Members philbo Posted March 27, 2011 Members Share Posted March 27, 2011 I just finished this thing, and would appreciate any feedback on the mix or mastering... You guys have both the ears and the chops to tell what could be better; I find it hard to be objective when I did everything on this one except the drumming. Bad Woman Blues If this is too 'spamalicious', let me know & I'll ask Craig to delete the thread. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted March 27, 2011 Members Share Posted March 27, 2011 Hi Philbo, I think that the majority of the mix sounds great! The only complaint I have is that the drums sound pretty thin and anemic, especially in comparison to how nice everything else sounds. I think they need a little more love, and it'll make a big difference to the overall sound of the track. The vocal in particular sounds really rich and thick. What mic were you using, what effects and such? Sounds great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted March 27, 2011 Members Share Posted March 27, 2011 Agreed on the drums... you can just barely hear them. They need to be way lots louder. I mean, like, 3 or 4 times louder, to my way of thinking. For an arrangement like this, I think I'd like to hear each element about equally weighted in the mix. As it is, the vocals are a little too loud, the guitars about right, although I think you could ride the lead up when it's not in conflict with the vocals and get a little more of a steady flow. You might also give some serious thought into getting a lot more stereo feel going. Even if it sounds 'unbalanced' to you, I'd consider putting the rhythm guitar on one side and the lead on the other. Everything doesn't have to be 'balanced' all the time, stereo-wise. And it should really open things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted March 27, 2011 Members Share Posted March 27, 2011 i didnt care for the yodel like vibrato or off key singing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted March 28, 2011 Members Share Posted March 28, 2011 i didnt care for the yodel like vibrato or off key singing. +1 I know you didn`t ask about the actual performance but I feel like this style of vocal does not go naturally with the singer. There are several phrases/nuances that seem completely out of character. Is it you? I understand its the "blues" but there are more moments when its not the blues that makes the other parts sound strange... does that make any sense? In other words, I am not convinced by the vocal performance. I would sing it more naturally or get someone who can do this from start to finish with a true authentic tone. Depends on what you`re planning to do with this... Also, I agree with Lee, drums need to come up a bit more. I like the simple bass and I think the drums could come up another 2-3 dbs and support the rhythm a bit more than it currently is. I enjoyed the tune! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members techristian Posted March 28, 2011 Members Share Posted March 28, 2011 And then we all have to consider what we a listening on. This laptop, for instance, has almost NO BASS, but it always sounds like that. ...............Now after listening with the headphones, I would say to turn up the drums.....but also remember that I'm a drummer. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lukenskywalker Posted March 28, 2011 Members Share Posted March 28, 2011 I got an early 'Jack Brucey' type of Cream sound from your vocals...the mix, I'll concur with your contemporaries/forumites posting here...more bottom needed fo' sure. Bass Guitar is 'meat and potatoes' substanscial, with no frills.IMHO you have a very good voice, with good range... I think Lee Flier mentioned that...I don't think you went flat at all as another poster mentioned.... The 'bluesy' growls seem a bit contrived. I think that was what Ernest Buckley was alluding to, It seems like you were trying a bit to hard to get all the sounds and nuances you wanted on the take...maybe you were pressured or trying a bit too hard to 'git 'er done'.? I think once you start to really play this song for awhile, all those good ideas are gonna come together fluidly and it's going to be a kick ass 'signature' sound/song of yours. BTW It is a good 'from the heart song', I'm always a 'pigeon' for blues in Minor...also the bridge goes back to my original preface of your tune; Blues with an English 'Creamy' type take. Thanks for sharing. Luke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members russrags Posted March 28, 2011 Members Share Posted March 28, 2011 Sounds like Mono to me ... I have two ears, and you've got more than one instrument. RussNashville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted March 29, 2011 Members Share Posted March 29, 2011 The 'bluesy' growls seem a bit contrived. I think that was what Ernest Buckley was alluding to, It seems like you were trying a bit to hard to get all the sounds and nuances you wanted on the take...maybe you were pressured or trying a bit too hard to 'git 'er done'.? Thanks for sharing. Luke Yes, exactly Luke, thanks for reading my mind and translating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philbo Posted March 29, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 29, 2011 Hi Philbo,I think that the majority of the mix sounds great! The only complaint I have is that the drums sound pretty thin and anemic, especially in comparison to how nice everything else sounds. I think they need a little more love, and it'll make a big difference to the overall sound of the track.The vocal in particular sounds really rich and thick. What mic were you using, what effects and such? Sounds great! Thanks Lee.I'll work the drums a bit more... The vocal mic was a cheap dynamic stage mic, an Audio Technica P610. (I got the mic, a stand, and a 30ft cord for $50.) I always did like the sound of it, though. I went back and bought another soon after. The vocal track inserts were a Paris EQ and simple compressor that came with Reaper, plus a send to a reverb