differentiate it from being 100% out-of-the-box-new. On the plus side, that means that you can *usually* buy used and get good stuff, but just know that every hobby has its cork-sniffers, and that you really need to define what you mean by "good".

 

As for eBay buyer protection policies, I think that they're good for business, and encourage people to bid more. The few times that I've been involved in a dispute, the process has helped to steer us towards an amicable resolution.

 

THAT SAID, everyone knows that eBay will basically always side with the buyer unless you can prove otherwise, so when a buyer claims that you sent them a busted item, the best you can do is ask them to send it back... which usually results in more drama because according to eBay policy, the seller is not required to reimburse the buyer for return shipping. I'm not saying I have a better solution, just that it seems weird.

[-Assy-]

ebay is a multi-billion dollar account, im sure they arent butthurting about losing a grand or less. if its their fault, they know it. despite their annoying rules, they are a legitimate business and are not out to {censored} people.

[CoqBelliqueux]

The buyer was one lucky sob. He got about a $500 refund and a free amp.

What a horrible business.

[poolshark]

THAT SAID, everyone knows that eBay will basically always side with the buyer unless you can prove otherwise, so when a buyer claims that you sent them a busted item, the best you can do is ask them to send it back... which usually results in more drama because according to eBay policy, the seller is not required to reimburse the buyer for return shipping. I'm not saying I have a better solution, just that it seems weird.

 

 

This is why I video demo everything I sell - privately, I mean - and then take obsessive photos of the packing process. Just keeps everybody honest.

[calclown]

This is why I video demo everything I sell - privately, I mean - and then take obsessive photos of the packing process. Just keeps everybody honest.

 

 

Quick someone sell me a $500 amp on ebay and I'll file a dispute! WIN WIN!

Can't believe e-bay payed out of pocket.

Either this isn't over yet or e-bay has the worst business model ever.