Members Bro Blue Posted October 18, 2010 Members Share Posted October 18, 2010 i know somebody who runs a jam session who owns a valve fender amp i forget which model it is but it is a decent model ,he sets is amp up squeeky clean and then uses various distortion boxes to get drive sounds. it is the worst sound i have ever played through . i attended another jam run by someone else and he had an old transistor 2x12 peavey but through the front end he had a black star ht dual with the little pre amp valves ,that was a great sound. I have heard a lot of Fenders that sound like steaming poop running distortion pedals - depending on what pedal it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 17 Tubes Posted October 18, 2010 Members Share Posted October 18, 2010 Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Maybe you should stick to the Amps forum Mr. 17 tubes. Oh lookit...bone nut knows how to search the forum/my posts........wow... I.Q. points awarded! If you think putting a pedal in front doesn't change the characteristics of a tube amp...well...yer just a ret@rd. Sorry about your luck you just are. That's why people do it. If it didn't change how the amp sounds, plays feels responds...you know....."characteristics"?...then they wouldn't do it. It's not just about amplifying a sound. The amp changes. A pedal can change EVERYTHING about how an amp responds. If you overload the front end...it will change the amp. Put your fancy Metal Zone pedal in front of whatever tube amp your friend has, turn all the pedal knobs to the right for full effect.....and tell me again it doesn't change anything about the amp. How it sounds how it responds and reacts.... But if you want to ignore facts and physics....well by all means stay ignorant and proclaim yourself the innerwebz winnar. Sheesh kids these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 17 Tubes Posted October 18, 2010 Members Share Posted October 18, 2010 I have heard a lot of Fenders that sound like steaming poop running distortion pedals - depending on what pedal it was. Exactly...now you got it. The amp changes....it changes it's "characteristics". Sometimes it changes it a really good way...sometimes in a horrible way. GOOD WORK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bro Blue Posted October 19, 2010 Members Share Posted October 19, 2010 Exactly...now you got it. The amp changes....it changes it's "characteristics". Sometimes it changes it a really good way...sometimes in a horrible way. GOOD WORK! No, you still do not understand. The amp is the same amp regardless of what pedal is in front of it. What does change is the signal it is fed. Some amps react in a good way to certain signals and some badly - even though two amps may look exactly alike. The amp its self does not change, it merely reacts to the signal it is fed. Say you eat a five pound block of cheese and don't {censored} for a week. You are still the same person you were before, just full of {censored}. Say you're tired of not {censored}ting so you eat 16 bran muffins. Now you can't stop {censored}ting. Are you a different person? Has your gender changed? Have you gotten younger? No. Your bowels are reacting in vastly different ways to what you have put into your body but neither you nor your bowels have changed. Your bowels are doing what bowels do under a given set of circumstances. What you put into your body led to the amount (or lack of) fecal matter produced but your colon did not change into a kidney. Really, this is not that hard to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members evh1984 Posted October 19, 2010 Author Members Share Posted October 19, 2010 Wow, just asking a simple question...now it's 6 pages of....I should've thrown "EVH" into the thread title just for fun. :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 17 Tubes Posted October 19, 2010 Members Share Posted October 19, 2010 No, you still do not understand. The amp is the same amp regardless of what pedal is in front of it. What does change is the signal it is fed. Some amps react in a good way to certain signals and some badly - even though two amps may look exactly alike. The amp its self does not change, it merely reacts to the signal it is fed.Say you eat a five pound block of cheese and don't {censored} for a week. You are still the same person you were before, just full of {censored}. Say you're tired of not {censored}ting so you eat 16 bran muffins. Now you can't stop {censored}ting. Are you a different person? Has your gender changed? Have you gotten younger? No. Your bowels are reacting in vastly different ways to what you have put into your body but neither you nor your bowels have changed. Your bowels are doing what bowels do under a given set of circumstances. What you put into your body led to the amount (or lack of) fecal matter produced but your colon did not change into a kidney.Really, this is not that hard to understand. So if i eat acid...that won't change my bowels huh? Your body CAN change depending on what you put it into. You change the characteristics...NOT THE FUNCTION (unless you kill it). You can force it to have cancer, you can make parts not work. Now...if you put in the optimal food (signal)...it will repsond very well. A signal isn't just a signal. You can overdrive the rest of the signal chain. It's actually a feedback kind of system. You aren't just changing the front and everything else responds the same. Function /= characteritics. Function remains the same. Characterstics change...not just because of the change in the front, but how the amp responds to those changes. JMHO, of course. Tell ya what....I'll keep my opinion and you keep yours, and we can run our rigs accordingly. And hey...I admit I could be wrong.