Members ggm1960 Posted April 14, 2012 Members Share Posted April 14, 2012 I bought the Casio Privia PX-3 last year after reading good things about it in Keyboard magazine. It looked like the perfect board for gigs and overall it really is. It's full 88 with weighted keys and yet weighs slightly less than 25lbs. I knew it had a limited number of sounds but that's ok, it's got the ones I need and they sound great. I also knew going in that it wouldn't be nearly as midi friendly as the Roland and Korg units I have experience with. Somehow I convinced myself that wouldn't be an issue because I was just going to use it for simple gigging and jam sessions and I'd never even look at the midi capabilities.........I don't know who I thought I was fooling! Now of course, I'd like to automate my gig setup a bit like I've often done in the past. As some may know I've typically played both guitar and keys at gigs for years. Currently I'm going direct with guitar and keys using a Digitech GSP1101 for guitar, the PX-3 for keys and a Behringer K1800fx keyboard amp for a powered monitor. Makes for a pretty streamlined and simple setup overall. Thing is though, aside from four somewhat generic general use patches, I like to create guitar patches for each song that we do even if many of them don't vary much. At the same time I also need to get the keyboard sound I need lined up quickly because many times I'll be playing guitar and keys during the same song and we never stick to the set list. Anyway (wow, this is getting long) in the past I've found a quick solution for changing patches simultaneously on multiple units is to use an old MOTU Midi Timepiece II unit that can be setup to do it stand-alone with an older Mac running the ClockWorks program under OS9. One limitation however is that this system doesn't allow for Bank Select messages, only Patch Changes. Typically this is easily overcome on more featured boards/rackmounts by simply copying all the patches one will need into a User Bank (a good idea anyway) while other units (guitar/effects/vocal processors etc.) only have one bank for users to manipulate anyway. The Casio though, don't play that game. Accessing the patches for it is crazy; even ones right next to each other are in different banks and looking at the tone list it would seem bank and program assignments were made by dart board throws! There is one last chance to make this work though, using SysEx messages to remotely change patches on the PX-3...........if only I could figure out how to get one written! It's easy up to a point but then I run into parameters that are not really, or understandably, explained in the manual or midi implementation guide. Generally with the big boys (Roland, Korg, Yamaha, etc.) there has already been many an experienced user manipulating these things in every way imaginable and finding an answer to a problem is a quick Google search away. Casio.......not so much. I'll give credit to Casio support however. I've e-mailed them and it appears they are genuinely interested in helping me resolve this situation. I guess there's not really a point to this thread, just felt like I needed to share this with others that might actually have a clue what I'm experiencing. Then, of course, it would be awesome if someone who read this actually had some detailed knowledge that could help me out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted April 15, 2012 Members Share Posted April 15, 2012 Hmm...I think if I was in your situation I'd just get an old laptop, load up most any inexpensive (or free) DAW that can just send bank/patch changes and set up tracks that can send the messages with a click. Track 1 = song 1, etc.... But I understand why you're trying to get that old MOTU bit of kit to work in the "modern" world. I still have an Opcode Studio 64x that I've been using for years as a MIDI router - a total rig job and a crappy one at that since the software died with Win 98 - until I finally gave up and got a new M-Audio Midisport of evilBay for a song. I mean they just don't build the new stuff thinking about sysex geeks setting up their custom complex multi-unit contol centers using sysex, do they? Maybe you'll get it work - best of luck, but it's kinda like sending text messages with a rotary phone...some geek could probably figure out how to do it but the entire universe echoes back "why?????????? nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ggm1960 Posted April 15, 2012 Author Members Share Posted April 15, 2012 I have done what you suggest in the past with great success but a big part of it is that I'd like to avoid bringing a computer, for now at least. Sure the Midi Timepiece II is old but my AV models can be setup the same way. Even though my setup is dirt simple compared to others I've put together in the past it's still more than anyone else in the band for the simple reason that I'm doing two instruments. As it is right now I'm in good shape with my guitar patches and I can save my most commonly used keyboard patches into these so-called Registration Memory locations on the Casio, sorta like having a user bank. It'll work for me although it's annoying that the chosen mem locations patch doesn't show in the display. The MTP II unit doesn't add much as it's really lightweight, goes right into my rack case with the wireless units, direct box, Furman, GSP1101 unit and I only need a couple of short midi cables to get 'er done. I can certainly make do with what I've got, however, Casio definitely states that patches can be changed with a sysex message so I'm gonna expend a little effort trying to make them prove it. It really shouldn't be that difficult if they can give a little insight into 3 or 4 of these parameters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted April 15, 2012 Members Share Posted April 15, 2012 I've done the sys ex message thing way back when...as I recall it was a PITA unless the messages were fairly short, which program change messages should be. You might try dumping a single patch into something that can read it, and reverse engineer how they did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ggm1960 Posted April 16, 2012 Author Members Share Posted April 16, 2012 I've done the sys ex message thing way back when...as I recall it was a PITA unless the messages were fairly short, which program change messages should be.You might try dumping a single patch into something that can read it, and reverse engineer how they did it. It occurred to me that perhaps I should try to capture what comes in when I punch a patch button on the keyboard, perhaps with that Midi Monitor OSX freebie program. Is that what you're suggesting Craig? Or seems like I vaguely remember being able to capture sysex/midi dumps in a window within Sonar 2-7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philbo Posted April 19, 2012 Members Share Posted April 19, 2012 Does the thing have a programmable User bank? Maybe just copy the patches you want into it, in whatever order works for you. That's what I did with my guitar synth - out of 384 patches, only about 10 of them were usable for gigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ggm1960 Posted April 21, 2012 Author Members Share Posted April 21, 2012 Ok I got this straightened out. After studying the Midi Message Table a while I discovered that Bank Select is a subset of Control Change. Since the old Clockworks program allows Controllers to be inserted that problem was solved without the need for sysex. That's not quite the end of the story however. These Casio are so weird....I have to turn Local On/Off to off and feed the PX-3's midi output back to it's input! How strange is that?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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