Members csm Posted January 22, 2011 Members Share Posted January 22, 2011 After almost five years of troublefree zero-anxiety whammage, the hardware on my Custom Shop Jeff Beck Strat -- my main working guitar -- has started misbehaving, and yep, it's the G string that's persistently out of line. It comes back sharp from a wiggle -- but the standard 'quick upward yank' on the string then sends it flat. Furthermore, loosening the thumbwheel of the tuner causes the pitch of the string to drift downwards -- which doesn't happen with any of the other five strings. This meant that for last night's gig, the JB Strat had to stay home ... and I had to call on the Old Bastard -- my precious 1963 Strat, which hasn't had a public outing in over fifteen years. In fact, it's now been renamed The Old Soldier, because this ancient cranky instrument, now almost half a century old -- hell, we had audience members whose PARENTS weren't even born when the Fender plant signed off on this one -- came through like a champ, sounding fantastic and STAYING IN EM-EFFIN TUNE. Anybody here familiar with the quirks of the Jeff Beck hardware willing to help out with some thoughtage? Unlike Jeff himself, I can't simply throw it at a roadie and be handed the nearest one of half a dozen ready-to-go identical backups ... *Jean-Luc Picard voice* Gentlemen! Suggestions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tiltsta Posted January 22, 2011 Members Share Posted January 22, 2011 I have a similar setup on my strat plus, but I have never really had problems like this. I guess (and I am guessing here) I would check the little ball bearings in the LSR nut and try to see if they are stuck, junked in place, missing, or damaged so they no longer spin. Maybe a little cleaning and lube would help. Not much more can go wrong at the nut as far as I can imagine. As for the tuners, I'm not really sure what this means. I think they have a little metal pin inside that actually touches the string, and this part might be worn or damaged. Might be worth looking for a replacement whole tuner or some tuner parts to try a rebuild. Also, might be worth checking the string saddle on the trem end. The G string has a lot of tension (there is a joke in there somewhere) on it and it can leave serious notches in the metal of the saddle. This can make some odd tuning problems as the string may slip in and out of a rough groove on the saddle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members webwarmiller Posted January 22, 2011 Members Share Posted January 22, 2011 First off, have you tried a new set of strings? Sometimes something as simple as this fixes the problem. If you've already done that, then swap the tuner with D string's (I think those two are the same height in the staggered set) and see if the problem persists. If so then you know it's not the tuners fault and you can concentrate on the nut and saddles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sale83 Posted January 22, 2011 Members Share Posted January 22, 2011 That hole on tremolo,saddle,LSR nut and tuner...lubricate them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members csm Posted January 23, 2011 Author Members Share Posted January 23, 2011 Thank you, gents ... will do the lubey thing as soon as I can dig the WD40 out from wherever it's currently hiding. Incidentally (1) ... took the pin out of the tuner and reversed it before reassembling ... no change. Incidentally (2) ... didn't change the entire string set, but did indeed replace the G which was causing the trouble ... ditto. Just to emphasise: this is a VERY RECENT development ... had the guitar since spring 2006, and it was still working perfectly as recently as New Years Eve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaleH Posted January 23, 2011 Members Share Posted January 23, 2011 New set of tuners and a hipshot tremsetter. It will go back in tune wether it likes it or not. Isn't that the tuner you had the problem with before and Mark fixed it. Thoee Fender loking tuners don't cost that much. Maybe there just getting worn out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members csm Posted January 23, 2011 Author Members Share Posted January 23, 2011 ^^^^ The tuner which caused the prob before was on the A string ... what it was doing was chopping the string off as soon as it was tightened. The little pin inside had worn down to the point where it was no longer stopping the tightening of the thumbwheel at optimum point, so it kept going until it actually cut the string. Managed to get a replacement pin ... end of prob. Point is: these luxury hi-tech tuners shouldn't need replacing after a mere five years. Hell,the conventional slotted-and-drilled string-post tuners on my OTHER Strat have been there since 1963 ... and they still work ... as do the same-classic-Fender-design tuners on my 1997 Tele. Incidentally ... I had a very similar hardware set-up on an early-model Strat Plus, sold (a) to help finance the JB and (b) because I couldn't get on with its skinny 'rock' neck profile. That had Schallers rather than Sperzels, and I had the shop replace the Wilkinson nut with an LSR because the Wilk couldn't handle an 052 low E string ... plus it had a Tremsetter on board. Have to say that the Tremsetter didn't seem to make much difference ... I actually had MORE tuning problems with the Plus than with the Custom Shop JB ... which behaved perfectly until a coupla weeks back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaleH Posted January 23, 2011 Members Share Posted January 23, 2011 Maybe you could order a set of 6 new pins. When I tighten my Fender locking tuners it does not feel like the pins are hard tempered steel. There seems to be some give. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Doctor49 Posted January 23, 2011 Members Share Posted January 23, 2011 ^^Point is: these luxury hi-tech tuners shouldn't need replacing after a mere five years. Hell,the conventional slotted-and-drilled string-post tuners on my OTHER Strat have been there since 1963 ... and they still work ... as do the same-classic-Fender-design tuners on my 1997 Tele.. to me the words "luxury hi-tech" immediately spell short life and high maintenance. I know that they shouldn't but in my experience some things are are just too clever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members csm Posted January 24, 2011 Author Members Share Posted January 24, 2011 ^^^^ SO don't want to have to take this to a tech ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Doctor49 Posted January 24, 2011 Members Share Posted January 24, 2011 ^^^^SO don't want to have to take this to a tech ... I hear you! If you don't wammy yer strings slack, can you get away with the "tie back under the string method"?I know it won't hold unless there's tension - like me Bigsby shimmers - but do you really dive bomb?? At our age??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members csm Posted January 24, 2011 Author Members Share Posted January 24, 2011 do you really dive bomb??At our age??? 'Fraid so -- but only in a strictly blues-approved manner (a la Ike Turner, Buddy Guy, Jimi etc) and always in the BEST POSSIBLE TASTE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Doctor49 Posted January 24, 2011 Members Share Posted January 24, 2011 'Fraid so -- but only in a strictly blues-approved manner (a la Ike Turner, Buddy Guy, Jimi etc) and always in the BEST POSSIBLE TASTE. I miss Kenny Everett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ratae Corieltauvorum Posted January 25, 2011 Moderators Share Posted January 25, 2011 Chas, do you have any plans to pass this way in the near future? I suspect that the roller/bearing supports are at fault, but without actually holding the guitar it's a difficult one, have you also checked the saddle height adjustment screws to see if there's any stripped threads in there. You seemed to have eliminated the tuner, I've heard the odd take about the bearings popping on LSRs and the only other thing that could cause a flat is either a string unwinding at the ball end, but you changed the strings so its either the saddle or the nut. I have a spare LSR round about that I never fitted, you're welcome to it....If I can find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted January 25, 2011 Members Share Posted January 25, 2011 Sounds like you need new springs. Like strings they stress out and stop stretching the way they should. I dont think I would be the nut at this point butyou can take a littel bit of oil on the roller nut and the string tree to see if it goes away. Also check your truss. All else being equal, I suspect the springs which are good for a few years max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ratae Corieltauvorum Posted January 25, 2011 Moderators Share Posted January 25, 2011 Sounds like you need new springs. Like strings they stress out and stop stretching the way they should. I dont think I would be the nut at this point butyou can take a littel bit of oil on the roller nut and the string tree to see if it goes away. Also check your truss. All else being equal, I suspect the springs which are good for a few years max. If it was more than one string maybe, but just one string points elsewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members csm Posted January 25, 2011 Author Members Share Posted January 25, 2011 ^^^^ Cheers, Sean ... I'm not sure that we've eliminated the tuner -- after all, the string flattens when the thumbwheel's loosened -- which doesn't happen with any of the other strings/tuners. WRGKMC -- this particular Strat model doesn't HAVE string trees -- the staggered-post Sperzel tuners are supposed to do away with the need for them. The trem springs are still strong -- they're only five years old. I've had the same springs on my '63 Strat for over 30 years, and they still work -- the only diff is that it only takes three new ones on the JB to give me the same tension as I get from four of the old ones. All of the LSR's ball-bearings would seem to be still in place. All other suggestions will be taken under advisement the next time I get together with Marc and he has his toolkit. And Sean -- I'm LONG overdue for another trip Up West! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ratae Corieltauvorum Posted January 25, 2011 Moderators Share Posted January 25, 2011 ^^^^Cheers, Sean ... I'm not sure that we've eliminated the tuner -- Have you tried lock wrapping it then with about 3 turns? Also have you tried swapping the high E tuner to the G position? That will pinpoint the tuner if it's at fault. They are very easy to swap round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members csm Posted January 25, 2011 Author Members Share Posted January 25, 2011 ^^^ Hmmm. Hadn't thought of that ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members C-4 Posted January 25, 2011 Members Share Posted January 25, 2011 After almost five years of troublefree zero-anxiety whammage, the hardware on my Custom Shop Jeff Beck Strat -- my main working guitar -- has started misbehaving, and yep, it's the G string that's persistently out of line. It comes back sharp from a wiggle -- but the standard 'quick upward yank' on the string then sends it flat.Furthermore, loosening the thumbwheel of the tuner causes the pitch of the string to drift downwards -- which doesn't happen with any of the other five strings.This meant that for last night's gig, the JB Strat had to stay home ... and I had to call on the Old Bastard -- my precious 1963 Strat, which hasn't had a public outing in over fifteen years. In fact, it's now been renamed The Old Soldier, because this ancient cranky instrument, now almost half a century old -- hell, we had audience members whose PARENTS weren't even born when the Fender plant signed off on this one -- came through like a champ, sounding fantastic and STAYING IN EM-EFFIN TUNE.Anybody here familiar with the quirks of the Jeff Beck hardware willing to help out with some thoughtage? Unlike Jeff himself, I can't simply throw it at a roadie and be handed the nearest one of half a dozen ready-to-go identical backups ...*Jean-Luc Picard voice*Gentlemen! Suggestions! I had about 7-8 Jeff Beck Strats, my favorite Fender Strat.With the LSR roller nut, try some lube in there of some type. Dust or other inhibitants might be causing the rollers to seize up.As for the guitar going flat or sharp, I would never loosen the Sperzel locking dial on the back of the tuner, unless I was re-stringing the guitar. Also, the knife edge trem may be dulling where it floats against the studs, even if you have the trem decked to the body.While I love those guitars, no guitar should be breaking down after only 5 years of use, but for possible fret wear. I would seriously look into a Vigier. Why? Ball bearing trem, no knife edges to dull out. Any pickup configuration you decide on. Zero fret, which while it may wear, can be replaced by you in under 5 minutes with ease. These guitars are much better built then the Fenders and are made to hold up. I ditched all of the Fenders, Suhrs, andersons, et.al. for a Vigier. Just an amazingly superbly built and playing guitar. And, you live where they are fairly plentiful! Damn, I wish I lived where there was even one or two to try out, before ordering mine. Where I live, people cannot pronounce the name, even incorrectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members csm Posted January 25, 2011 Author Members Share Posted January 25, 2011 I would seriously look into a Vigier. Why? Ball bearing trem, no knife edges to dull out. Any pickup configuration you decide on. Zero fret, which while it may wear, can be replaced by you in under 5 minutes with ease. These guitars are much better built then the Fenders and are made to hold up. I ditched all of the Fenders, Suhrs, andersons, et.al. for a Vigier. Just an amazingly superbly built and playing guitar. I'm not looking for a new guitar. I love this particular instrument -- it's been my main working guitar ever since i first got it -- and all I want it to do is to return to delivering the kind of performance I've always had from it in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members C-4 Posted January 25, 2011 Members Share Posted January 25, 2011 I truly hope you can find the problem and get it corrected.One possible thought. Check the LSR nut to see if a bearing is either frozen up or stuck on your "G" string.I cannot think of anything else that may be giving you the problem.Good luck.Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members csm Posted January 25, 2011 Author Members Share Posted January 25, 2011 ^^^ Cheers, mate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ratae Corieltauvorum Posted January 26, 2011 Moderators Share Posted January 26, 2011 ^^^Cheers, mate! Any joy swapping the tuners Chas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members csm Posted January 26, 2011 Author Members Share Posted January 26, 2011 ^^^^ Haven't had a chance to try. I'll wait until the next time Marc n I get together, cuz that level of task requires adult supervision ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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