Members paul6string Posted January 10, 2011 Members Share Posted January 10, 2011 Speaking strictly about recorded guitar tones:Iron Maiden "Killers"or first albumJudas Priest "British Steel"VH "1" or "2" etc.. High Gain, or Mid Gain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members d_dave_c Posted January 10, 2011 Members Share Posted January 10, 2011 yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members k tone Posted January 10, 2011 Members Share Posted January 10, 2011 +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members paul6string Posted January 10, 2011 Author Members Share Posted January 10, 2011 yes Jeezus F..ng Christ! Yes to what? Note: Don't take my rant personally if you haven't read my last thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JRicoC Posted January 10, 2011 Members Share Posted January 10, 2011 I don't know what "the first time" was, but I can't believe this is the "improved" version ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members paul6string Posted January 10, 2011 Author Members Share Posted January 10, 2011 I don't know what "the first time" was, but I can't believe this is the "improved" version ... I asked about High Gain vs. Medium Gain, and where the line is drawn. I got a whole bunch of intentionally useless answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members paul6string Posted January 10, 2011 Author Members Share Posted January 10, 2011 I asked about High Gain vs. Medium Gain, and where the line is drawn. I got a whole bunch of intentionally useless answers. Actually it wasn't a bunch of intentionally useless answers, but at least one forumite went out of his way to sound like an unhelpful {censored}tard. They just happened to cook my goose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jrockbridge Posted January 10, 2011 Members Share Posted January 10, 2011 I concur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Guitzilla Posted January 10, 2011 Members Share Posted January 10, 2011 I think the problem that you are encountering is that different generations of guitarists use the word "gain" differently. Generally, those of us that started playing in the late eighties through today usually are referring to pre-amp distortion as gain and those before that time are thinking more in terms of hotter pickups, a pushed power amp section, and other ways to boost the signal before the amp as gain. What I find odd is that many guitarists think that lots of pre-amp distortion is what makes a sound heavy. Some of my heaviest tones have been a fairly clean Tele layered with a slightly overdriven Les Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cratz2 Posted January 10, 2011 Members Share Posted January 10, 2011 Being born in 1973, I grew up listening to all of that. Maiden's Live After Death is probably in the top 5 albums I listened to from 85 - 90. I would call all of that medium gain. Maybe the upper end of medium gain. When I think 'high gain', I think JCM2000s, Dual Rectifiers, Soldanos, Fireballs, Uberschalls... of course, you can take any of those, but most folks don't buy those to play in the bottom quarter of their gain range. On the other hand, my mom thought Link Wray was high gain and my 14 year old daughter would probably laugh at a lot of the numetal guys like Nickleback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scuzzo Posted January 10, 2011 Members Share Posted January 10, 2011 its a matter of interpretation.. one persons high gain is one another medium.. there is not universal absolute.. its a silly question.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cratz2 Posted January 10, 2011 Members Share Posted January 10, 2011 Out of curiosity, are you just trying to figure out if your definition is close to the norm or are you writing an article for Hoyle or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members paul6string Posted January 10, 2011 Author Members Share Posted January 10, 2011 Out of curiosity, are you just trying to figure out if your definition is close to the norm or are you writing an article for Hoyle or something? I'm just looking to see where everyone sat in their beliefs. I used early Van Halen as an example to see if people felt it was medium gain or high gain. I was basically asking because todays newer amps have so much gain, that they can make 80's hard rock sound clean in comparison. In my very own personal opinion, I would call early Metallica true high gain. Not that there isn't higher gain out there, but it begins there for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wyatt Posted January 10, 2011 Members Share Posted January 10, 2011 Early VH...easy...medium gain. His amp couldn't even do high gain, it was a Plexi. If you really sit and and listen to it, there is a lot less distortion going on there that one might think. People associate gain with distortion...it's more a matter of saturation. By comparison...Carlos Santana...that smooth, saturated sound...high gain. That cascading gain stage Mesa Boogie tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members paul6string Posted January 11, 2011 Author Members Share Posted January 11, 2011 Early VH...easy...medium gain. His amp couldn't even do high gain, it was a Plexi. If you really sit and and listen to it, there is a lot less distortion going on there that one might think.People associate gain with distortion...it's more a matter of saturation. By comparison...Carlos Santana...that smooth, saturated sound...high gain. That cascading gain stage Mesa Boogie tone. I think his use of the "Variac" made his Plexi sound much hotter than it would have otherwise. To me, distortion, overdrive, preamp gain, post gain etc. are all different means of achieving a "similar"(not identical) outcome. More sustain, compression etc. Textbook stompbox distortion tends to sound more abrasive than a comparable overdrive pedal, but they both squash the signal and add compression and sustain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wyatt Posted January 11, 2011 Members Share Posted January 11, 2011 I think his use of the "Variac" made his Plexi sound much hotter than it would have otherwise. To me, distortion, overdrive, preamp gain, post gain etc. are all different means of achieving a "similar"(not identical) outcome. More sustain, compression etc. Textbook stompbox distortion tends to sound more abrasive than a comparable overdrive pedal, but they both squash the signal and add compression and sustain. Not how a variac works. It can't add gain (a measurement of amplification). At best, it lowered his amp's headroom, both a the the preamp and poweramp. He got a lot more distortion from that MXR Distortion+ pedal than his amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members paul6string Posted January 11, 2011 Author Members Share Posted January 11, 2011 Not how a variac works. It can't add gain (a measurement of amplification). At best, it lowered his amp's headroom, both a the the preamp and poweramp. He got a lot more distortion from that MXR Distortion+ pedal than his amp. I realize that a variac isn't a distortion pedal or preamp. Lowering the headroom does enable you to stand in the same room while fully cranking an amp though. I'm not arguing your facts, just giving my opinion. On that note, I'm tired, and I'm calling it a day here on EG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wyatt Posted January 11, 2011 Members Share Posted January 11, 2011 I realize that a variac isn't a distortion pedal or preamp. Lowering the headroom does enable you to stand in the same room while fully cranking an amp though. I'm not arguing your facts, just giving my opinion. On that note, I'm tired, and I'm calling it a day here on EG. I'm saying...if you took a Plexi and turned everything up to 10, it's still not high gain...the amp doesn't have enough preamp gain between too few gain stages, it's considered a low gain preamp in amp design circles. The JCM800 is Marshall first amp that can be considered high gain, their first cascading gain stage amp...the JCM 800 actually the jumping off point for the SLO 100. 90% of all high gain designs are either Mesa/Dumble inspired (the tow are very similar) or JCM800 inspired. As contrary as it may seem, Lowell George of Little Feat, or even Bonnie Raitt played with more gain than early VH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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