Members Lizards??? Posted February 18, 2011 Members Share Posted February 18, 2011 Anyone know how well this would work? I find that my digitech RP-350 sounds better running through a PA than through a guitar amp, so it seems like running it straight into a powered monitor might have a good result. I'll give it a try as soon as I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pope on a Rope Posted February 18, 2011 Members Share Posted February 18, 2011 It should work great. Amp modelers work best through a PA or powered monitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members axis player Posted February 18, 2011 Members Share Posted February 18, 2011 works a treat, especially the stereo fx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mister natural Posted February 18, 2011 Members Share Posted February 18, 2011 love my Roland Cube 30cm's for this very purpose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sleewell Posted February 18, 2011 Members Share Posted February 18, 2011 in my experience it sounds great solo, but in live band situations it really sucks. i was excited when i first tried it with my rp1000 at home with a pretty good jbl eon powered speaker and then when i tried it at band practice it just didnt do it for me anymore. something gets lost, im back to using my amp and cab with the rp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GAS Man Posted February 18, 2011 Members Share Posted February 18, 2011 I've been trying it a bit at home lately and I've found it to be a kick in the pants. I've so far bought 5 of the Tech 21 SansAmp Character Series pedals (Blonde, British, Orange, Oxford & Leeds) and I'm running them into a cheapo Kustom KPC15P 15" Powered PA Speaker http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Kustom-KPC15P-15-Powered-PA-Speaker?sku=485595 with a reverb pedal on the end, and it's fun and sounds quite good. It now has me wondering how much better it might sound if I'd bought higher on the Powered PA evolution chain, like maybe "Electro-Voice"? (But that Kustom is pretty impressive for the money) PAs are a totally new thing to me since I've always been a home player using mostly combo amps, but I'm now thinking that just having a separate power amp and speaker enclosure (combined or separate) might be a better way to go, then just swap around various pre-amps for different tones. I'm hearing really good things about the "Eleven Rack". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fu2jobu Posted February 18, 2011 Members Share Posted February 18, 2011 It should work better than a guitar amp. Guitar Amps color the signal whereas a PA speaker should reproduce the signal. If you were using a Guitar Amp when you developed/saved your settings then they will need to be retweaked for the PA speakers. Running modelling effects through most amps doesn't make much sense to me. If you wanted the sound of a Fender Silver Face Twin you wouldn't plug into a silver face twin in an isolation booth, mic up the twin then run that to a Marshall JCM-800 for the output would you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members imbuedblue Posted February 18, 2011 Members Share Posted February 18, 2011 I have a friend that quit gigging with amps in favor of running a modeler through a powered PA speaker tilted on its side like a monitor. It sounds great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members artiem Posted February 18, 2011 Members Share Posted February 18, 2011 It should work better than a guitar amp. Guitar Amps color the signal whereas a PA speaker should reproduce the signal. If you were using a Guitar Amp when you developed/saved your settings then they will need to be retweaked for the PA speakers. Running modelling effects through most amps doesn't make much sense to me. If you wanted the sound of a Fender Silver Face Twin you wouldn't plug into a silver face twin in an isolation booth, mic up the twin then run that to a Marshall JCM-800 for the output would you?^^^^ Well said. If you primarily play live direct into a PA, amp modelers are extremely handy--what you hear at home through your monitors is relatively close to what you will hear in the venue (the venue colors the sound, too). I use a pair of Edirol powered monitors at home, plugged direct into my POD HD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sleewell Posted February 18, 2011 Members Share Posted February 18, 2011 someone said it better in a different thread and i am not sure exactly what the logisitics are but it has to do with the horns in the pa speakers being different than the speakers in a guitar cab. it sounds fine by yourself but in a live band situation something just gets lost. i (REALLY) wanted to like it, i thought about how much easier it would be to show up for a gig with one or two guitars and my rp and just plug in and go but it just didnt work compared with what i was used to with a tube amp and 4x12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wartoxin Posted February 18, 2011 Members Share Posted February 18, 2011 well, lets say you took a digitech RP and did some direct recording, or regular speakers the treble is