Pickups and Modeling Amps

[cratz2]

Here's my advice...

 

Number one, turn off the pickup SC>HB, HB>SC crap. It's all done with EQ and basically makes your guitar either sound thin or bloated, depending on whcih way you are going,.

 

Skip trying to get better dirt tones out of the RP255 than out of the Vox. I had an AD30VT for a couple years, currently have a Tonelab and I had a RP250 for over a year. The Vox stuff is much, much better at achieving organic 'guitar' tones. The Digitech is as good if not better for actual effects.

 

As for pickups, I tend to be a single coil guy. I have a few guitars with HBs, all of which are currently pretty low output. Probably my favorite hot-ish humbucker ever is the Duncan Custom 5. It doesn't have quite the complexity of the Seth Lovers or the subtle bite of the 57 Classics, and it's not as aggressive with high gain stuff as the Tone Zone or even the Super Distortion, but it does a very, very good job at hard rock into metal territory and it doesn't sound terrible clean.

 

For GFS stuff... I've had Crunchy PATs, Fat PATs and a Crunchy PAF from before Dimarzio cracked down on the name. They were all OK, but not what I would consider much of an upgrade from decent entry level pickups like what are in your Dean. Haven't tried the VEH but if I had to order another bridge position HB, that would get my money. For a neck pickup from GFS, I have a set of the low output Alnico IIs which I really like run clean or with light gain, but I feel they fall a bit short even getting into classic rock territory. But for something cheap and new, they sound great clean or very slightly crunchy. If you are the kind of guy that almost always plays dirty on the bridge pickup and clean on the neck, I'd maybe suggest you look into it. If you want to play fairly dirty lead on the neck pickup for that vocal quality it can offer, I'd get something else.

[ashasha]

Pickups make a huge difference. I've used a ton of stuff over the years from freeware computer based to an Axe-FX Ultra. Nothing helps more than good pickups IMHO.

[GilmourD]

Use the same pickups you'd use if you had the most awesome all-tube amp in the world.

 

Modeling amps emulate the amps. If your guitar would sound like crap through a real Marshall Plexi, it's going to sound like crap through the model of a Plexi.

[Spike Li]

Of course pickups matter. The better the original signal going in to your modeling hardware/software, the better potential sound coming out. Thin sounding pickups can only be processed so much before it really starts sounding digital and ugly... you want a thicker sound, start with thicker pickups. A low signal can be brought up in digital modeling, but again, there are limits. In some ways, digital modeling works essentially the same as the equipment it attempts to replicate, and if you use better pickups on the original gear, you will have a better result as well.

 

This.

 

The idea that everything will sound the same because its using amp modeling is ridiculous and nonsensical. How is it even possible to make everything sound the same regardless of input?

[etawful]

One thing I didn't see mentioned (or maybe missed).

 

If you're using an amp model on both your RP255 and your VT15, you're going to have weird sound and muddiness. I would recommend turning off any amp modelling on the pedal and letting the VT15 do it, or run straight in to the amp.

 

If you run one amp model on the pedal in to the VT15 which is running another sim, the amp is taking an already heavily modified signal and trying to run it through

yet another model.

 

At least that's the way it was for me when I tried an RP350 through that same amp. Turn off the amp sim on the pedal and you'll probably hear a clearer more defined tone from the VT15 doing the sim.

[GilmourD]

This. The idea that everything will sound the same because its using amp modeling is ridiculous and nonsensical. How is it even possible to make everything sound the same regardless of input?

Sadly, it's because most people, even some of our guitar playing brothers and sisters, are

[Spike Li]

Sadly, it's because most people, even some of our guitar playing brothers and sisters, are

 

haha yeah

 

What I said wasnt an attack on the OP btw, I just remember that someone here once tried to tell me that "all guitars will sound the same when played through a modeling amp" which is obviously not the case since my only amp for a long time was a cube 30x and each of my guitars sounded different though them...

