Members HolySchmidt24 Posted February 28, 2011 Members Share Posted February 28, 2011 I have an Eric Clapton Custom Shop strat, and currently I'm running it through a Blues Junior with a Swamp Thang speaker. With that setup, I would expect too much low end and mid-range, if anything, but that is not my problem. For whatever reason, the tone has been really brittle and has too harsh of a high-end. I have to completely dial down the treble on the amp, pump the bass up to 10 or 11, and keep the mid's around 5, to get a tolerable sound. But once I hit any OD or pedals, it changes everything again. I just can't find a good sound. Even though the highs are harsh and biting, I can't seem to get any punch from the lower strings I know the description is vague, but any suggestions on what could give me a little smoother, and sweeter, sound? I can't imagine it's the speaker, and I wouldn't think that the Clapton strat is known for sounding brittle at all... Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaleH Posted February 28, 2011 Members Share Posted February 28, 2011 EQ pedal after your OD pedal could work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hecticone Posted February 28, 2011 Members Share Posted February 28, 2011 Sounds like the amp not the guitar the Claptons are a very warm strat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pope on a Rope Posted February 28, 2011 Members Share Posted February 28, 2011 What are your settings on the overdrive? Maybe you have too much gain and/or volume set on the pedal. Do you play with the guitar's volume on ten all the time? Use the volume on the guitar to cut the harsh and the brittle. Harsh and brittle is usually a symptom of too much volume and/or gain somewhere before the amp. In my experience, smooth and sweet ain't going to happen with a Strat's volume being on ten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BoneNut Posted February 28, 2011 Members Share Posted February 28, 2011 Have you tried adjusting the pickup height? ...or playing it through a real amp?Just kidding... try finding the sweet spot for the pup height. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Invader.CC Posted February 28, 2011 Members Share Posted February 28, 2011 ^^^Jinxed^^^ Have you tried adjusting your pickups..Such as raising the bass side and lowering the treble side?..I recently bought a Deluxe player strat that sounded like a cat having birth it had so much treble in it until i adjusted out the pick ups height.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrbrown49 Posted February 28, 2011 Members Share Posted February 28, 2011 When was the last time you changed your power tubes in that amp. My el84 amp starts sounding really unbalanced right before the tubes go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members metallica_00 Posted March 1, 2011 Members Share Posted March 1, 2011 I would look to get a better amp. To my ears, the Blues Jr. has a "boxy" sound to it and can get harsh/ragged when overdriven. I personally surmise that a lot of it has to do with the small cab size. Maybe try a Tweed Deluxe or something along those lines? Nice and warm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members poolshark Posted March 1, 2011 Members Share Posted March 1, 2011 Do other Strats sound alright through the amp? If so, I'd start by adjusting your pickups. Both pieces of equipment are perfectly serviceable (aside from one being a Strat), so tweak until you're happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HolySchmidt24 Posted March 2, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 2, 2011 Thanks for all your help! To answer most of the questions: When it's overdriven, I can compensate with the tone on the pedals and guitar, so it's mostly when it's clean that it's harsh and brittle. I tried adjusting the pickup heights, but that didn't really help. It's mostly a new problem, and I've noticed it after buying the speaker. The speaker is about a month and a half old. Could that be the problem? How long does the speaker really need for it to break in, and is this what it is like before that? The tubes are also relatively new (September), so I didn't think it would be them, although tubes are unpredictable as it is. I played my telecaster through it as well, and it also doesn't sound as good as it used to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted March 2, 2011 Members Share Posted March 2, 2011 Leave the guitar alone. Its doing what its supposed to do. Take the guitar to a music stor and try out different amps and find a good match. Thats the way its supposed to be done. Dont start modifying something that is functioning correctly to work with a low end amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BoneNut Posted March 2, 2011 Members Share Posted March 2, 2011 Leave the guitar alone. Its doing what its supposed to do. Take the guitar to a music stor and try out different amps and find a good match. Thats the way its supposed to be done. Dont start modifying something that is functioning correctly to work with a low end amp. OP. if you aren't happy with that EC Strat, I have a mint 52 RI Telecaster HR I'll be happy to trade you for it.Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kayd_mon Posted March 2, 2011 Members Share Posted March 2, 2011 When was the last time you changed your power tubes in that amp. My el84 amp starts sounding really unbalanced right before the tubes go. I was going to ask this as well. Could be worth a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kayd_mon Posted March 2, 2011 Members Share Posted March 2, 2011 Thanks for all your help!To answer most of the questions:When it's overdriven, I can compensate with the tone on the pedals and guitar, so it's mostly when it's clean that it's harsh and brittle. I tried adjusting the pickup heights, but that didn't really help. It's mostly a new problem, and I've noticed it after buying the speaker. The speaker is about a month and a half old. Could that be the problem? How long does the speaker really need for it to break in, and is this what it is like before that? The tubes are also relatively new (September), so I didn't think it would be them, although tubes are unpredictable as it is.I played my telecaster through it as well, and it also doesn't sound as good as it used to... The speaker should be broken in well enough after a couple hours... whenever I've bought a new amp or speaker, I've hooked up a looper pedal, played a riff in the morning, left it on, went to work, came back, and everything's good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members poolshark Posted March 2, 2011 Members Share Posted March 2, 2011 Thanks for all your help!To answer most of the questions:When it's overdriven, I can compensate with the tone on the pedals and guitar, so it's mostly when it's clean that it's harsh and brittle. I tried adjusting the pickup heights, but that didn't really help. It's mostly a new problem, and I've noticed it after buying the speaker. The speaker is about a month and a half old. Could that be the problem? How long does the speaker really need for it to break in, and is this what it is like before that? The tubes are also relatively new (September), so I didn't think it would be them, although tubes are unpredictable as it is.I played my telecaster through it as well, and it also doesn't sound as good as it used to... Sounds like you need to break your speaker in. New ones are notorious for being tighter and brighter than they should be. Play it loud, and a lot. I occasionally play bass through new speakers to break them in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrbrown49 Posted March 2, 2011 Members Share Posted March 2, 2011 I was going to ask this as well. Could be worth a try. Yeah, they aren't that durable of a tube IME. I replace the power tubes in my EL84 amp, similar and size and power to the BJ, at least twice as often as my other amps. For whatever reason they just burn up faster. In small amps like that they generally run hot, and are under constant vibration. Pair that with the tubes geometry and construction and they break down quicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mel Cooley Posted March 2, 2011 Members Share Posted March 2, 2011 When I think of "too much bass" a Strat never even enters into my thought processes. Between that and your small boxy amp I'm not surprised. I'd change amps first though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HolySchmidt24 Posted March 2, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 2, 2011 BoneNut: I appreciate the offer, though I already have the Thinline Tele and probably will stick with what I've got. I know that the Clapton strat fits my style for the lead work I do. Thanks though! Re: tubes- I'm right about the fact even though they're new, they could just be from a bad batch, correct? I would imagine the amp is broken in, but maybe because it's a 150W rated speaker, and a 15W amp it takes longer? I don't know... I know the amp is inherently boxy and lower quality, but if you heard how it sounds, it's not much better than my 8th grade Marshall solid state at this point... Could the polarity of the speaker be an issue? It's possible I accidentally mixed up the + and - wires. I thought it only mattered on amps with multiple speakers. Also, the brittle-ness is really only evident when I'm DIRECTLY facing the amp. So I can get around it by micing the amp at an angle, but it's still frustrating when playing without the amp being mic'd up. Thanks again. I know plenty about guitars and pickups, but am a little lost when it comes to amps... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jarick Posted March 2, 2011 Members Share Posted March 2, 2011 I'm also going to go with the amp on this one. Had the same problems with pretty much all the Fender Blues/Hot Rod series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrbrown49 Posted March 2, 2011 Members Share Posted March 2, 2011 Also, the brittle-ness is really only evident when I'm DIRECTLY facing the amp. So I can get around it by micing the amp at an angle, but it's still frustrating when playing without the amp being mic'd up. Most guitar speakers have a pronounced beaming effect. That's one reason you usually have to dial in the amp a little differently when you are micing it, vs listening in the room. You may get part of the way there by adjusting the position in the room, but it sounds like you may have more going on than just that. Your speaker may just need to break in and loosen up a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HolySchmidt24 Posted March 2, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 2, 2011 Why such a large speaker? A little speaker breakup tends smooth out and compress the tone a bit. You'll never get that with that pairing. Read it was a good amp for Blues Juniors around the web. Knowing what I know now, I probably should have gone with a different speaker. I know Billm said it was one of his favorite, and likes the clean sound that it has. I figured that with my pedals, I could go with a clean speaker and still drive it with OD pedals, but it doesn't seem to mesh that well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted March 2, 2011 Members Share Posted March 2, 2011 Sounds like you need to break your speaker in. New ones are notorious for being tighter and brighter than they should be. Play it loud, and a lot. I occasionally play bass through new speakers to break them in. Carefull. This is a major myth that constantly gets spread around on the internet is probibly 2% fact vs 98% fiction at this point. Theres no such thing as breaking in speakers. You can definately break speakers by feeding them too much power and overheating the voice coils but they arent shoes that stretch and fit better in a short time, no sir. Maybe 60 years ago when the manufacturing Quality was garbage, glues had no polymers, silicones to make them flexable and the paper surround and spider would become more flexable. With modern manufacturing, materials and glues, the frequency responce and SPL of speakers is extremely constant. Any breaking in would more likely to occur over many decades of use moisture, sun drying out the paper etc may affect the tone a littel. If there was a breaking in it wouldnt stop at a small amount and stabolize. It would just continue on till the speaker fell appart. You can place say a new celestion and place it side by side with an older one in a blind test and you're never going to be able to tell the difference between them. The only differences there might be is if they change production materials with the new one, or the old speaker has been exposed to dampness, sun, mold etc where the paper has started to deteriorate, dry out etc. Manufactures design speakers like like they do mics to meet specific frequency responces and they dont change much so long as thay arent abused, dropped pressed beyond specifications. If anything its your ears that get used to hearing the sound and "your ears" become accustomed to that sound or you find tolerable settings, effects, different strings etc that minimise the bad tones you may hear. In most cases though its the amp design, its voicing thats desingned into the EQ circuit, not the speaker thats responcible for the bad clean tone. This is why matching a guitar to an amp is very important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members poolshark Posted March 2, 2011 Members Share Posted March 2, 2011 Carefull. This is a major myth that constantly gets spread around on the internet is probibly 2% fact vs 98% fiction at this point. Theres no such thing as breaking in speakers. You can definately break speakers by feeding them too much power and overheating the voice coils but they arent shoes that stretch and fit better in a short time, no sir. Maybe 60 years ago when the manufacturing Quality was garbage, glues had no polymers, silicones to make them flexable and the paper surround and spider would become more flexable. With modern manufacturing, materials and glues, the frequency responce and SPL of speakers is extremely constant. Any breaking in would more likely to occur over many decades of use moisture, sun drying out the paper etc may affect the tone a littel. If there was a breaking in it wouldnt stop at a small amount and stabolize. It would just continue on till the speaker fell appart. You can place say a new celestion and place it side by side with an older one in a blind test and you're never going to be able to tell the difference between them. The only differences there might be is if they change production materials with the new one, or the old speaker has been exposed to dampness, sun, mold etc where the paper has started to deteriorate, dry out etc. Manufactures design speakers like like they do mics to meet specific frequency responces and they dont change much so long as thay arent abused, dropped pressed beyond specifications. If anything its your ears that get used to hearing the sound and "your ears" become accustomed to that sound or you find tolerable settings, effects, different strings etc that minimise the bad tones you may hear. In most cases though its the amp design, its voicing thats desingned into the EQ circuit, not the speaker thats responcible for the bad clean tone. This is why matching a guitar to an amp is very important. Then we'll have to agree to disagree. I can almost always notice a difference before and after break-in, and most manufacturers have a recommended break-in procedure for that reason: http://www.eminence.com/support/faq/ http://professional.celestion.com/guitar/features/drdecibel/index.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HolySchmidt24 Posted March 2, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 2, 2011 For those who think speaker break-in makes a difference: will that affect how the speaker breaks up with gain and more volume? I'm getting a buzz after certain notes (especially when I start bending them and adding vibrato after I pick the note), mostly on the lower strings, when they're higher up the neck. It's also breaking up early then I think it should... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scott944 Posted March 2, 2011 Members Share Posted March 2, 2011 Seems like a trip to the local store, or some help from a buddy or 3 should shed some light on the subject. Put your rig together, listen, then change ONE item in the signal chain and listen again. Try your BJ (not nearly as bad an amp as some say, and yes I had one) through different cabs/speakers (watch your impedences). Try other Strats through your BJ. A culprit should surface. Also - was the new speaker installed/wired correctly? Can you reinstall the stock speaker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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