Members ggm1960 Posted February 6, 2012 Members Share Posted February 6, 2012 I'm wondering if it might be worthwhile to grab one of these. I know very little about violin save for it's strung like a mandolin and probably don't realistically have a hope in hell of learning to play one which would make this a minimal loss investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members karlw Posted February 6, 2012 Members Share Posted February 6, 2012 I'm wondering if it might be worthwhile to grab one of these. I know very little about violin save for it's strung like a mandolin and probably don't realistically have a hope in hell of learning to play one which would make this a minimal loss investment. For your level of expectations, it's certainly low risk. Setup makes a big difference on violins (just like guitars) so I would not expect this instrument to work very well out of the box. With a pro setup, decent strings, and the bow re-haired (probably a total of $100 to 150 in cost) it would probably play OK. Without those tweaks, you may not know the difference between your lack of ability to play and the instrument's lack of ability to sound. Teaching yourself to play has never been easier: just look up videos on YouTube and elsewhere with the fundamentals of technique. It is not physically easy to play at first - have patience with yourself and take it slow. You might also start with the Suzuki book 1 which covers many of the fundamentals. Best of luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ggm1960 Posted February 6, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 6, 2012 With a pro setup, decent strings, and the bow re-haired (probably a total of $100 to 150 in cost) it would probably play OK. Any tips on what constitutes a good setup or perhaps how it differs from a guitar? A dangerous assumption on my part would be that the strings need to curve around just right in order to be able to bow one at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members karlw Posted February 6, 2012 Members Share Posted February 6, 2012 It's really best left to the pros, but here is a basic list: The curve of the top of the bridge - just like you suspectedThe thickness of the bridge, and its heightThe soundpost location (that's the short dowel of wood between the top and the back - it's not glued)The location of the bridge in relation to the F holesLength of the tailpiece strapStringsNut slot depth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scarecrowbob Posted February 6, 2012 Members Share Posted February 6, 2012 My wife is a full-time private violin teacher, but I'll spare you what she'd say IMO, you'd be waaaaayyyyy better off renting an instrument from a reputable shop. You get to use an actual instrument that you know will be setup well. And most real shops will allow you to put the money from your rental towards the purchase of a good instrument. Unlike guitars, most towns of any size have a shop with an instrument rental program. I'll also say that, having see a -whole- lotta people learn late in life (we run a community orchestra), it is entirely possible to learn the instrument even late in life. However, you'll have a much, much easier time with even a couple of lessons. And on a reasonable instrument. Also, if you can find someone to give you a couple of months of lessons, they will know where a good place to find a good instrument will be, so usually it is best to find an instructor, then an instrument. Personally, I don't want any more terrible sounding, hard play instruments, but they sure can be fun and I totally know why you'd be tempted. But in about any case, you're gonna be better off renting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members karlw Posted February 6, 2012 Members Share Posted February 6, 2012 scarecrowbob: I was thinking about adding that, too. Thanks for mentioning rentals as a viable way to go. My daughter is rending a 3/4 size violin right now - it's actually quite nice and is well set up, and it is $20 month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scarecrowbob Posted February 6, 2012 Members Share Posted February 6, 2012 Karl, do you play, too? I've been to ABQ several times specifically for violin-related purposes. Robertson's does amazing work there. My wife broke the ti[p off her prized bow a couple of months ago, and they were able to repair it with this amazing biscuit joint. I'll reiterate what you say here, because it's true: " It is not physically easy to play at first - have patience with yourself and take it slow. You might also start with the Suzuki book 1 which covers many of the fundamentals." My wife is a Suzuki teacher, and I actually learned to play cello last year with this method. Even if folks don't take up with a teacher, the progression of songs is a good solid foundation, and you can do a lot moving through book 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members karlw Posted February 6, 2012 Members Share Posted February 6, 2012 bob - yes, I play violin and viola and I've been to Robertson & Sons many many times - probably hundreds over the years. Two of the owner's sons are friends of mine: Brian who does the bows and Justin who is their head restorer. R & S is a very serious violin shop and an excellent resource for our humble city of Albuquerque. They probably have $10M plus in inventory at any given moment, including Strad or two, maybe more. That's where we rent my daughter's violin, also. Lately, I've been playing a carbon fiber viola - I really like it but it is a bit different than a wooden one. Has your wife tried one? They seem to be catching on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted February 6, 2012 CMS Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 I've had a $15 fiddle here for about 35 years. I've never been able to get past the painful stage and actually produce anything resembling music. Setup is important, sure, and the bow is just as important as the fiddle, but first you gotta get to the point where you can stand to hear yourself practice. A well isolated room helps. I'm serious. There's nothing more discouraging