Off topic: Amy Winehouse: a cautionary tale...

[sabriel9v]

Dude, I could totally do without the condescension. "Race Records" were made largely by and for an African-American audience. What this has to do with the mass marketing of an English singer with a multi-racial band escapes me. But whatever. You don't have to be rude, I was just trying to understand whatever point you were trying to make, but I don't really care anymore.

 

Just think about it. She's an English singer singing music that's stems from black roots and culture and she has a multi racial band. It's the labels way of introducing a soulful singer to not only white audiences, but also to people of color. That's why having a multi ethnic band works to her advantage. She can play both sides of the field. Floetry, Georgia Anne Muldrow, Amel Larrieux and countless others have done the same thing. Its just a poppier version of neo soul, but can be branded to everyone. Honestly, a race record is nothing, but a record that caters to a certain ethnic group. It's not just African American anymore.

[BlueStrat]

 

Just think about it. She's an English singer singing music that's stems from black roots and culture and she has a multi racial band. It's the labels way of introducing a soulful singer to not only white audiences, but also to people of color. That's why having a multi ethnic band works to her advantage. She can play both sides of the field. Floetry, Georgia Anne Muldrow, Amel Larrieux and countless others have done the same thing. Its just a poppier version of neo soul, but can be branded to everyone. Honestly, a race record is nothing, but a record that caters to a certain ethnic group. It's not just African American anymore.

 

 

So what?

[BATCAT]

 

That's why having a multi ethnic band works to her advantage. She can play both sides of the field.

 

 

No, the fact that she has the Dap Kings as her band- who are {censored}ing amazing players- is what's to her advantage. Honestly, anyone doing that kind of music would kill to have that band backing them. The Dap Kings would get work if they wore freakin' Chewbacca suits... I'd never call what they play watered-down R&B.

 

Also, I'm sorry, but I don't think you understand the term "race record". Or at least, you're creating your own definition.

[5THSINGER]

 

I have no sympathy for her, other than to say it's sad to see someone destroy themselves. It's very much like looking at the car wreck of an idiot that recklessly sped by you minutes ago. It even angers me a bit when I see people waste their talents, and good fortune, in this difficult business, only to pi$$ it away. It's nothing new. You'd think current celebs would learn from the mistakes of those that died before them. http://www.whenwillamywinehousedie.com/ Goodbye Amy. I hope you find help, but I wouldn't bet on it.

 

 

I totally agree....I have ZERO pity for this wench!!!

[Dean Roddey]

Hopefully you get more if you should end up in not so great condition one day.

[mickeydean]

 

I'm not answering that question because it'll go over your head. But they totally had race records in the 50s and the 60s. To some extent, there are even race records now. But thats off topic from this thread.

 

 

if she you think she shares anything in common with nora jones and fiona apple you may be thinking of gender not genre.

 

in that case i agree and i would totaly do two out of the three and even the third with adequate protection.

[Ballfuzz]

She sounds like she'd be fun to party with!

[Jarick]

Back to Black seems more like a conscious throwback album; her older one is more interesting to me. I thought her voice was better and the songs less obsessed with drugs. And I also like the more modern production.

[HCarlH]

 

I have no sympathy for her, other than to say it's sad to see someone destroy themselves. It's very much like looking at the car wreck of an idiot that recklessly sped by you minutes ago. It even angers me a bit when I see people waste their talents, and good fortune, in this difficult business, only to pi$$ it away. It's nothing new. You'd think current celebs would learn from the mistakes of those that died before them. http://www.whenwillamywinehousedie.com/ Goodbye Amy. I hope you find help, but I wouldn't bet on it.

 

 

+1

 

I've never heard her music....and I only know about her because of this crap she's doing. Time for the media to focus on musicians who aren't losers.

[BATCAT]

+1 I've never heard her music....and I only know about her because of this crap she's doing. Time for the media to focus on musicians who aren't losers.

 

Yeah, like Billie Holiday, Miles Davis, Janis Joplin, Keith Richards, David Bowie, and...

 

...oh, wait.

[bigdaddydave]

I know the OP said not to debate her talent, but...

 

I don't think she has any-and her music is an example of how low the bar is these days. If it weren't for her self-destructive behavior, her stint in the music business would have been short and relatively painless. Like Britney, however, her 15 minutes is being extended by our tabloid culture-the thing is, is that like Britney, if we stop looking at her, she'll go away. So her handlers have to make sure that we are looking at her as often as possible. And so we will keep looking at her until she's dead and the vultures have picked her bones clean and moved on to another victim. Music's got nothing to do with it at this point-she's moved on to being famous for being famous.

