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Wrap around bridge vs Tune-a-matic + Stop bar - Tone difference opinions - Please


GAS Man

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The wives never get it. Unless they play guitar as well. Then you may argue over who gets to play it first.

BTW dirty underwear is where the toanz is. The whole relic thang.

 

Funny, because I remember something like that. I once had a large bosomed (not that it matters but, it helps for the visuals) girlfriend who also played guitar (this was back around '97/'98) and I remember letting her play my PRS CE22. I then pulled it from her hands to have her use another guitar I thought was more appropriate for the song she was playing. She bitched at me for taking the guitar away, I bitched back at her for not appreciating the effort I was going through to let her run through my guitars .. . . . . point being - never truer words spoken. ;)

 

Give me back that PRS! :mad:

 

:lol:

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You quoted me before I slipped in my edit "(with a wrap-around)".


And the auction ended on ebay.



Good News / Bad News.



Bad news: I won it. $$s go :lem: GAS addict
:cry:

Good news: I won it!


$1435 + $65 shipped for what he describes as a minty 1960 VOS LP Jr Spec


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rt=nc&nma=true&item=140469520613&si=CPQ7AKR3UJnBqkXKTANCjBH%252B6JE%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT


Originally he had it as a "Buy It Now" at $1,700 +$65 shipping, but rather than bids, he also had a "Make Offer" option which I took.


At one pt he dropped it down to $1500 BIN, and then raised it back up to $1700 BIN. So I guessed he'd probably be willing to take $1500 and catch the shipping. Unfortunately for my bank account, I was right.

 

Woohoo, lucky you.:thu: Bet you a dollar to a donut that's a Brazilian rosewood board.

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Woohoo, lucky you.
:thu:
Bet you a dollar to a donut that's a Brazilian rosewood board.

 

I just went and checked the MF site and the Gibson site, and they don't spec it other than just saying "rosewood". :idk:

 

The trick now though will be trying to juggle the funds around to have $1500 around to pay off the PayPal bill when it's due in the middle of November. IIRC, the interest rate on there makes it desirable to pay it off somehow.

 

Next year, I'll check myself into one of the twelve step programs. Or maybe 11, well, we'll take it a step at a time. ;)

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I just went and checked the MF site and the Gibson site, and they don't spec it other than just saying "rosewood".
:idk:

 

I was just going by the appearance. I'd say you really got something special there.:love:

 

And don't beat yourself up too bad. You could always sell something on Craigs if it's going to put you in a bind.

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I was just going by the appearance. I'd say you really got something special there.
:love:

And don't beat yourself up too bad. You could always sell something on Craigs if it's going to put you in a bind.

 

Definitely "selling" is something I need to see if I can master as well as "buying".

 

Although after watching that clip of the G-3 wank-fest their way through "La Grange" I think I could part with my Ibanez JS-100. :lol:

 

Any takers? Got DiMazio PAF Pro and Fred installed plus custom fitting Ibanez HSC! Anyone? Anyone?

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^^^^^^^^^

THIS


You can't intonate a wraparound stop bridge.


Re: the nonsense about thicker posts transmitting more vibrations....
:facepalm:

All
Strats have lousy tone b/c of the tremolo bridge, riiiiiiiiight? It's the opposite of two manly post secured tightly in the body!!
:cop::rolleyes:

Why, in a Strat, all the strings are connected to a floating bridge that is attached to springs that absorb all the vibrations before it reaches the body!!
:rolleyes:

 

 

Bullshit. I have an SG with a wrap around bridge and it intonates as well as any of my guitars. Once it is in tune notes all over the neck will light up green. Yes I know, know guitar is perfect...but unless you have perfect pitch I guarantee you could never tell. In fact it's even better if it's done right cause you NEVER have to worry about intonation. If the manufacturer has placed the bridge properly your good to go.

 

Nobody ever said strats have lousy tone because of the trem. You're making a strawman argument.

