Do you really know what to look for in a good guitar?

docjeffrey · April 15, 2011

Guitar makers have us right where they want us. We are buying guitars without ever having seen them in person, not to mention the fact that we have no idea how they will sound or feel.

Once they arrive, we are so enamored with having a new toy that there is no way we can objectively evaluate the tone.

Of course it sounds killer and it's the best guitar we've ever played. We're on a high more addictive than crack.

I'm going to advocate that buying in person is a totally different experience. Different parts of my brain are probably firing. I usually have more than one guitar sitting in the audition room at Wildwood, so I'm looking and listening to every detail. When I get home, I'm always thinking--hmmm. Did I pick the best one?

Tone is, by far, the hardest thing to evaluate for too many reasons to discuss here. But I have a system that works pretty good. It involves taking my Vox AC15TBX with me when I'm seriously thinking about dropping $2k or more.

How about you folks? Do you agree with me, or am I anomaly? Do you think that buying online gives instrument makers a license to ignore aspects of their craft...like really good tone? Or has it made them even more conscientious because they don't want a bunch of returned merchandise?

kayd_mon · April 15, 2011

I usually buy a guitar locally and used. That way, it's played through my rig before I make a decision. I bought a guitar once online, but it was only because it was discontinued, and there weren't a whole lot of other choices. I don't see anything wrong with buying a guitar online. Most of the time, a guitar can be adjusted the way you like it, and many guitar companies have good enough quality control that it isn't a gamble. Of course, people will say to never buy a Gibson online, and I tend to agree with that. I've played plenty of dud Gibsons off of the wall at guitar stores.

Faber · April 15, 2011

I never buy sight unseen, I like to make an evaluation before putting down the money.

As for whether I can make an honest evaluation of the gear I'm trying out - yes and no. I think I'm good at noting the build quality, the response and the sound of an instrument then and there. What I can't make more of an educated guess on when testing gear is whether I'll ultimately find it to be a keeper. For that, I have to live with the guitar for a while, and see how it measure up in the real world over time. Sometimes a guitar can be a great instrument in every regard and still not work for you, and while I'll often know from the get go (no Floyd Roses for me for instance) sometimes I need to own it for a while to know. It works both ways btw: the one that is my current #1 is a basic strat that I bought just to have a maple board one too - it's proven to be near perfect in my hands and applications, and have really grown on me over time.

docjeffrey · April 15, 2011

I never buy sight unseen, I like to make an evaluation before putting down the money.

As for whether I can make an honest evaluation of the gear I'm trying out - yes and no. I think I'm good at noting the build quality, the response and the sound of an instrument then and there. What I can't make more of an educated guess on when testing gear is whether I'll ultimately find it to be a keeper. For that, I have to live with the guitar for a while, and see how it measure up in the real world over time. Sometimes a guitar can be a great instrument in every regard and still not work for you, and while I'll often know from the get go (no Floyd Roses for me for instance) sometimes I need to own it for a while to know. It works both ways btw: the one that is my current #1 is a basic strat that I bought just to have a maple board one too - it's proven to be near perfect in my hands and applications, and have really grown on me over time.

You and I think alike. One thing I've learned is to not let my prejudices get in the way of a good guitar. EMG pickups, for example. I avoided them for years, but when I finally played them, I was amazed at how well they worked with the music our band played at the time.

docjeffrey · April 15, 2011

I usually buy a guitar locally and used. That way, it's played through my rig before I make a decision. I bought a guitar once online, but it was only because it was discontinued, and there weren't a whole lot of other choices. I don't see anything wrong with buying a guitar online. Most of the time, a guitar can be adjusted the way you like it, and many guitar companies have good enough quality control that it isn't a gamble. Of course, people will say to never buy a Gibson online, and I tend to agree with that. I've played plenty of dud Gibsons off of the wall at guitar stores.

I've bought a few things online that I can't find--Rickenbackers, SG Classics (before Guitar Center started carrying them), Gibson ES339.

Most of my guitars have come from either Guitar Center or Wildwood Guitars (I have found great used gear at GC). Most of my amps have come from Spotlight, a local shop here in Fort Collins.

The ironic thing is that the biggest lemon in my collection was picked out in person by your's truly after trying half a dozen of them. I wish I could remember why I picked THAT particular Am. Series Strat, but it's been 11 years already.

docjeffrey · April 15, 2011

Keep the discussion going--I'll check in tomorrow. Gonna play my tele before I hit the sack.

honeyiscool · April 15, 2011

I'm of the opinion that you'll never really know just by trying something out how you'll grow with it. You're making an educated guess when it comes to a lot of these guitars and in that sense, ultimately it pays to try out lots of different types of guitars, finding them as cheaply as possible, and hopefully getting rid of them for like the same price or so, in the meantime really learning about yourself.

Really good tone, I'm convinced that if you have something that plays well, you can get good tone out of it because plays well = good construction = just needs pickups.