 

BTW, Norah Jones has more talent in her pinky nail than Amy Winehouse has in her whole body (IMO).

[kurdy]

 

I know the OP said not to debate her talent, but... I don't think she has any-and her music is an example of how low the bar is these days. If it weren't for her self-destructive behavior, her stint in the music business would have been short and relatively painless. Like Britney, however, her 15 minutes is being extended by our tabloid culture-the thing is, is that like Britney, if we stop looking at her, she'll go away. So her handlers have to make sure that we are looking at her as often as possible. And so we will keep looking at her until she's dead and the vultures have picked her bones clean and moved on to another victim. Music's got nothing to do with it at this point-she's moved on to being famous for being famous. BTW, Norah Jones has more talent in her pinky nail than Amy Winehouse has in her whole body (IMO).

 

 

I respectfully disagree. Amy Winehouse does get a lot of negative tabloid press, but unlike Britney, she is a great songwriter and musician who is actually involved in the creation of her music. I guess it's strikes a nerve, because actual talent is becoming rarer and rarer in the mainstream these days. It really is a shame to see someone like that be so self-destructive. It's a shame to see anyone be that self-destrucitve.

 

I'm not going to play who's more talented game, but I'd say Norah and Amy are on par with each other. Norah is more a song interpreter in the tradition of Bille Holiday, while Amy writes most of her own stuff. But they both do what they do really well.

[Booya Tribe]

I honestly had never heard of Amy Winehouse before this thread because I have next to zero interest in pop music, but I think it is sad to hear anyone saying that someone deserved to have their life destroyed, and it is just as sad to see the gawking that happens for people like this. I wish people would reflect on why they receive pleasure at the suffering and degradation of others.

 

Drug abuse of this sort comes down to an addiction to pleasure that everyone has to one degree or another. For some people plopping down and watching TV, playing a video game, surfing the net, buying things, or any other countless number of "entertainments" resolve that. For others the search for a thrill becomes more severe and dangerous as the dissatisfaction within that person becomes stronger. It comes down to the level of stability and innate happiness within a person, which most people have little to no personal inventory of.

 

For anyone who has not understood the cause of pain and dissatisfaction inside of them, there is no guarantee that they will not end up like that. You don't know what twists life will throw at you and in what situation you will find yourself next.

[BATCAT]

 

I respectfully disagree. Amy Winehouse does get a lot of negative tabloid press, but unlike Britney, she is a great songwriter and musician who is actually involved in the creation of her music. I guess it's strikes a nerve, because actual talent is becoming rarer and rarer in the mainstream these days. It really is a shame to see someone like that be so self-destructive. It's a shame to see anyone be that self-destrucitve. I'm not going to play who's more talented game, but I'd say Norah and Amy are on par with each other. Norah is more a song interpreter in the tradition of Bille Holiday, while Amy writes most of her own stuff. But they both do what they do really well.

 

 

For sure. Amy Winehouse is a songwriter, plays guitar,and has a killer band.

 

Britney is something different altogether, although I find it really distasteful to hear people go on slagging her in the (rather vicious) manner they often do. It's not Britney's fault that the consumer often prefers prefab pop to more substantial stuff. She does her thing, we chose to buy it.

 

The fact that we have bad taste is really not a very good excuse for us to play out a mob-mentality-style pile-on now that Britney's at a low point. I'm not really sure what she or Amy Winehouse ever did to cause any of us any pain. Actually, after the viciousness that's been directed at both, I think they are probably the ones who are entitles to be pissed.

[Dean Roddey]

Taking it for what it is, Brittany's latest album had some interesting stuff on it. She's never going to be Janis Joplin, but you have to judge things within the genre they are being created within. There's nothing wrong with some poppy, dancy, uber-produced stuff once in a while. I don't have the album, but I've heard some cuts from it on the radio and it wasn't anywhere near as bad as what I'd have thought listening to the way people snipe at her. But, then again, I'm musical ho and I like all kinds of stuff.