 

What IS true is that the trem does take up vibrations from the string and lessens the resonance of the body. If you don't think that's true then I'd suggest you probably don't have much experience with both. There is a reason people block their trems if they don't use them.

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Thank you!


For my videos so far, my home practice rig = Ibanez TS-9 Tube Screamer, EHX Holy Grail Reverb, Crate VC 2110

 

 

That doesn't suprise me, the Crate VC series amps are very good. I use to own a VC 5212, for a 50 watt amp it was nearly as loud as my old 100 watt twin reverb + it had very good tone...I used it as a trade in for one of my guitars:facepalm:

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That doesn't suprise me, the Crate VC series amps are very good. I use to own a VC 5212, for a 50 watt amp it was nearly as loud as my old 100 watt twin reverb + it had very good tone...I used it as a trade in for one of my guitars:facepalm:

 

 

I used to have that one too. I sold it when my last band broke up as it was the amp I kept at the practice space. I use my VC 3112 for the stage. I didn't have the space to keep that bigger amp at the time I parted with it.

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Bullshit.


NO, it's not bullshit...If the the wrap around bridge isn't placed perfectly, then the only way you can correct the intonation is by screwing around with the nut...LOTSA LUCK WITH THAT.
:facepalm:


I have an SG with a wrap around bridge and it intonates as well as any of my guitars. Once it is in tune notes all over the neck will light up green. Yes I know, know guitar is perfect...but unless you have perfect pitch I guarantee you could never tell. In fact it's even better if it's done right cause you NEVER have to worry about intonation. If the manufacturer has placed the bridge properly your good to go.


AGREED. But if they
didn't place it properly
, then we get into what I thought we were talking about...i.e., a rational person would choose an adjustable bridge (either by TOM, or adjustment pieces right on the stop bridge).


And, even though someone else said it, I don't think I should have to adjust my playing style (push harder down on the 5th string at the 21st fret, lighter on the 3rd string at the 4th fret, etc., etc...)
.
:facepalm:

Nobody ever said strats have lousy tone because of the trem. You're making a strawman argument.


No, it's a valid counterargument to the poster who said that b/c a wrap around bridge sits on big posts, while a TOM wobbles on little ones, it's worse for the tone. If he believes that, then a tremolo, that connects to the body with tone absorbing springs, should mean the kiss of death, tone wise. And six or two screw
pivots
are just that--pivot points that don't do a thing for the all mighty transference of tone to body. And yet, I don't see too many people badmouthing the tone of a Strat. (Actually, I don't like their tone, but I think it's b/c of the single coils).


What IS true is that the trem does take up vibrations from the string and lessens the resonance of the body. If you don't think that's true then I'd suggest you probably don't have much experience with both.


WTF &
:facepalm:
:facepalm: You agree with my point, and then use it against me???????
There is a reason people block their trems if they don't use them.

 

 

Since I haven't learned how to cut and paste a quote, I had to put my responses in bold

 

I wish someone would make a sticky about how to multi quote, respond to one quote in segments, and how to search the threads!

 

BTW, congrats to the purchaser of the LP special!!

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Bull{censored}. I have an SG with a wrap around bridge and it intonates as well as any of my guitars. Once it is in tune notes all over the neck will light up green. Yes I know, know guitar is perfect...but unless you have perfect pitch I guarantee you could never tell. In fact it's even better if it's done right cause you NEVER have to worry about intonation. If the manufacturer has placed the bridge properly your good to go.


Nobody ever said strats have lousy tone because of the trem. You're making a strawman argument.


What IS true is that the trem does take up vibrations from the string and lessens the resonance of the body. If you don't think that's true then I'd suggest you probably don't have much experience with both. There is a reason people block their trems if they don't use them.