when learning to play a new instrument to just not hear anything rewarding from it no matter how hard you try. Unless you just have an innate talent, you have to work really hard to not get discouraged at first. I could never get there myself, but then I know fiddlers who are better than I'd ever be if I should ever need one. And I enjoy playing guitar and banjo along with a good fiddler more than any other form of music that I've done. Nope, I've never had a lesson in my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scarecrowbob Posted February 6, 2012 Members Share Posted February 6, 2012 Karl, I dunno if I could get my wife to try one. She has a pretty good viola, but judging by the quantity and viciousness of the viola jokes I hear, I dunno if I could get her to try one. We're both playing on carbon fiber bows off and on. After she broker her good bow teaching she wanted to get something that was a little less worrisome, and I was looking for something inexpensive to play on the cello and upright (one day I can home and she had purchased an URB from someone in a local orchestra, and I said "but baby, you don't play bass..." before it dawned on me exactly who she had in mind to play the thing). I'm okay with the URB bow, but neither of us really like the carbon bows on cello or violin. I can't explain it, but they just don't feel as nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeathByDestroyr Posted February 7, 2012 Members Share Posted February 7, 2012 This is becoming a good thread for me to lurk. I want to play cello. It sounds so brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ggm1960 Posted February 7, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 7, 2012 Many years ago I played guitar in an alternate country/bluegrass style group, in fact, my current avatar (sleeveless me) is a photo from one of those gigs. We had a really hot fiddle player (you can see the headstock of his fiddle on the middle left side of the photo) who also played in the city orchestra. He would have been a great help in this regard but sadly he moved away to S Dakota a number of years ago. Fiddle players are hard to come by it seems and can really add to a country flavored group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JeffLearman Posted February 7, 2012 Members Share Posted February 7, 2012 Offhand I can't think of anything that sounds worse than a violin, played anything but really damn well. It has to be one of the hardest instruments to play, even the simplest parts. Glad I'm not your neighbor, but GOOD LUCK! If you're extremely coordinated and very dedicated, you have a good chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scarecrowbob Posted February 7, 2012 Members Share Posted February 7, 2012 Well, I talked to my wife, and she was quite a bit more positive than I thought she might be. She usually teaches kids, but has several adult students, one as old as 65. She says that her best students have been adults who've maybe taken a lesson or two to get a basis and then have done the rest of the study themselves until taking up with her. She says that there are some good lessons here: http://www.violinlab.com/ ... including the first lesson about why you don't want to buy a $50 violin (mostly they will not stay in tune). That said, she grew up in a trailer and played a sears violin through high school, and is now working on her Masters in violin pedagogy... you can't keep a good student down. She also likes this guy: http://fiddlerman.com/ She says that the Peccard is the lowest level that she'd recommend getting (not an affiliate link): http://beststudentviolins.com/violins.html#Peccard She recommends Mel Bay's First Lesson's Violin, and the Mel Bay _Teach Yourself Fiddling_ is not bad.. the tunes are bit more advanced in the second. She says that she usually wouldn't recommend a Mel Bay book and feels like a hack recommending them, but she knows of a student who's had some good luck with them. IMO (I flatpick guitar, sing, and have been playing electric bass for about 12 years, in addition to a bunch of other instruments) it isn't that hard to pick up these instruments (cello in my case) if you have some encouragement and start very basic. If you are wanting to fiddle, I'd still start out with very basic classical instruction/method and then (when you can play the thing kinda in tune with some tone) start trying to pick out fiddle licks from songs that you like and go by ear from there. It isn't a casual instrument that you can plink around on-- the learnig curve is steep. But its doable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ggm1960 Posted February 7, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 7, 2012 If you are wanting to fiddle, I'd still start out with very basic classical instruction/method and then (when you can play the thing kinda in tune with some tone) start trying to pick out fiddle licks from songs that you like and go by ear from there. It isn't a casual instrument that you can plink around on-- the learnig curve is steep. But its doable. Thanks scarecrowbob for some great info! I saw the $50 violin in e-mail and the 'impulse buy' flags started waving. My main prioity continues to be my piano and general keyboard playing which is still a couple of years away from matching my guitar abilities all of which have been suffering since my recent move in December. I wish I could take off a few of the hats I'd rather not have to wear (home maintenance repairman/remodeler, painter, motorcycle mechanic, appliance repairman, janitor, college student tutor, etc.) but things will calm down in the coming months as I get my old home sold and begin to concentrate on what I want to do with the new one. I'm glad I started the thread because I'm catching the drift that purchasing the $50 violin may not be a very good idea. At the same time it's also obvious to me that renting a violin would also be a waste of money in my case, at least at this point in time. I appreciate all the input and advice very much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JeffLearman Posted February 7, 2012 Members Share