[BlueStrat]

 

I honestly had never heard of Amy Winehouse before this thread because I have next to zero interest in pop music, but I think it is sad to hear anyone saying that someone deserved to have their life destroyed, and it is just as sad to see the gawking that happens for people like this. I wish people would reflect on why they receive pleasure at the suffering and degradation of others. Drug abuse of this sort comes down to an addiction to pleasure that everyone has to one degree or another. For some people plopping down and watching TV, playing a video game, surfing the net, buying things, or any other countless number of "entertainments" resolve that. For others the search for a thrill becomes more severe and dangerous as the dissatisfaction within that person becomes stronger. It comes down to the level of stability and innate happiness within a person, which most people have little to no personal inventory of. For anyone who has not understood the cause of pain and dissatisfaction inside of them, there is no guarantee that they will not end up like that. You don't know what twists life will throw at you and in what situation you will find yourself next.

 

 

+1000

 

People derserve compassion simplybecause they are human beings, if for no other reason.

 

I was addicted to drugs and alcohol in a big way and could easily be where she is or dead myself. Fortunately for me, many years ago some people who had enough compassion for me to tell me the truth unflinchingly and steer me toward help even if it cost them my friendship approached me and changed my life.

[kurdy]

 

Taking it for what it is, Brittany's latest album had some interesting stuff on it. She's never going to be Janis Joplin, but you have to judge things within the genre they are being created within. There's nothing wrong with some poppy, dancy, uber-produced stuff once in a while. I don't have the album, but I've heard some cuts from it on the radio and it wasn't anywhere near as bad as what I'd have thought listening to the way people snipe at her. But, then again, I'm musical ho and I like all kinds of stuff.

 

 

True. I think there's a mentality nowadays where people are quick to dismiss certain music as garbage, simply because the person whose picture and name is on the CD cover had little to do with the music inside. It's kind of disparaging to all the writers and producers who worked their butt off to put the project together. Britney's music is not deep or profound in the least bit, but then again, neither was Motown. That doesn't stop anyone from recognizing the talents of Holland/Dozier/Holland, or the Funk Brothers. I don't really pay attention to Britney's latest stuff, but some of her early hits were solid pop songs, even if it may not be everybody's thing. Max Martin & company were really good songwriters/producers.

[bigdaddydave]

 

I respectfully disagree. Amy Winehouse does get a lot of negative tabloid press, but unlike Britney, she is a great songwriter and musician who is actually involved in the creation of her music. I guess it's strikes a nerve, because actual talent is becoming rarer and rarer in the mainstream these days. It really is a shame to see someone like that be so self-destructive. It's a shame to see anyone be that self-destrucitve. I'm not going to play who's more talented game, but I'd say Norah and Amy are on par with each other. Norah is more a song interpreter in the tradition of Bille Holiday, while Amy writes most of her own stuff. But they both do what they do really well.

 

 

I wasn't comparing Amy and Britney musically-I was saying that at this point neither one of them are known for their music or whatever talent they may have-they're tabloid stars now, known for their "controversial self-destructive behavior." Unfortunately, in order to remain in the public eye, they have to continue being self-destructive, with predictable results.

 

It's also important to understand that nothing in the entertainment business happens by chance. Everything you see on "Entertainment Tonight" or "TMZ" has been carefully orchestrated by PR people. The reason 50 photographers know where Britney is at all times is because her PR people tell them where she's going to be. Part of Amy's marketing plan from the beginning has been the image of the "self-destructive tortured artist." That has begun to catch up with her, and what is so sad is that the people on her payroll are probably not doing a damn thing to stop her because they're riding the gravy train all the way to the end of the line. It's a dangerous situation when the only people around you are the ones whose paychecks you sign-just ask Michael Jackson.

 

As for the Norah/Amy comparison, I'll concede that it's more of a matter of personal taste than who is more talented. I think it's telling, though, that Norah is known for being a great singer, good pianist, and a good song writer (she's written most of the songs on her last two albums), while Amy is mostly known for being a pathetic junkie on the fast track to the cemetery. Some artists don't need the tabloids to have success.

[Jarick]

I'd listen to Winehouse over Norah any day of the week. That crap is elevator music to my ears. Just one man's opinion.

[kurdy]

 

I wasn't comparing Amy and Britney musically-I was saying that at this point neither one of them are known for their music or whatever talent they may have-they're tabloid stars now, known for their "controversial self-destructive behavior." Unfortunately, in order to remain in the public eye, they have to continue being self-destructive, with predictable results.