[humbuckerstrat]

I use a modeling amp and whatever upgrade you make to your gear whether it's pickips, picks, strings, etc., is going to help the tone on it just like any other amp.

[StillRock]

This. The idea that everything will sound the same because its using amp modeling is ridiculous and nonsensical. How is it even possible to make everything sound the same regardless of input?

 

Well, if your source instrument is modeled as well (i.e. Line6 Variax) it really won't matter what you plug in to. A Variax sounds best plugged in to a POD XT or X3, because the output and input match best. A variax electric plugged in to a traditional amp will sound meh. In fact, the only time I liked the variax is when GC had one connected to an XT Live and BOSE PA system... all 3 components matched each other well and created some really good sound.

 

That said, my Les Paul and Stratocaster sound different when plugged in to my XT Live, as do my other guitars. The natural sound of the guitar makes a difference. It would be cool if we could have models that would take care of everything, but that would blow the fun of GAS, modding, and the rest of the reasons for forums like this one.

[awd83]

I don't use the pup modeler part of it at all. And I don't expect to be able to sound like anything and everything, I just wanted to know if changing pups would account for a huge jump in quality, or if the modeling aspects of the amp/pedal could compensate.

 

It sounds like the general concensus is that pups do matter, I'm just curious if anything that GFS sells is going to be worth the money to upgrade over the stock Dean pups in my Soltero.

 

Thanks guys!

[NHLfan2010]

Of course pickups matter. The better the original signal going in to your modeling hardware/software, the better potential sound coming out. Thin sounding pickups can only be processed so much before it really starts sounding digital and ugly... you want a thicker sound, start with thicker pickups. A low signal can be brought up in digital modeling, but again, there are limits. In some ways, digital modeling works essentially the same as the equipment it attempts to replicate, and if you use better pickups on the original gear, you will have a better result as well.

 

This^

 

/thread

 

[RaVenCAD]

 

If you want a great sound with a minimum of fiddling, get rid of the digital VOX, get rid of the RP-whatever pedal, and plug a good guitar into a very simple high-quality amp. Among those I highly recommend for both home and stage use: Fender DRRI Fender Blues Junior Peavey Classic Roland Jazz Chorus VOX AC (If you only play at home, both the Epiphone Valve Jr. and Fender Champion are great little performers, as are some of the pre-digital Peavey "transtube" amps.) Others here will speak highly of several other options... but the point here is, try the amp out with YOUR guitar and see if it gives you EXACTLY the clean tone you want. If it does, buy it. Done. Then if you want preamp distortion on top of that either use the gain stage of the amp (if it has one and it rocks... so NOT on the Roland JC) or else buy a really good distortion pedal. I highly recommend snapping up the now-discontinued "Liquid Blues" pedal from Damage control before they run out of them. Follow this link. They are being cleared out for $140 right now. As long as you're working with all those digital gizmos, you can find yourself spending hours trying to "dial in" your sound when you would probably rather be playing.

 

 

I think the key here is the fact that your suggestion does give him a great sound, as in, ONE, great sound.. Good modelers can create lots of great sounds. Contrary to what the old timers think, tubes ain't the be all end all of excellent tone. Nothing against the amps suggested here, but they're all one trick ponies. It's a good trick, but to change tricks you gotta lug all those amps around. No thanks. This isn't 1970.

[awd83]

 

I think the key here is the fact that your suggestion does give him a great sound, as in, ONE, great sound.. Good modelers can create lots of great sounds. Contrary to what the old timers think, tubes ain't the be all end all of excellent tone. Nothing against the amps suggested here, but they're all one trick ponies. It's a good trick, but to change tricks you gotta lug all those amps around. No thanks. This isn't 1970.

 

 

Exactly. I couldn't afford buying a different amp for every sound I wanted, nor would I want to if I could afford it. I'm pretty happy with my amp, I am really starting to like my pedal, I love my guitar. I think the one real weak link I have is pickups. I would love to have Marshall Stack and a real Vox AC30 and a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe or the like, but that's several thousands of $$$ that I don't have to spend on amps. The real question now is, is $60 worth of GFS pups going to sound any better than what I already have.