 

Mostly true. A non adjustable wrap bridge is just fine. As I stated before, other things need to be checked and fixed BEFORE you go {censored}ing with your damn bridge! If it's in the right place your good. Most, if not all allow gross movement of the bridge front to back. If you can't get the guitar to intonate with that, you either have major problems or you're just stoopid.

 

And Strat bridges have the springs that resonate, so this is a bit of a trade off. One type of resonance for another.

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NO, it's not bull{censored}...If the the wrap around bridge isn't placed perfectly, then the only way you can correct the intonation is by screwing around with the nut...LOTSA LUCK WITH THAT.


AGREED. But if they didn't place it properly, then we get into what I thought we were talking about...i.e., a rational person would choose an adjustable bridge (either by TOM, or adjustment pieces right on the stop bridge).


And, even though someone else said it, I don't think I should have to adjust my playing style (push harder down on the 5th string at the 21st fret, lighter on the 3rd string at the 4th fret, etc., etc...) .


BTW, congrats to the purchaser of the LP special!!

 

 

You are a glass half empty kinda guy, huh?

 

Luthiers have been placing non-adjustable bridges correctly on the modern Spanish-style electric for 150 years. Every major acoustic guitar major on every price level successfully places hundreds, if not thousands, of non-adjustable bridges every day. And all the acoustic players in the world, which vastly outnumber their electric kin every today, don't seem to gripe about not being able to just for intonation.

 

Bridge placement runs by a few simple mathematical rules of thumb that have been around since long before the electric guitar.

 

Are you really worried that you're going to get the one in a thousand that is misplaced. If you do, return it.

 

Otherwise, since you seem obvious to this...you do know that the wraparound tailpieces are adjustable for scale length, they have a worm screw on each side for fine-tuning.

 

As for you being too lazy to develop an ear and technique to adjust your playing style, well that's just rock and roll. But that's what makes all this laughable in the first place, your guitar is already out of tune with itself and there is nothing you can adjust at the bridge to change that. It's your fingers or tempered frets, the bridge can't help. The problem is the average, taught myself at home" rock guitarist doesn't understand there is no easy answer for intonation for fretted instruments, but they can't hear the problem anyway.

 

As for multi-quoting, just cut and paste the "begin" and "end" quote tags where you need a break.

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The old IF thang is horse hockey. IF a strat, tele, TOM or any type of bridge is not placed correctly you WILL have intonation problems. Not just a wrap. IMO the wrap has as much, or more fudge room as any bridge on the market.

I can move the el cheapo I mentioned earlier about 3/8" front to back. Maybe more. Let's see you do dat with a TOM. Ain't gonna happen. BTW the guitar body that got this bridge is one I built. Located the bridge myself. And I ain't no pro luthier.

I'm done here. Too many bull{censored} specialists.

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Since I haven't learned how to cut and paste a quote, I had to put my responses in
bold


I wish someone would make a sticky about how to multi quote, respond to one quote in segments, and how to search the threads!


BTW, congrats to the purchaser of the LP special!!

 

 

Well wyatt pretty much summed it up.

 

I don't know what guitars you buy, but the builders I buy from know how to place a bridge properly.

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Well wyatt pretty much summed it up.


I don't know what guitars you buy, but the builders I buy from know how to place a bridge properly.

 

 

Oh, I'm not saying there isn't a mistake made.

 

For instance the TOM was placed about 1.5mm to far to the treble side on my '72 LP. I had to file grooves in the saddles to compensate. One of these days I will just pull the bridge posts, fill the holes and locate it correctly though. With the ABR-1 the thumbwheels will hide the old holes.

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Oh, I'm not saying there isn't a mistake made.


For instance the TOM was placed about 1.5mm to far to the treble side on my '72 LP. I had to file grooves in the saddles to compensate. One of these days I will just pull the bridge posts, fill the holes and locate it correctly though. With the ABR-1 the thumbwheels will hide the old holes.