still way too high. If you can but something in to lower the treble it should work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sleewell Posted February 18, 2011 Members Share Posted February 18, 2011 recording and live band situations are two very different things. rp and line 6 mods are great for recording if you know what you are doing but using them for gigs is a totally different ballgame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Radar-Love Posted February 18, 2011 Members Share Posted February 18, 2011 If you're looking for a traditional guitar speaker cabinet arrangement, the Tech21 Power Engine works great. Power Engines have been around for years, so, this is a well-tested product. http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/powerengine/powerengine60.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members crashclc Posted February 18, 2011 Members Share Posted February 18, 2011 Most definitely works great And completely agree with Radar-love above (Not a Digitech product but) This... Plus this... = Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bacardi/Cola Posted February 18, 2011 Members Share Posted February 18, 2011 I love playing my RP1000 thru either Kustom PA or Roland CM30. Both work great for my crappy playing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fu2jobu Posted February 18, 2011 Members Share Posted February 18, 2011 it sounds fine by yourself but in a live band situation something just gets lost. i (REALLY) wanted to like it, i thought about how much easier it would be to show up for a gig with one or two guitars and my rp and just plug in and go but it just didnt work compared with what i was used to with a tube amp and 4x12. Your results differ vastly from mine. What size venues are you playing that you need a 4x12 cab? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sleewell Posted February 18, 2011 Members Share Posted February 18, 2011 Your results differ vastly from mine. What size venues are you playing that you need a 4x12 cab? need vs want - 2 different things my friend. haha. i will be the first to say that i am {censored}ty guitar player and our band doesnt play very big venues (yet). my amp is actually almost more of a bear to carry then the cab. but i am still pretty young, 28, and in decent shape so i dont mind lugging the 4x12 especially for the sounds i am getting with it. imo 4x12's just have that hit you in the chest ooooomph of 4 speakers and they provide that wall of sound type of fullness that i wasnt able to get with just one powered speaker. like i said it sounded great in solo practice but in a band situation it just sounded like something was missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ashasha Posted February 19, 2011 Members Share Posted February 19, 2011 This exact question seems to be one of the biggest things on forums like TGP and Fractal Audio. There seems to be a lot of different opinions and experiences so basically it's about as subjective as it gets. Personally I want to be able to pull this off and the Kustom powered monitors that GAS man mentioned seem to be a fantastic solution on paper and probably in line with what I'm looking for. I was thinking about going with two of the 12" ones so that I could run stereo; not really sure if that's a great idea though. There seems to be a lot of question about the 'in the amp' feel and it cutting. To me it comes down to the idea that if you like to feel your pants flap that you are going to be disappointed. Now this to me makes little sense because I would think that you could get there by adding more volume and messing with EQ, but once again I haven't gotten to that point yet with my AxeFX and there are A LOT of people that come to the same conclusion. As far as using FRFR (full range flat response) speakers vs a guitar amp and cab it makes a lot of sense to me. If you've got an amp and cab simulated sending it into another amp and cab is going to color the hell out of it. I imagine you could dial in something usable, but if you are looking for authentic amp and cab tones going FRFR is probably the only way to do it correctly. Something to keep in mind is that a modeler that does cabs also does mics so you are usually replicating a recorded sound rather than a live rig. So I'm thinking that a lot of people that dial in their patches to sound just like it does on the record in the mix are going to have a different feel than just an amp would. And one other thing that I've read is that in some cases frequencies that aren't reproduced by a regular guitar amp and speaker can come through a FRFR system so a lot of guys use EQ to dial out stuff around 63Hz and below and then cut everything above 8kHz. Supposedly it tightens things up and makes it more in your face and cut better....you know all those terms that apply to what's lacking. It really all comes down to the mix that the audience hears if you ask me. I mean there are tons of players that have these huge stacks and crank the bejeezus out of it and drown everyone out. They have a huge grin on their face, but how does it sound to the audience? I just think that with some research and some