P90s - a critique

[Willyguitar]

Having used my Les Paul Junior as my number 1 guitar, (and both playing it extensively in a band context and listening to it recorded), it has gradually dawned on me that there is one aspect of the typical P90 sound (at least on the Juniors as I can tell), that I am not sure is always particularly desirable, yet somehow inescapable.

 

Listening back to a quick recording we did of a couple of numbers at our last rehearsal, I was struck by how 'grainy' or 'gritty' the sound was with just a modicum amount of overdrive. At first I wondered whether it was the quality of mike, and recording, but listening to lots of other Juniors online, this seems to be an inescapable feature of the sound... curiously I hadn't really remarked upon it before.

 

I guess I would define it like this: a tight overdrive sound, that almost sounds as though there is a small amount of 'fuzz' in it. A humbucker with a similar amount of gain sounds smoother to my ear. Now, a lot of people I guess love this aspect of the P90... but I'm beginning to wonder whether it could be a bit of a pain in the arse, in the sense that your driven sounds come to be coloured by it one way or the other.

 

Of course, when clean, they sound better than most humbuckers to my ear.

 

Is it just me, or is there this inherent fuzz to the typical P90 sound?

[craigny]

Isin't that grit part of what you want when driving a P-90? That's what sets it apart from a HB no?

[csm]

My guess ...

 

P90s are EXTREMELY powerful pickups, with higher output than either a standard Fender-style single-coil, or a 'weak' PAF-style 'bucker (though not more than a modern metal-oriented mega-high-gain supertestosterone-bucker). Sounds to me like your P90-loaded guitar is simply hitting the front end of your amp harder than, say, a Strat or Les Paul would, and you're therefore getting more 'drive' from your amp when you use it.

[Willyguitar]

 

My guess ... P90s are EXTREMELY powerful pickups, with higher output than either a standard Fender-style single-coil, or a 'weak' PAF-style 'bucker (though not more than a modern metal-oriented mega-high-gain supertestosterone-bucker). Sounds to me like your P90-loaded guitar is simply hitting the front end of your amp harder than, say, a Strat or Les Paul would, and you're therefore getting more 'drive' from your amp when you use it.

 

 

Yes - agree with that... but it also has a peculiar quality to it, to my ear.

[Elias Graves]

That's what they do. Like it or not, that's the character of a P90. That, the exagerrated mids and the noise are what keeps me playing humbuckers.

I'm glad Gibson finally made a Jr with one.

 

EG

[sleewell]

i agree with the OP, that is a characteristic of the p90 that jumps out at me too. there is a time and a place for everything, a properly dialed in p90 certainly has its place in many musical situations just as much as a good single coil or humbucker does. learning when and how to use them all in the right situation is the hard part!

[GCDEF]

They can be pretty aggressive, but I love that sound.

[BA.Barcolounger]

That's the "P90 Stank". I love putting some stank on it.

[guitarman3001]

 

That's the "P90 Stank". I love putting some stank on it.

 

 

Yep. I've only had one guitar with P90s but it's become my favorite gigging guitar. You might not think that they would work for cover gigs where we play everything from AC/DC to Skynrd, to Rick Springfield and Missing Persons but they work great for pretty much everything.

[27Frets]

Have you tried backing off the volume knob on the guitar to around the 6-8 range? What about your tone knob?

[Quarter]

 

... I was struck by how 'grainy' or 'gritty' the sound was with just a modicum amount of overdrive. ............................. Is it just me, or is there this inherent fuzz to the typical P90 sound?

 

Yep, its the nature of the beast and directly related to how P90's are constructed. A neat / smoother variation of the 90 theme is to build one more like a Jazzmaster pickup in that instead of 2 bar magnets with adjustable pole pieces, Alnico rod magnets are used for the pole pieces.

[Willyguitar]

 

Have you tried backing off the volume knob on the guitar to around the 6-8 range? What about your tone knob?

 

 

Yes - I use vol knob the whole time - in fact most of the time it is between 6-8, and the tone varies too. Yes, you can clean it up, it's just the particular quality of the overdrive you get from it.

[Sheraton]

I just jumped back into the P90 pool with a PRS SE Soapbar. I agree, there is a quality there that is unmistakeable. Sometimes good and sometimes bad. Of the P90 guitars I've had some sounded much crisper, sweeter and chime-ier clean than others but they all dirtied up pretty good.

 

Having had a few P90 guitars over the last few years and playing with this PRS for a couple weeks now I have some observations and questions.

 

1. The 2 best sounding were a Squier Tele Custom II with the Duncan Designed P90's and a $50 Affinity Strat that I put a closeout wired 2 x P90 pickguard from GFS into. I think both sets of pickups were slightly lower (vintage?) output than others. Is it this? Or is it Alder bodies that smoothed them out?

 

2. The 2 PRS SE's I've had were a little harsh sounding played clean. The pickups seem very hot and maybe this contributes to them not sounding very single coil-y clean. They sound more like noisy humbuckers. I was playing with backing off the volume knob while playing clean last night and this dramatically improved the tone and gave it more of the single coil edge with less harshness. Is backing off the volume knob the same as having lower output pickups?

 

3. For some reason P90 LP's sound smoother overdriven than P90 SG's. Why? Is it the maple cap that brightens up the sound and counteracts the mids?

 

4. I keep chasing the sound of an early 60's SG Jr I sold 30 years ago and not being completely happy with the results. Is it that I've outgrown the P90 sound? Are P90s a young man's pickup?