[etawful]

 

I think the key here is the fact that your suggestion does give him a great sound, as in, ONE, great sound.. Good modelers can create lots of great sounds. Contrary to what the old timers think, tubes ain't the be all end all of excellent tone. Nothing against the amps suggested here, but they're all one trick ponies. It's a good trick, but to change tricks you gotta lug all those amps around. No thanks. This isn't 1970.

 

 

Agreed. I love my Pod X3 Live. I also love my Tech 21 TM 60. Both give me a LOT of versatility, neither has a tube anywhere in it.

 

I know it's a very low end example, but I do NOT love my Vox AC4TV. Lots of folks like 'em, but it just leaves me totally unimpressed. I'd much rather play through my TM60.

 

The Pod gives me even more versatility, especially when run through a clean power amp (such as what's in my PE60).

 

Like I said, one thing that will REALLY kill your tone from any modeller is to one run one modeller into another. Turn off the amp sim on the pedal and just use the amp sims from the Vox. Use the other pedal effects as much as you want, but running one amp sim into another will just sound like {censored}.

[etawful]

 

Exactly. I couldn't afford buying a different amp for every sound I wanted, nor would I want to if I could afford it. I'm pretty happy with my amp, I am really starting to like my pedal, I love my guitar. I think the one real weak link I have is pickups. I would love to have Marshall Stack and a real Vox AC30 and a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe or the like, but that's several thousands of $$$ that I don't have to spend on amps. The real question now is, is $60 worth of GFS pups going to sound any better than what I already have.

 

 

I'd say that your pickups that came stock are most likely fine. I've heard some damn good sounds coming out of a Soltero that was bone stock. Do what I suggested above, turn off the amp sim from the pedal and just use the Vox. If you were using an amp that had an effects loop you could run the pedal straight to the effects return (i.e guitar -->pedal-->effects return) and bypass the pre-amp section of your amp.

 

BUT, basically what you're doing if you don't disable the amp sim in the pedal is running one pre-amp into another and then into a power amp. It just ain't gonna sound right in my experience.

[awd83]

 

I'd say that your pickups that came stock are most likely fine. I've heard some damn good sounds coming out of a Soltero that was bone stock. Do what I suggested above, turn off the amp sim from the pedal and just use the Vox. If you were using an amp that had an effects loop you could run the pedal straight to the effects return (i.e guitar -->pedal-->effects return) and bypass the pre-amp section of your amp. BUT, basically what you're doing if you don't disable the amp sim in the pedal is running one pre-amp into another and then into a power amp. It just ain't gonna sound right in my experience.

 

 

Thanks, I'll try that and see how it sounds. I've been using the amp model off of the pedal instead of the amp because the pedal has more models, but maybe using the amp model on the amp would be cleaner?

[GAS Man]

I think questions like this really depend a lot upon your playing style.

 

If you like a lot or a fair amount of saturated gain, then the guitar won't make all that much difference.

 

But if you're more like me, and prefer more vintage clean or slightly over driven tones, then the guitar and pickups will still make a significant difference.

 

It just matters how much adulteration of the original tone that you will be dialing in. The big thing I notice with my better guitars is a more complex, almost 3-D level of tone. Cheaper guitars/pickups have a bit more of a flatter, uniform tone.

[etawful]

 

Thanks, I'll try that and see how it sounds. I've been using the amp model off of the pedal instead of the amp because the pedal has more models, but maybe using the amp model on the amp would be cleaner?

 

 

You could use the amp model off the pedal, BUT, if I'm not mistaken, you can't turn off amp modelling on the amp. So there's always an active model on the amp.

 

If the amp allows you to disable the simulation, great, use the pedal, otherwise, the two different sims will be stepping on each other.