time spent dialing in a good level that you absolutely should be able to come up with something that sounds great. Perhaps _pete_ or MaltoMario can chime in because I know that both of them have used modelers and amp sims live with great success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members smorgdonkey Posted February 19, 2011 Members Share Posted February 19, 2011 I think there is something that you set up in the output section for 'PA' or 'amplifier' etc. I would tend to think that a powered monitor would be most like a PA so I'd try that setting. I used to use the old Rockman rackmount through powered monitors and it sounded excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members _pete_ Posted February 19, 2011 Members Share Posted February 19, 2011 A good modeler works fantastically through a powered monitor.My mini rig right now consists of an old Digitech GNX3000 and a Kustom powered 12" speaker. I get great sounds of it. I run the XLR outs of the GNX to the PA and get an excellent and very consistent tone. My main rig is a Digitech GSP1101 (I cannot speak highly enough of this unit) through an Art SLA-1 power amp and into a 4x12. I don't use the cab sims with this one. It can get stupid loud and sound as good or better than a "normal" amp. I have no issues live either. I also run it direct to the PA via a direct box with a built in cab sim. I always have a great FOH sound that sits in the mix perfectly. If you run a modeler through a full range speaker, use cab sims and try as many different ones as you can. If you run a modeler through a guitar amp or a guitar cabinet, do not use the cab sims. It's that simple. The cabinet sims are what makes all the difference. I keep reading comment about how modelers don't sound real or disappear in a mix. If that's happening to you, you're not doing it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fu2jobu Posted February 20, 2011 Members Share Posted February 20, 2011 need vs want - 2 different things my friend. haha. i will be the first to say that i am {censored}ty guitar player and our band doesnt play very big venues (yet). my amp is actually almost more of a bear to carry then the cab. but i am still pretty young, 28, and in decent shape so i dont mind lugging the 4x12 especially for the sounds i am getting with it. imo 4x12's just have that hit you in the chest ooooomph of 4 speakers and they provide that wall of sound type of fullness that i wasnt able to get with just one powered speaker. like i said it sounded great in solo practice but in a band situation it just sounded like something was missing. That's what I figured. Here's something you could try... (just having some fun at your expense) Get 2 decent pairs of isolation headphones. The first set you can wear normally and crank those badboys to ear bleeding levels without comprising the stage volume. The second set you will need to remove the individual ear pieces from the head band. Then build a harness (much like a baseball catchers chest piece) and strap the ear pieces to your chest- one earpiece centered over each nipple. Duct tape will work if you dont want to go through the hassle of building a harness. (If you really want to be manly use one of the ear pieces strapped to the center of your chest and the second strapped over your junk like a cod piece that would make Nigel Tufnel proud). Now it's a win for everyone? Your band can have a stage volume where they can hear every note from every instrument. The audience doesn't get blasted with earspliting volume. The soundman can actually include the guitar in the mix allowing them to boost or reduce the level of the guitar resulting in a better sounding performance. You get your earsplitting level and you get the "hit you in the chest oomph" you want. It's a win/win/win/win situation? OK, all joking aside. If you want earth shaking, ear splitting loud that's your call. You could get the same thing with PA Speakers but why bother? I think you are doing your band, the audience and the soundman an injustice but it ain't my band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Funkwire Posted February 20, 2011 Members Share Posted February 20, 2011 I've played gigs with my Digitech GNX2 plugged into an E-H 22 Caliber going into a monitor. It worked fine, sounded just like an amp. A musician friend was at one of the gigs where I used this set up. After the first set, he asked me, "Where the f*** is your amp?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fiveoclockhero Posted February 20, 2011 Members Share Posted February 20, 2011 I like this thread, it gives me ideas. GAS Man and I were having a similar chat OVER HERE. Very informative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lizards??? Posted February 22, 2011 Author Members Share Posted February 22, 2011 Well, I had the opportunity to plug directly into a couple JBL Eons, and they sounded pretty good! The cleans had a little too much of a treble bite, but that might be EQable. All my distortion sounds were great. I would really recommend trying this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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