DaleH · April 15, 2011

I think your concept of good tone can change over night at times.

Mr Songwriter · April 15, 2011

I think I'm better at evaluating guitars than I used to be, having bought a few turkeys over the years, I'm learning to focus more on things like the playability of the neck and the resonance/sustain more now (rather than the amplified sound)...it's relatively cheap and easy to change pickups, tuners and other hardware, but if the neck or the wood is no good you might as well buy another guitar, especially if it's one with a set neck.

craigny · April 15, 2011

I'm so guilty of this..I get totally intoxicated on the rush of the new purchase sometimes, that i'll miss or ignore something at the time....i'm trying to be more focused latley when buying in person. I have also bought online, and just figured that i'll roll the dice and see what happens...i've been pretty lucky in that regard, but yes my "high" gets the better of me sometimes.

C-4 · April 15, 2011

When you have the luxury of living in close proximity* to a store of world-class proportions as Wildwood Guitars is, it becomes a moot point. Close proximity in this case means a driving distance one is accepting to drive.

However, I have purchased most of my guitars, amps, and periferal gear in the last 23 years using high-end internet dealers and OEM's. I know how to ask the questions I need to get the closest answers I can use without actually trying the guitar out in person before purchasing it. I also insist on a window of rejection period to allow me to at least have the guitar in my possession for 24 hours. I only need 5 minutes to make my evaluation, and if I am really interested in possibly keeping it, another 30 minutes to do a full set up, and intonation to see if that particular piece does what I want it to do when I make the adjustments to it.

I may desire a given piece, but if I cannot get that particular piece to adjust as I desire, then I will need another example of it to work on to see if I can get it set up as I desire it to be. This may not necessarily mean just sending another piece. First, I need to find a guitar which meets my basic criteria before just grabbing another example off the rack and sending it.

I find it much easier to deal with OEM's for my guitars, and have purchased my last two from Europe this way. Each time, the guitar has been delivered exactly as I desired it to be. In the past, when I purchased from OEM's, I got the same consistancy as I desired. Sometimes, buying from a store limits you to what they have in stock. Purchasing from an OEM gives one a much wider selection, when time is not of the essence.

Sea men · April 15, 2011

I never buy guitars online. Part of the pleasure of buying a new guitar is going through tons of guitars until you find that special one.

metallica_00 · April 15, 2011

Ideally, I would try everything before I play. There are a lot of things to evaluate, and I like to do side by side comparisons with other potential "competitor" guitars if I can to see which one has the mojo. Unfortunately, a lot of the stuff I want can be hard to track down. I had to order my G&L to get the color/neck combo I wanted. It came fine - but in my experience G&L has really good QC, so I felt more comfortable ordering. With some other mfgs, I wouldn't do that.

If you're going to order or buy online, I think the key is going through a reputable deal. It amazes me that people keep buying from MF after seeing all the crap they send out that should probably be a B-stock or at least worked on prior to shipping. If you order through a more personalized seller with their reputation on the line, you hope they are going to send you a guitar in better shape and screen out the lemons.

soundcreation · April 15, 2011

I've definitely gotten better at it. I can usually tell right away if it will sing. That resonance when you first strum it. When I get it plugged in I listen for balanced frequencies. Not any one of them dominating the others.

Having said that nearly all my guitars have been purchased online. I use reputation and specs. I'm pretty rational (I'd like to think) so I don't get all misty eyed on things I buy. I'll give an honest assessment of my gear. I don't think the 200 dollar Aria Pro II strat I bought is the greatest thing in the world for example. But it met and exceeded my expectations for what 200 bucks would get me. And it certainly outplays nearly every mexican strat I've ever tried...many at a much higher price points. But does it come anywhere near my high end Seymour Duncan strat? Not even close. By any stretch of the imagination. That is the best strat I've ever played. Bar none. And that was an online as well. Of course it was originally a 3000 dollar guitar brand new so it should be pretty nice.

In the end I think if you do your homework well enough and set reasonable expectations for the level of guitar you are buying then buying on line is pretty safe in terms of getting what you want. Either that or I've just been extremely lucky with my online purchases....after getting my guitars and then playing similar guitars at stores by other brands...that obviously don't measure up. Whatever it is though...it's what has made me an extreme believer in the quality and consistency of MIJ guitars. To the point I would not hesitate for a second on the brands I know to be great quality.

maltomario · April 15, 2011

I buy most of my guitars online. If they are dogs, they go back. If there's minor issue, I fix them and negotiate a substantial discount. I'm handy and have excellent setup skills so minor things like bad nut, poor intonation, fret defect, electronic issues, setup issues doesn't concern me that much. Finish damage is evaluated on an individual basis depending on how bad it is. Things like a piece of dead wood that sounds sterile no matter what, or a poorly installed bridge thats off center - that is something that goes back.

