Frettbuzz because of the weather???

[ashasha]

Check your nut real quick. I really doubt that's the issue since it was playing fine and you didn't do anything to it since it was setup.

 

Anyway to check it just fret at the 3rd fret and then tap the string onto the 1st fret. Do this for each string, one at a time. You should hear a 'plink' sound each time. If you don't then you've got a blown nut (which really shouldn't matter on any of the fretted notes). But at least we can eliminate that as an issue for the open strings.

 

If it was me I'd give it another half turn and quit farting around with it. I look at it like this, it's messed up already and loosening it a bit ain't going to hurt it. And if it's buzzing on that many spots a 1/4 turn ain't going to do squat. Like I said you'll be messing with this thing till the next season rolls around.

 

Take a measurement of where you're at using the method we told you about, fretting the first and last to see if you've moved at all and to see where you're at. If you've got feeler gauges that'd be great, but picks, stacks of paper, whatever is good. Then give it a 1/2 turn, let it sit for a few hours and measure just to see if we're even moving. You can always put the turns back on.

[KevinTJH]

I tried the business card trick on my SG (no issues at all with that guitar) and I noticed it slided through the 6th string a little easier, compared to my BC Rich.

So I guess my BC Rich probably has much less relief than it should.

 

Now I've done another 1/2 turn ( 1 full turn in total ).

I'm really not sure if I've messed up my trussrod though! The trussrod feels so light to turn that it's almost like a loose screw that would just fall off if you tipped it over.

 

 

 

Also, just one more question. I'm having a little buzz on my strat too (I've not touched this axe in months!). Compared to my other 2 guitars, this one probably has no relief at all because the card just won't slide in.

Should I loosen the truss rod on this one a little too?

[KevinTJH]

bump.

 

Sorry guys, I just really need your help!

[Pope on a Rope]

Have you tried physical persuasion yet? If it won't move on it's own you'll have to make it move.

[ashasha]

If it's all the way loose, then I'd go ahead and put the full turn back into it and take it to the guy who set it up. I know that it's a long trip, but without seeing it in person it's hard to know what's going on for sure and we seem to be getting no where really fast.

 

You could try checking for a high fret, but if it played fine before unless it came unseated I'd find it doubtful. You need to find a short straight edge that will cover 3 frets and not more than that.

 

Basically you want to simulate this:

 

[video=youtube;Jt0P4U5XYx8]

[KevinTJH]

 

Have you tried physical persuasion yet? If it won't move on it's own you'll have to make it move.

 

Wouldn't I risk breaking the neck?

 

 

When I checked the relief again, I found that the neck hasn't even moved at all. There's still barely any relief on it. What a stubborn neck!

 

 

How about if I tuned the guitar a whole step/half step up to increase string tension? Would that speed up the process a little?

[GAS Man]

Hmm, some of this is weirding me out a bit.

 

I've scan read a fair amount of what has been said here and it looks like you've gotten all the good advice needed.

 

To recap - yes - even with a good setup, a neck can indeed continue to bow backwards after it leaves the luthier's/tech's shop.

 

But it really only should have required about a quarter turn counter clockwise (that is looking from the headstock towards the bridge) to have restored enough relief to eliminate the fret buzz. I'd say 1/2 turn at the most.

 

Also, you can indeed flex the neck with your hands by pushing down in the middle of the fretboard, just be careful you don't snap of a Gibson style headstock.

 

But what concerns me is that you're now saying the truss rod feels loose.

 

I would also check one of your worst buzzing strings - start by fretting it at the first fret and work your way all the way up through the 22nd (or whatever) fret. If your buzzing suddenly stops dramatically somewhere mid way, then the fret you are one may possibly have risen up. I agree with Ashasha that that would be unlikely, but it only takes seconds to check

[GAS Man]

 

How about if I tuned the guitar a whole step/half step up to increase string tension? Would that speed up the process a little?

 

 

Wouldn't hurt, but it shouldn't be necessary either. Most necks respond fairly quickly to a loosening of the truss rod and a little manual manipulation.

 

I'm thinking you're going to want to get it back to the shop. Usually neck thru guitar necks are more stable than most. They are often multi-pieced laminates which add extra stability.

[mrbrown49]

A full turn is a lot for a seasonal adjustment. If you aren't really sure what you are doing I'd take it somewhere to be checked out, just to be safe.

[WRGKMC]

If you hold down the first and last frets of each string and pluck the string around the 7th frets and the strings just clear all the other frets, then

the fret buzz isnt relief. It may be string height, gauge, intonation, nut height, pickup height pulling down on the strings, or high frets.

All of these have to be looked at. As MrBrown mentioned, if you havent learned to do a step by step setup using feeler gauges and rulers, take it to

someone who knows how to do factory adjustments.

 

As a note* Some necks will not settle back in after over tensioning. I've seen a butload that had green wood when the neck was set or the grain of the wood just bowed back without truss tension as the wood cures. I actually have two necks I've bought that had this issue. One I had to remove the frets and relevel the fretboard that was really bad. The other has a completely loose truss rod and the neck is dead flat with no relief. A neck may start off being good. Jam some frets in the fretboard and its going to want to spread the fretboard out and make it longer. This can cause back bow. But there is only one way to know, and that is to measure. You can guess all you want, the measurements tell the story.