 

 

A norlin gibson? That was kind of my point. lol. Not to come off as arrogant about it but I think you'd probably almost never come across a problem like that on a Greco, Tokai, Navigator etc.... That's just simply the kind of stuff they are anal about.

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A norlin gibson? That was kind of my point. lol. Not to come off as arrogant about it but I think you'd probably almost never come across a problem like that on a Greco, Tokai, Navigator etc.... That's just simply the kind of stuff they are anal about.

 

 

Perhaps, but the bridge alignment is a ultimately a trifle. And my guitar is still a damn nice Kalamazoo-made, 9 lb., non-weight-relieved Gold Top; stock aluminum tailpiece; correct goldtop paint; same vintage inlay material that Gibson can't replicate now; waxy and almost pore-free Brazilian RW fretboard (at least as far as any of the experts can determine); etc. And all for $650 when I bought it in 1993, last offer on it from a dealer was $3000 or my choice of Historics.

 

And it's not a copy, it's not a collector's piece, but it's not a copy. I'd still take a Van Gogh doodle over an expert copiest's version of Starry night.

 

Ultimately, perfection=generic and boring. I'll take the imperfections that make things unique.

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Perhaps, but the bridge alignment is a ultimately a trifle. And my guitar is still a damn nice Kalamazoo-made, 9 lb., non-weight-relieved Gold Top; stock aluminum tailpiece; correct goldtop paint; same vintage inlay material that Gibson can't replicate now; waxy and almost pore-free Brazilian RW fretboard (at least as far as any of the experts can determine); etc. And all for $650 when I bought it in 1993, last offer on it from a dealer was $3000 or my choice of Historics.


And it's not a copy, it's not a collector's piece, but it's not a copy. I'd still take a Van Gogh doodle over an expert copiest's version of Starry night.


Ultimately, perfection=generic and boring. I'll take the imperfections that make things unique.

 

 

Sounds like a great guitar....Look I'm not one who thinks every single norlin was bad. Obviously that's not true. You got one of the gems I guess. But I also don't believe there are as many norlin "gems" out there as current trends would have us believe.

 

As for the copy thing you are entitled to your opinion, but I disagree. Because of their attention to detail I believe those companies have captured the exact magic of the originals. Something G and F seem to have a hell of a time trying to do. And the Japanese have captured that magic consistently for over thirty years now. In my opinion those companies have carved out their own uniqueness by the very nature of the quality they build.

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  • 10 years later...
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Old topic, anyway... I just build six guitars, all different wood compinations, but the model baseline was somewhere LP -PSR line modified  and I  swapped 8 bridges in everyone and tested. Every guitar was tested 9 different pickup pairs, and I got my life to spent. Wraparound (all adjustable, except cheap wilkinson gtb) was always the best, I did not find any reason to use tom except if you want it to look '59' or you think it feels or sounds better to you. I tried different music types and  amps. The difference was smallest, when using darker pickups, but there isn't so much ' power' in vibrations with tom- Almost every guitar, I could feel the guitar vibrations on my body, but not so much with toms. The guitar without amp was 'louder' most of tones with wraparound. Harder picking, smaller difference. And if some wants to argue, two of the guitars we're left handed and the wind was south and stable.
 There is no better or worse in guitar bridges or pickups etc. One likes the daughter, one likes the mother. But one thing is sure - The guitar 'facts' recline mostly in myths and rumors than anything. And then there is the oldschool which says 'LP59' is the only right one. Well, I prefer '59 caddy over the newer cars, but I would not says it is the best car in anyway. It just is the best for me...  And since I have problems with my hands, I noticed, tom needs a bit more tension. Wrap stays better in tune and is more solid, if you use bendings. 
 If human wants to believe in something he hears differences even there is none. Human wants to believe that his/her/X point is right, even there is no right or wrong, better or worse.. I made these tests openminded, just to select best gear to guitars. Ramdom clicking soundfiles on computer was good a way to do testing.
 We can't argue for any opinion, since mine is always right. Right?
 

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