bus that was set pretty quiet. The only other processing was a light touch on the whole mix with a compressor and 4-band EQ. If I get happy with all the tracks & put together a new mix, I'm considering dragging out the ol' Teac 3340S and bouncing the mix through the tape instead of using a compressor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philbo Posted March 29, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 29, 2011 Agreed on the drums... you can just barely hear them. They need to be way lots louder. I mean, like, 3 or 4 times louder, to my way of thinking. For an arrangement like this, I think I'd like to hear each element about equally weighted in the mix. As it is, the vocals are a little too loud, the guitars about right, although I think you could ride the lead up when it's not in conflict with the vocals and get a little more of a steady flow. You might also give some serious thought into getting a lot more stereo feel going. Even if it sounds 'unbalanced' to you, I'd consider putting the rhythm guitar on one side and the lead on the other. Everything doesn't have to be 'balanced' all the time, stereo-wise. And it should really open things up. Thanks for the comments Blue. I did think the vocal was a bit hot (in fact, the mix file was named 'Vocal Up'), but always considered the vocal the most important element of this song. Your point about the sax leads is well taken. I did have some channels panned out, but will give it another listen to see if more extreme panning would serve the song.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philbo Posted March 29, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 29, 2011 i didnt care for the yodel like vibrato or off key singing. Thanks for listening, Coaster. Don't know what to tell you... I intentionally put a lot of glissandos in the vocal; I liked the impact it made. The yodeling thing might be genetic, since I'm a switzer... (3 of 4 grandparents were Swiss). I'll carefully consider seeing just how off-pitch it is; if it needs redoing, it'll get redone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philbo Posted March 29, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 29, 2011 Thanks for the feedback, EB. I can only say I was singing what I felt. (Maybe I felt off-key?) I spent an hour meditating on how I felt when it happened, then took about 3 takes. The 3rd one was the one I used. Again, I'll think over redoing the vocal.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philbo Posted March 29, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 29, 2011 And then we all have to consider what we a listening on. This laptop, for instance, has almost NO BASS, but it always sounds like that. ...............Now after listening with the headphones, I would say to turn up the drums.....but also remember that I'm a drummer. Dan Thanks Dan. Yep, I get that a lot on this one... I'll work it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philbo Posted March 29, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 29, 2011 I got an early 'Jack Brucey' type of Cream sound from your vocals...the mix, I'll concur with your contemporaries/forumites posting here...more bottom needed fo' sure. Bass Guitar is 'meat and potatoes' substanscial, with no frills.IMHO you have a very good voice, with good range... I think Lee Flier mentioned that...I don't think you went flat at all as another poster mentioned.... The 'bluesy' growls seem a bit contrived. I think that was what Ernest Buckley was alluding to, It seems like you were trying a bit to hard to get all the sounds and nuances you wanted on the take...maybe you were pressured or trying a bit too hard to 'git 'er done'.?I think once you start to really play this song for awhile, all those good ideas are gonna come together fluidly and it's going to be a kick ass 'signature' sound/song of yours.BTW It is a good 'from the heart song', I'm always a 'pigeon' for blues in Minor...also the bridge goes back to my original preface of your tune; Blues with an English 'Creamy' type take. Thanks for sharing. Luke Thanks Luke. I'm really glad you enjoyed it; that's the purpose. I'm flattered to be compared to Mr. JB. The growl thing was probably just me trying too hard; I was feeling it, but I guess the feeling wasn't translating well. I think once you start to really play this song for awhile, all those good ideas are gonna come together fluidly and it's going to be a kick ass 'signature' sound/song of yours. You have a point there; though I wrote it in the late '70s, I've never done this one live yet. Maybe I'll bust it out Saturday night & see if some other ideas on it start to gel a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philbo Posted March 29, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 29, 2011 Sounds like Mono to me ... I have two ears, and you've got more than one instrument.RussNashville Thanks Russ. You're not the first one to mention it (see Blue's post). I'll have to play with that a bit & see what comes out of it. Well, at least it'll collapse to mono well... maybe too well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philbo Posted March 29, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 29, 2011 To all: I appreciate you taking time to do this. It is exactly the type of feedback I was looking for to get me back on track (no pun intended) with this tune. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted March 29, 2011 Members Share Posted March 29, 2011 I agree with some of the comments here regarding the mix, especially the anemic sound of the drums and the vocals being a little bit too loud (on top of the mix). I'd love to hear them sunken in to the mix a little bit more while still being discernible (clear). I also think that there's not enough clarity and "ooomph" in the guitar. I keep wanting to hear more definition. It's not just a matter of panning it to one side and the sax to the other, although that might help. It's getting a little more separation from the two, and also just having a sense of the strings being played. Listen to how clear the guitar is in the intro, but the minute everything kicks in, you almost can't tell what instrument is playing. I'd suspect that a little bit of EQ could bring this out, as there might be some frequency masking going on, often the case if the guitar sounds great on its own but disappears in the mix. The bass lacks a bit of definition. I don't know whether this is the sound of the bass when it was recorded (probably), but I would love to hear more definition and less mud and thuddiness. And finally, I've tried not to comment on the performance because you asked about the mix, but the drums are a bit out of time, including on some of the fills, and I do think that the shifting time of the drums - maybe the rhythm section - adversely impacts a mix. I don't feel like they are completely grooving together, and that can sometimes make it more difficult to mix. You can hear that the bass and the drums, including the kick drum, are really battling each other at times. There are numerous times in the song when the bass and the kick don't hit tightly when they come in on the "1". I guess I'm extra picky here because in addition to it adversely affecting the groove and mix, in my opinion, I notice this because I like the general vibe of this song and the vocals. Personally, I like the growls. There you have it. I hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted March 29, 2011 Members Share Posted March 29, 2011 Agreed on the drums... you can just barely hear them. They need to be way lots louder. I mean, like, 3 or 4 times louder, to my way of thinking. For an arrangement like this, I think I'd like to hear each element about equally weighted in the mix. As it is, the vocals are a little too loud, the guitars about right, although I think you could ride the lead up when it's not in conflict with the vocals and get a little more of a steady flow. You might also give some serious thought into getting a lot more stereo feel going. Even if it sounds 'unbalanced' to you, I'd consider putting the rhythm guitar on one side and the lead on the other. Everything doesn't have to be 'balanced' all the time, stereo-wise. And it should really open things up. I agree with everything here. I forgot to say that I like the way the sax sinks into the mix. It's about right. The guitar level is about right, I think, but lacks definition, in my opinion. Possibly panning the rhythm guitar to the left and having a little bit of slap to the right might help things out a bit, but in either case, it just needs definition. But then again, maybe I'm thinking that much of what's going on here could needs greater definition. I'm not saying one of those ultra-squeaky clean sorts of mixes, either, but just more definition in the bass and guitar, and more oomph on the drums, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted March 29, 2011 Members Share Posted March 29, 2011 About the vocal - if there's anything about the track that brings something new to the blues, I'd say the vocal is where it's at. Not that the vocal is perfect, but it's, to me at least, by far the most interesting thing going on. Kind of a baritone sad-basset hound vibe - a drunk David Bowie sound- hey, there's some real blues feel coming through. So I'd be careful messing too radically with the vocal style-wise...but in terms of the mix, if it were my track, I'd back the vocal down into the mix a bit, smear it up a bit with some reverb. I think that would soften the first impression of "oddity" that the vocal imparts. And ride the fader to smooth out the volume at bit more. In terms of the vocal style itself - all my instincts say, accentuate the unique quality you're developing, don't play it safe in order to avoid putting people off. Your pipes are closing up and sound squeezed on some of the higher notes - if you can relax a bit and keep the from tightening up and blocking air all the way through, that might take away some of the "forced" impressions mentioned. I think you're onto something, got some work to do, keep it up! nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted March 29, 2011 Members Share Posted March 29, 2011 Thanks for the feedback, EB. I can only say I was singing what I felt. (Maybe I felt off-key?) I spent an hour meditating on how I felt when it happened, then took about 3 takes. The 3rd one was the one I used. Again, I'll think over redoing the vocal.... At no point during the song did I feel the vocals were out of tune, I just felt that some of your "blues" inspired vocals were a bit forced; they did not sound natural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted March 30, 2011 Members Share Posted March 30, 2011 In terms of the vocal style itself - all my instincts say, accentuate the unique quality you're developing, don't play it safe in order to avoid putting people off. ^^ This 1 billion times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudolf von Hagenwil Posted March 30, 2011 Members Share Posted March 30, 2011 Best mix I ever heard !!! Craig, where is the bow emoticon? Btw, I miss several emoticons to express my feelings in a general and worldwide understandable way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lukenskywalker Posted March 30, 2011 Members Share Posted March 30, 2011 I was listening to Philbos track last night, then listened to CooterBown and his band for awhile... and got to thinking how cool it would be to see these two guys on the same stage in a club where you can buy cold beer and some hot whiskey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted March 30, 2011 Members Share Posted March 30, 2011 In terms of the vocal style itself - all my instincts say, accentuate the unique quality you're developing, don't play it safe in order to avoid putting people off. Totally agree. I like the vocal, warts and all. I think it just needs to be down in the mix just a hair, as others have been saying, and the drums need to come up and be a little thicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.