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cratz2 Posted October 19, 2010 Members Share Posted October 19, 2010 Can we get this thread moved to the Amp forum or maybe Guitar Jam?Seriously? :poke:One guy is arguing that putting a pedal in front of a tube amp suddenly makes cease to exist as a tube amp it transforms it into some sort of Martian time machine... and the other guy is arguing with him.Or maybe we can move the thread to an as yet nonexistent 'faulty science and even more faulty logic' forum. A place where republicans business owners don't profit from wars and try to stop them with open dialogue and a place where Democratic leaders mention God other than in concession speeches.Like I said, 'as yet nonexistent'. No offense Bro Blue, but no matter how right you are, there are some arguments you just can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catscurlyear Posted October 19, 2010 Members Share Posted October 19, 2010 I have heard a lot of Fenders that sound like steaming poop running distortion pedals - depending on what pedal it was. he had a couple of boss blues drives in front used for different amounts of dist. i use a blues drive but use it more to drive an already crunchy amp signal .if i had been left to my own devices i could have made that amp sound good ,but i don`t like to mess with other peoples gear at jams, you just take what you get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jrockbridge Posted October 19, 2010 Members Share Posted October 19, 2010 he had a couple of boss blues drives in front used for different amounts of dist. i use a blues drive but use it more to drive an already crunchy amp signal .if i had been left to my own devices i could have made that amp sound good ,but i don`t like to mess with other peoples gear at jams, you just take what you get.It's all about the choice of gear and the way it's used. There are pedals made these days that sound good in front of a clean amp, but not that Boss pedal. A Suhr Riot would work in front of a clean Fender. I've read that a Barber Direct Drive sounds good in front of a clean amp. There's plenty of others as well. I once played next to a guy who had a Fender DRRI....with a Boss MT2 Metal Zone for his crunch. Needless to say, his clean tones were great, but the crunch, not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frets99 Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 I used to think Massachusetts was a solid state. Now it's just gone down the tubes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jrockbridge Posted October 19, 2010 Members Share Posted October 19, 2010 ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frets99 Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 ^ Thank you! Thank You! I'm here every Thursday. Please remember to tip your waitress. They get a little dizzy but it it breaks up their night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 17 Tubes Posted October 19, 2010 Members Share Posted October 19, 2010 Can we get this thread moved to the Amp forum or maybe Guitar Jam? Seriously? :poke: One guy is arguing that putting a pedal in front of a tube amp suddenly makes cease to exist as a tube amp it transforms it into some sort of Martian time machine... and the other guy is arguing with him. Or maybe we can move the thread to an as yet nonexistent 'faulty science and even more faulty logic' forum. A place where republicans business owners don't profit from wars and try to stop them with open dialogue and a place where Democratic leaders mention God other than in concession speeches. Like I said, 'as yet nonexistent'. No offense Bro Blue, but no matter how right you are, there are some arguments you just can't. That isn't what I said. bro is arguing about the FUNCTION of a tube amp when what we were talking about is the CHARACTERISTICS. I say he's wrong and it's an important distinction. People change the CHARACTERISTICS of the amp with certain pedals. It's not just a matter of amplifying a different sound. The amp has electronics that react to the circuits and signal in front of it. If you...say...overload a component you are NOT changing the function but you change the characteristics and qualities of what comes out behind it. It's why people add pedals. Sure...SOME amps will just amplify the signal that is changed from the front...for example...a delay or compression pedal...will likely continue to get amplified. Other times you could actually burn out a component. Tell me THAT isn't changing a "characteristic"...lol. The function of each component will contiue unchanged (unless you burn it up). The CHARACTERISTICS...how any specific component deals with the signal...MAY change. What's amazing to me is you guys BITCHING about a discussion on a discussion forum. Yes...a few minor name-callings, no big deal among ADULTS...but overall some good points made. Whether or not anyone is right or wrong....if you don't want to participate in the discussion on a DISCUSSION FORUM ....move along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the_bleeding Posted October 19, 2010 Members Share Posted October 19, 2010 17 tubes, you're bad at expressing yourself. Pedals dont change the amp. Pedals change the sound. Get it straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Guitar Heel Posted October 19, 2010 Members Share Posted October 19, 2010 So if i eat acid...that won't change my bowels huh? Remind me not to stand next to you when you're eating acid... I keed...I keed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 17 Tubes Posted October 19, 2010 Members Share Posted October 19, 2010 17 tubes, you're bad at expressing yourself.Pedals dont change the amp. Pedals change the sound. Get it straight. SO you're saying I can't blow up a component by blasting the front end? I mostly certainly CAN change the characteristics of what the amp/components do. Give me your amp and I will prove it. Too scared to do