Posted February 7, 2012 However, there is a great little mandolin for $80 that's worth owning. If you're going to play violin or fiddle, you might as well get a mando, too! Lemme know if you're interested and I'll look it up. For anyone who plays both guitar and violin, mando is almost there by default. You'd have all the skills and knowledge, and would only need to learn the chord voicings (which will also help with fiddle playing). BTW, it's a little known fact even among many who play violin and/or fiddle, but there is a difference between the two. Fiddles tend to have flatter (higher radius) bridge & fingerboard to make it easier to play 3-string licks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members karlw Posted February 7, 2012 Members Share Posted February 7, 2012 However, there is a great little mandolin for $80 that's worth owning. If you're going to play violin or fiddle, you might as well get a mando, too! Lemme know if you're interested and I'll look it up.For anyone who plays both guitar and violin, mando is almost there by default. You'd have all the skills and knowledge, and would only need to learn the chord voicings (which will also help with fiddle playing).BTW, it's a little known fact even among many who play violin and/or fiddle, but there is a difference between the two. Fiddles tend to have flatter (higher radius) bridge & fingerboard to make it easier to play 3-string licks. I've often thought of grabbing a mandolin, exactly for these reasons. Just haven't done it yet. I need another instrument and/or hobby like I need a hole in the head! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scarecrowbob Posted February 7, 2012 Members Share Posted February 7, 2012 I've owned about 6 cheap mandolins in my life, but I always end up giving them away. Good, cheap fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ggm1960 Posted February 7, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 7, 2012 I've owned about 6 cheap mandolins in my life, but I always end up giving them away. Good, cheap fun! Mandolins have always been a popular item at the rural open mics around here. Used to attend frequently but it's been months, maybe even a year or more since I've been to one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kerouac Posted February 7, 2012 Members Share Posted February 7, 2012 This thread has re-ignited my cello GAS. It's also re-ignited my lust for a viola teacher I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted February 7, 2012 Moderators Share Posted February 7, 2012 There's a scene in The Band's movie The Last Waltz. The guys are backstage playing all acoustically... if memory serves it was Ol' Time Religion. Rick Danko the bass player is playing fiddle. Not under his chin, but up against his chest. It looks awkward, it's a bit out of tune, and it sounds like real music. Like all the guys in the Band managed to do. There is nothing proper or right in their execution of the tune, especially Danko's fiddle... and yet... it's perfect. The idea of expanding to another instrument can be approached a few different ways. I'm from the Danko school. "Give me that thing and let's see if I can make some music." Just gotta listen to yourself and adjust accordingly. 50 bucks, set it up, make some music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted February 7, 2012 CMS Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 Rick Danko the bass player is playing fiddle. Not under his chin, but up against his chest. It looks awkward, it's a bit out of tune, and it sounds like real music. Lots of old time fiddlers, and young fiddlers who want to look like they're old time fiddlers, played that way (on the chest, a bit out of tune, sounds like real music). It's easier to hold that way if you don't have to go very far up the neck. You can also get a better sight line to the dancers you're playing for when the fiddle isn't right up in your face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted February 7, 2012 Moderators Share Posted February 7, 2012 Lots of old time fiddlers, and young fiddlers who want to look like they're old time fiddlers, played that way (on the chest, a bit out of tune, sounds like real music). It's easier to hold that way if you don't have to go very far up the neck. You can also get a better sight line to the dancers you're playing for when the fiddle isn't right up in your face. Of course. My point being, Danko found this a way to play the thing. It's not his first instrument as far as I know. This technique gave him access to the instrument. That's smart. Don't belabor correctness. Get it done a make music. At this stage, 2nd instrument and all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted February 7, 2012 Members Share Posted February 7, 2012 I can't offer advice on the $50 violin (despite having been a violinist in my youth), but I will say that on impulse, I once bought a mandolin and a dreadnought for $89 total (i.e., a $45 mando and $45 guitar). It was some special deal at Musician's Friend. Are they great instruments? Hell no! But they get a ton of use in situations where I wouldn't want to take out my nicer gear. I've used both of them for demo recordings, and can keep them out without being concerned about getting damaged. They're usable, and fun, and for that little money, if it's unplayable, you can always just hang it on the wall as art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ggm1960 Posted February 7, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 7, 2012 if it's unplayable, you can always just hang it on the wall as art. Now that's thinking, I'm going to need some of that kind of stuff at the new place! All I have so far is a tamborine. I remember something I once bought from MF (possibly my Fantom XR) came with a free Squier acoustic. I didn't want/need it and sold it to my friend for $50. That's the friend who now has the pro studio built into his house and I played that same guitar one day last year when I went over there to do some recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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