In a perfect world, I would love to be near places like Wildwood (plus I'd be close too some cool cats like DocJeffery). All else being equal, I'd prefer to inspect it prior to purchase. However, I'm not near awesome dealers like that, closest place would be The Music Zoo in NYC but even that is a 4hr drive.

If I were to restrict my purchases to only guitars available locally, I'd have missed out on some amazing deals on some pretty unique guitars. Buying online thru a dealer doesn't phase me one bit. After all, they have to roll the dice themselves when getting shipments from factory.

If I'm ever in the position to spend big money on a reaaaaaally nice guitar ($10k+) then I would probably meet up in person if private sale or go to the actual store if a dealer. Especially if you're after a certain type of wood grain/flame/quilt pattern..

Buying thru ebay takes a lot more patience, finesse and sometimes balls of steel. Gotta really know what you're doing or you'll find yourself getting burned by unscrupulous scumbags.

guitarcapo · April 15, 2011

I never understood all the hype around guitars. They're very simple devices. The difference between a very inexpensive one and a very expensive one these days has more to do with the economics of international trade than anything about the guitar.

I can get a great sound even out of a cheap Chinese one. In the old days there was a huge difference but not any more.
Just make sure the action and build quality is good and it sounds how you want it to. Done.

It's like some carpenter spending all day at a Home Depot trying out all the different hammers for the "perfect feel" , "perfect balance"
"perfect swing"....

A bunch of carpenters arguing on some website about how hammers made in China can't compete with American hammers that are made in some old factory since 1855 for driving nails. Different alloys being analyzed.

Some dude with a collection of hammers...a different one for each type of nail he's driving. With some antique ones he only uses on special occasions.

Then there's this one guy who thinks that the more expensive the hammer is, the better it is.
He's got one made from 18K gold. They only made 10 of them and it's got a letter of authenticity.
Funny thing is that gold is kind of a soft metal so when you use the hammer it dents easily....but dents in a hammer have mojo.

Some guys actually tie a hammer to a string and drag it around on the back of their car. It creates this artificial wear on the hammer, so that when they show up at a job site, they look like they are more experienced to impress clients.

And then there was that one famous carpenter. Everybody wants a hammer just like he used his whole career...I think the factory that made it just came out of bankruptcy and now makes a reissue of that legendary tool.

Somewhere in all that craziness I guess houses are still getting built.

soundcreation · April 15, 2011

I never understood all the hype around guitars. They're very simple devices. The difference between a very inexpensive one and a very expensive one these days has more to do with the economics of international trade than anything about the guitar.

I can get a great sound even out of a cheap Chinese one. In the old days there was a huge difference but not any more.

Just make sure the action and build quality is good and it sounds how you want it to. Done.

It's like some carpenter spending all day at a Home Depot trying out all the different hammers for the "perfect feel" , "perfect balance"

"perfect swing"....

A bunch of carpenters arguing on some website about how hammers made in China can't compete with American hammers that are made in some old factory since 1855 for driving nails. Different alloys being analyzed.

Some dude with a collection of hammers...a different one for each type of nail he's driving. With some antique ones he only uses on special occasions.

Then there's this one guy who thinks that the more expensive the hammer is, the better it is.

He's got one made from 18K gold. They only made 10 of them and it's got a letter of authenticity.

Funny thing is that gold is kind of a soft metal so when you use the hammer it dents easily....but dents in a hammer have mojo.

Some guys actually tie a hammer to a string and drag it around on the back of their car. It creates this artificial wear on the hammer, so that when they show up at a job site, they look like they are more experienced to impress clients.

And then there was that one famous carpenter. Everybody wants a hammer just like he used his whole career...I think the factory that made it just came out of bankruptcy and now makes a reissue of that legendary tool.

Somewhere in all that craziness I guess houses are still getting built.

Believe whatever you want dude. And if you're happy with what ever it is you play, and you hear, and feel no difference between any guitars, than good for you.

But that has to be one of the most idiotic analogies I have ever heard.

guitarcapo · April 15, 2011

How so? They are tools for making music.

If you see idiocy there, I'll let you in on something: all that stuff I mentioned doesn't really happen with hammers....I used it to illustrate a point.

soundcreation · April 15, 2011

How so? They are tools for making music.

If you see idiocy there, I'll let you in on something: all that stuff I mentioned doesn't realy happen with hammers....i used it to illustrate a point.

no {censored} shirlock....it's not like your analogy was "over my head" or something. I know exactly what you are saying. I'm saying it's a {censored}ing stupid analogy. Almost as {censored}ing stupid as your 'black chick' singing thread.

Yes a guitar is a tool to make music. Nobody is stupid enough to miss that point.

But if you think the range of differences in guitars from low quality to high quality is the same as for {censored}ing hammers....well...I don't know what to tell you. Maybe you need to get out and actually try a few different guitars.

McCain · April 15, 2011