[awd83]

 

You could use the amp model off the pedal, BUT, if I'm not mistaken, you can't turn off amp modelling on the amp. So there's always an active model on the amp. If the amp allows you to disable the simulation, great, use the pedal, otherwise, the two different sims will be stepping on each other.

 

 

Hadn't thought of that, I just tried to get a clean sound on the amp, and figured that was as stripped down as it could get.

[etawful]

Hadn't thought of that, I just tried to get a clean sound on the amp, and figured that was as stripped down as it could get.

 

You may be right, I just found that it sounded better using just one sim. Other people may have other experiences, I'm just giving mine .

 

Can't hurt to try though right?

[SuproSuper Man]

in response to the original question at the verry start of the thread.

 

OPTION ONE - if you have doubts about the sound / tone / or quality of your guitars pickups , then may i suggest find a friend with a real good quality guitar and invite them over to check out your cool new modeling gear, (oh make sure you tell them to bring their expensive high quality guitar with good pickups in it )...

 

while your buddy is checking out your modeling gear, you can can try his axe and see how his pickups played through your modeling gear compares to your pickups....

 

 

OPTION TWO - some music stores in toronto rent guitars , if your local music store rents decent guitars then maybe just rent a high end axe for a weekend and see if it sound a lot better through the modeling gear than your axe does..

 

OPTION THREE - if your local music store charges more than 30 dollars to rent a axe then dont rent , instead put the 30 bucks towards a decent GFS pickup, or what ever brand pickup you prefer

[Arr0wHead]

Just saw Cynic two nights ago, both guitarist were playing Steinberg guitars through Axe FX units, running direct to PA. They then share an in-ear monitoring setup, so they can all hear the mix they need in every venue, at every show.

 

Sound was stellar. This is the second time I saw them using this setup this year, and both times they had the better sound/mix/performance of the lineup. Also, they had not only BETTER tones, but MORE tones. The live performance sounded just like the album, even parts I thought they could never cover with 2 guitars. I think we're finally at the stage where modeling and tube amps will start running neck and neck, despite the cynics (the irony).

 

(all recorded with the Axe FX)

mvaFpKt8X_o

 

It's not so much a question of whether you like the tone or not, (not everyone will of course), but the ease and simplicity of the setup and it's absolute EFFECTIVENESS!

 

As for the original topic, the amp sim is the amp. The guitar is the guitar. The pickups are the pickups. Each component will effect your overall sound.

 

However, at the end of the day, the biggest changes will always come from your PLAYING and how you set the gear you have. As you say you have poor note definition with chords, my first suggestion would be dial back the gain.

[Spike Li]

 

I think questions like this really depend a lot upon your playing style. If you like a lot or a fair amount of saturated gain, then the guitar won't make all that much difference.

 

 

I play with a tonne of gain and I find this to be a myth. Sure, super high gain makes less of a noticeable difference, but the difference is still there.

[awd83]

in response to the original question at the verry start of the thread. OPTION ONE - if you have doubts about the sound / tone / or quality of your guitars pickups , then may i suggest find a friend with a real good quality guitar and invite them over to check out your cool new modeling gear, (oh make sure you tell them to bring their expensive high quality guitar with good pickups in it )... while your buddy is checking out your modeling gear, you can can try his axe and see how his pickups played through your modeling gear compares to your pickups.... OPTION TWO - some music stores in toronto rent guitars , if your local music store rents decent guitars then maybe just rent a high end axe for a weekend and see if it sound a lot better through the modeling gear than your axe does.. OPTION THREE - if your local music store charges more than 30 dollars to rent a axe then dont rent , instead put the 30 bucks towards a decent GFS pickup, or what ever brand pickup you prefer

 

Option one is something I had already thought about. I do have a friend nearby that has a 2010 Les Paul Traditional Pro - I'll have to try to get him to come over sometime. The problem is we have such different schedules and we both have kids, so it's hard to get together. He plays in our church band and is at practice about 3-4 nights a week and plays at 3 services on the weekend.