 

Thoughts?

[27Frets]

 

Yes - I use vol knob the whole time - in fact most of the time it is between 6-8, and the tone varies too. Yes, you can clean it up, it's just the particular quality of the overdrive you get from it.

 

 

Well then, I'd say you have a need for another guitar! A Les Paul with buckers or an SG......

[ExiledCrow]

That's the "P90 Stank". I love putting some stank on it.

 

"Stank" FTW.

 

I'm a stank fan ... well, I like the stank that some players get, yet to find out whether me+p90 = stank or stink.

[photon9]

If you have two P90s in the guitar the middle position should get rid of most of the grit.

 

Personally I love that slight bit of fuzz that you get from P90s. With a master volume amp I can usually set the pre/post so the fuzz only occurs when I start really bashing some chords. Sometimes I like it there all the time though. Depends on my mood.

[Alecto]

 

That's the "P90 Stank". I love putting some stank on it.

 

 

Yeah, the P-90 is a gorgeous pickup, both clean and filthy.

 

And as for the poster who asked if it was "a young man's pickup," I'd say these old guys get some pretty sweet tones out of a P-90.

 

[video=youtube;LsVSkqJS5YU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsVSkqJS5YU&feature=related

[Rex Machete]

I've never thought anyone would want a "smooth" bridge pickup.

[27Frets]

 

If you have two P90s in the guitar the middle position should get rid of most of the grit. Personally I love that slight bit of fuzz that you get from P90s. With a master volume amp I can usually set the pre/post so the fuzz only occurs when I start really bashing some chords. Sometimes I like it there all the time though. Depends on my mood.

 

 

+1

 

I love that too- let the pick attack dictate the grind.

[WRGKMC]

P90s are single coils but thay have a much wider magnetic field in comparison to a strat single coil so it capturers a broader string area of the strings making them sound warmer. A strat pup capturers a much narrower focused area on the strings. How they sound is dependant on the amp and effects you use. I find my semihollobody with P90s sounds better with my fender amps than my marshall which pushes more high end. Recording direct, P90's can be super clean. They will drive sirt boxes into saturation differently than an HB. The difference to me is the P90's have a more overdrive tone when driven in comparision to distortion a HB will produce. The P90 also seems retain more clarity when driven.

 

Still its only one of many tones though. I probibly use my P90 guitars less than the others. I prefer good Mini Humbuckers myself. It has the clarity and warmth of a P90 when run clean and not woofey sounding like a full sized HB. When driven you get that tighter HB sustain. I think is most P90 users were to play simular guitars with both P90s and minis, they may actually prefer the Minis. The exception might be actual vintage 90's pn and actual vintage Gibson Jazz type guitar. Those to me have the real tone happening.

 

I think my favorite single coils are the Rickenbacker Toaster pickups. They are hot wound with weaker magnets and give some incredible stne and breakup. They lean more towards the Mini HB than the P90's in tone and drive, but thay are unique as well.

[Elias Graves]

 

I just jumped back into the P90 pool with a PRS SE Soapbar. I agree, there is a quality there that is unmistakeable. Sometimes good and sometimes bad. Of the P90 guitars I've had some sounded much crisper, sweeter and chime-ier clean than others but they all dirtied up pretty good. Having had a few P90 guitars over the last few years and playing with this PRS for a couple weeks now I have some observations and questions. 1. The 2 best sounding were a Squier Tele Custom II with the Duncan Designed P90's and a $50 Affinity Strat that I put a closeout wired 2 x P90 pickguard from GFS into. I think both sets of pickups were slightly lower (vintage?) output than others. Is it this? Or is it Alder bodies that smoothed them out? 2. The 2 PRS SE's I've had were a little harsh sounding played clean. The pickups seem very hot and maybe this contributes to them not sounding very single coil-y clean. They sound more like noisy humbuckers. I was playing with backing off the volume knob while playing clean last night and this dramatically improved the tone and gave it more of the single coil edge with less harshness. Is backing off the volume knob the same as having lower output pickups? 3. For some reason P90 LP's sound smoother overdriven than P90 SG's. Why? Is it the maple cap that brightens up the sound and counteracts the mids? 4. I keep chasing the sound of an early 60's SG Jr I sold 30 years ago and not being completely happy with the results. Is it that I've outgrown the P90 sound? Are P90s a young man's pickup? Thoughts?

 

 

Lower output "vintage wind" plus modern versions often use A5 magnets rather than A2. That will give more bite, more grind and more honk but they don't clean up as nicely. You lose some of that piano like clarity with the hotter ones.

PRS SE models use a modern high output version.

 

EG

[JerEvil]

You could just buy a P90 sized humbucker

[Ratae Corieltauvorum]

Isn't this in the realms of a rather contary forumite, whose id escapes me just at the moment meant when he questioned what was wrong with a woman with a cock?

 

Ida........

[Sheraton]

I remember that. I forget who it was though.

[Bluesidae]

 

My guess ... P90s are EXTREMELY powerful pickups, with higher output than either a standard Fender-style single-coil, or a 'weak' PAF-style 'bucker (though not more than a modern metal-oriented mega-high-gain supertestosterone-bucker). Sounds to me like your P90-loaded guitar is simply hitting the front end of your amp harder than, say, a Strat or Les Paul would, and you're therefore getting more 'drive' from your amp when you use it.

 

 

Very well said. P90's have a 'bad boy' element. I thought that was why we where so fond of P90's?