 

 

Sorry, I don't buy that artists must be self-destructive in order to remain in the public eye. Christina Aguilera was one of Britney's closest contemporaries, and the two were compared most often in the press. You never hear about Christina doing anything pathetic or dangerous (and if she does, her people are doing a good job of keeping it under wraps), yet her career still soars. If artists are known more for their pathetic behavior than their music, that's something they brought on themselves. And it's more likely to end their career than help it.

 

And addiction is a tricky issue, even for people who aren't famous. Even family members have a hard time being able to step in and say "stop destroying yourself", never mind a manager or personal assistant. It isn't a situation that can be easily controlled. If record companies had a choice of stopping the behavior, I'm sure they would, because they don't want to run the risk of losing one of their money makers. Nobody really benefits from addiction.

[Lurko]

I love Back in Black!

 

Givin' the Dog a Bone...Yeoowww!

[BATCAT]

I love Back in Black! Givin' the Dog a Bone...Yeoowww!

 

I wasn't sure if I'd tire of BtB with repeated listens, but I'm finding that, while I was on the fence about it at first, Im growing to really like it.

 

A lot of people seem to dismiss it as too superficial, or as an easy listen, but I don't really get that. Underneath the agility of the music, I find it a really dark, almost harrowing, album overall.

[mjb1967@hotmail]

 

I honestly had never heard of Amy Winehouse before this thread because I have next to zero interest in pop music, but I think it is sad to hear anyone saying that someone deserved to have their life destroyed, and it is just as sad to see the gawking that happens for people like this. I wish people would reflect on why they receive pleasure at the suffering and degradation of others. Drug abuse of this sort comes down to an addiction to pleasure that everyone has to one degree or another. For some people plopping down and watching TV, playing a video game, surfing the net, buying things, or any other countless number of "entertainments" resolve that. For others the search for a thrill becomes more severe and dangerous as the dissatisfaction within that person becomes stronger. It comes down to the level of stability and innate happiness within a person, which most people have little to no personal inventory of. For anyone who has not understood the cause of pain and dissatisfaction inside of them, there is no guarantee that they will not end up like that. You don't know what twists life will throw at you and in what situation you will find yourself next.

 

 

+++1,000,000

 

what ever happened to boyah tribe anyway

[bigdaddydave]

 

Sorry, I don't buy that artists must be self-destructive in order to remain in the public eye. Christina Aguilera was one of Britney's closest contemporaries, and the two were compared most often in the press. You never hear about Christina doing anything pathetic or dangerous (and if she does, her people are doing a good job of keeping it under wraps), yet her career still soars. If artists are known more for their pathetic behavior than their music, that's something they brought on themselves. And it's more likely to end their career than help it.

 

 

I agree completely-and this was the point of my previous post. It's not necessary to be self-destructive to be in the public eye, but it's one way of achieving that goal. Unfortunately, self-destructive behavior has a price, but when it's selling records, it can be hard to stop-even for the artist.

 

I'm a bit incredulous at the notion that her record company (don't know who that is) "wants to help but can't." I find it hard to believe that a multi-national corporation with deep pockets that can influence Congress can't get Amy Winehouse into rehab. She's not going to be a "money maker" for very long if she's so {censored}ed up she can't write, record, or tour. And when she does burn herself out, there's a long line of people waiting to take her place. And it's a helluva lot cheaper to start over with a new victim than to take a chance on an unreliable crackhead.

 

Look, the entertainment industry is a rough, often indecent business-so it's illogical to expect the people who run it to behave decently. AW's label "cares" about her as long as she's making money. When she stops making money, they will toss her aside and move on. The history of rock n roll tells this same story over and over-from Frankie Lymon to Kurt Cobain and a thousand others you've never heard of.

 

BTW Kurdy, I've enjoyed our discussion-it's the reason I hang out here!

[Ides of March]

Number 1, I think this whole thing with Britney Spears is a bunch of {censored}e.. Going to the looney bin leaving, going back, dating a paparazzi douche, doing all that dumb {censored}e publically. I believe she is just trying to stay in the eye of the public so she doesn't get forgotten. Her music will fade I believe. And to be honest, Spears should count her bleesings she is good looking because other than that she has nothing to offer except being pretty.

 

Amy Winehouse is a talent in my op. I don't like r and b or that sissy dance pop {censored}e but I did buy Back to Black and I dug it very much. And it is a shame that she has this addiction but ya know maybe if the media and press put as much of an effort into helping her get off of drugs as they do exploiting her disease and making fun of her she would have a better chance of being clean.