that? I've got a few pedals/racks that I'm pretty sure can change the characteristics of your amp....IOW...KILL IT. Come on...take me up on this. PLEASE! LOL you won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members smorgdonkey Posted October 19, 2010 Members Share Posted October 19, 2010 SO you're saying I can't blow up a component by blasting the front end?I mostly certainly CAN change the characteristics of what the amp/components do. Give me your amp and I will prove it. Too scared to do that? I've got a few pedals/racks that I'm pretty sure can change the characteristics of your amp....IOW...KILL IT. Come on...take me up on this. PLEASE! LOL you won't. Wow...dude, you are an i-d-i-o-t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the_bleeding Posted October 20, 2010 Members Share Posted October 20, 2010 SO you're saying I can't blow up a component by blasting the front end?I mostly certainly CAN change the characteristics of what the amp/components do. Give me your amp and I will prove it. Too scared to do that? I've got a few pedals/racks that I'm pretty sure can change the characteristics of your amp....IOW...KILL IT. Come on...take me up on this. PLEASE! LOL you won't. if you blast the front end with another amp, yes. Pedals wont do that, unless you have a very poorly designed amp or poorly designed pedal. But thats a stupid question there bro, and a very poor comparison to to boot. Unless of course you were arguing this all along, which is poor expression and argument skills, because you weren't addressing the original argument in the first place. And no you cant change the characteristics of the amp with a pedal. An amp is set to react to certain stimuli. Stimuli change, reaction changes, but that reaction was always set to happen in the first place by the design of the amp. If i design an amp with an input stage that is set to get dirty at a 1v input, and you feed it a 0.5v input, it will be clean, and will dirty up when you increases the voltage. Does the voltage increase change the amp? No, it changes the input, and the amp reacts accordingly. So yes, running a pedal into the amp will change the end result how the amp reacts, but the amp was going to react that way anyway. You aren't changing the amp, you're changing the stimuli. You are changing what the amp has to work with. The amp stays intact and reacts the same way every time (unless you break it). If you were to physically/fundamentally change the amp, it would not respond consistently What if the input stage can only handle up to 10v? Well technically, that is either the design of the semiconductors, or the tube, but its still design, and if you happen to blow your amp, well that was part (flaw?) of the design too. Okay, so breaking your amp is a fundamental physical change to your amp, but when you PLAY with pedals, you are NOT breaking your amp, and by your logic, therefore you shouldn't be changing it either. THEREFORE you are not changing your amp by playing through pedals. Just the signal that is feeding into the amp. You should learn how tube amps work (i.e. how to design them, and what goes into them, and the physics surrounding it) before you make this argument. You're basing your argument on incomplete knowledge, OR you've just been arguing a bunk argument the entire time, attempting to confuse the purpose of the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bro Blue Posted October 20, 2010 Members Share Posted October 20, 2010 Hell, I give up. I think I am going to defer to cratz's judgment and bow out of this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brown Rug Posted October 20, 2010 Members Share Posted October 20, 2010 So if i eat acid...that won't change my bowels huh? Your body CAN change depending on what you put it into. You change the characteristics...NOT THE FUNCTION (unless you kill it). You can force it to have cancer, you can make parts not work. Now...if you put in the optimal food (signal)...it will repsond very well. A signal isn't just a signal. You can overdrive the rest of the signal chain. It's actually a feedback kind of system. You aren't just changing the front and everything else responds the same. Function /= characteritics. Function remains the same. Characterstics change...not just because of the change in the front, but how the amp responds to those changes. JMHO, of course. Tell ya what....I'll keep my opinion and you keep yours, and we can run our rigs accordingly. And hey...I admit I could be wrong.... Acid? What pedal would {censored} my amp up like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members willyburger Posted October 20, 2010 Members Share Posted October 20, 2010 I used to think Massachusetts was a solid state. Now it's just gone down the tubes...:lol: Now that one was worth waiting for. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jimmy Chitown Posted October 20, 2010 Members Share Posted October 20, 2010 Just wondering--informal poll I guess--has anyone ever, or known of anyone, who has ruined, blown up, fried, damaged, toasted, transmogrified, or let the magic smoke out of a tube (or for that matter, any other) amp, by using, abusing, just plugging in, and/or cranking a pedal? Hmm? Not me. I have to say however, that I have seen a Fender Bandmaster play "Puff the Magic Dragon" with naught but a Les Paul and a cord.Yes, all knobs were set to 99.9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Doctor49 Posted October 20, 2010 Members Share Posted October 20, 2010 Thank you! Thank You! I'm here every Thursday. Please remember to tip your waitress. They get a little dizzy but it it breaks up their night. an excellent second try to slow this down and get the humour back.Sometimes you have to shout though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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