Be sure your pickups are backed off too. With the strings held down at the last fret the pickups should clear a typical Humbucker 3~5mm.

A typical single coil is may be 3mm on the high side, 5mm on the low side. the way you know if the magnets are pulling the strings down and causing buzz is to just back them down.

You can count the number of turns you take them down if you want. Do say, 3~5 complete turns down on each adjustment screw and see if theres an improvement. If thats not it, then you can bring them back up.

actually twist and bow as the wood

[Pope on a Rope]

 

Wouldn't I risk breaking the neck? When I checked the relief again, I found that the neck hasn't even moved at all. There's still barely any relief on it. What a stubborn neck! How about if I tuned the guitar a whole step/half step up to increase string tension? Would that speed up the process a little?

 

 

You won't risk breaking the neck unless you're a gorilla and you really force it or you jump on it. As I mentioned earlier you might be waiting a long time for the neck to move on it's own even with the greater tension of a higher tuning or heavier strings.

 

You're on day 5 now. Show the guitar who's boss. This should have only been a 5 minute operation.

 

Set the guitar between your legs. Grab the neck up at the nut and pull it like your folding it towards the front of the guitar, and at the same time hold the middle of the neck and pull it in the opposite direction you are pulling the headstock. It shouldn't take a lot of effort to do this. All you are doing is breaking whatever is binding loose.

[KevinTJH]

 

Grab the neck up at the nut and pull it like your folding it towards the front of the guitar, and at the same time hold the middle of the neck and pull it in the opposite direction you are pulling the headstock. It shouldn't take a lot of effort to do this. All you are doing is breaking whatever is binding loose.

 

I'll be doing that several times a day from now on, until the problem is solved.

 

I don't know if it's meant to be a miracle or not (in my situation), but I think the neck has finally moved a little!

I can't be entirely sure whether it's a major improvement but I think the fretbuzz on the first two frets (esepcially the 1st) has diminished a little, though it's still not enough to get a clean sound.

 

One thing's for sure, I know that all my frets are perfectly levelled, because I previously sent the guitar to have the uneven frets fixed. I tested it once in the store, and the guy had missed 1 fret. So I immediately took it back and he fixed it. I then tested EVERY fret the second time, and there was absolutely no buzz at all (at that time).

 

The tallest part of my bridge pickup is about 4.5mm from the 6th string when open. When fretted on the 6th string last fret, probably 3mm or less.

Strange thing is that on my SG, the bridge pickup is angled in such a way that it's actually only about 1.5mm away, when fretting the last fret on the 6th string, and yet there isn't any buzz!

Just a quick question, if my pickups were potentially the culprit to this problem, why did my guitar seem fine the first week I got it back from the store?

 

Also, I don't really know if this is normal. I think I remember some of you guys mentioning the 7th fret for being the centre point for checking relief, in my case, the biggest gap is actually around the 4th - 6th fret. Not much on the 7th.

 

 

I'll probably give myself another week of "safely" attempting to fix this problem before taking it to the store. I'll try out all the methods mentioned above.

[WRGKMC]

 

One thing's for sure, I know that all my frets are perfectly levelled, because I previously sent the guitar to have the uneven frets fixed. I tested it once in the store, and the guy had missed 1 fret. So I immediately took it back and he fixed it. I then tested EVERY fret the second time, and there was absolutely no buzz at all (at that time).

 

 

Wish I had know that at th3e beginning of the post. i thought this was a new guitar.

 

The correct method of leveling frets is to use a notched straight edge. You remove truss tension sometimes all, then used the notched straight edge and get the fretboard level.

Then and only then do you level the frets. Once restrung, you readjust the truss. If the tech didnt do this he may have leveled the frets to a fretboard that wasnt level and it

would account for your troubble having getting the correct relief.

 

The other possibility is your neck is just slow to change with truss changes. Thin necks change almost immediately. Necks with more wood, thicker necks can be very slow or not change at all.

It may be the tech overtightened the neck after leveling and it continued to back bow over a period of time. Like tuning strings where its better to tune up to a note, taking thr tendsion off the truss

so you have more relief than needed, then gradually increasing tension a littel at a time, no more than 1/8 of a turn is the way I do them. You Must use a straight edge and feeler guage though.

You cant guess on this stuff, or go by feel or buzz. You adjust the truss so you have between .009~.011" clearance at the 5~7th frets.

 

Thats it. If you still have buzz, and the string heights are correct with 4/64 clearence on the high E string above the 12th fret and 6/64ths clearence above the 12th fret with the low string and the other strings properly radiused with an under string radius gauge, then the buzz is because the guy screwed up the fret leveling.

 

Theres no magic or guesswork here, just fine measurements made in the upright playing position.

[GAS Man]

I think the neck has finally moved a little! I can't be entirely sure whether it's a major improvement but I think the fretbuzz on the first two frets (esepcially the 1st) has diminished a little, though it's still not enough to get a clean sound.

 

Now that worries me too.

 

If you are getting fret buzz at the very first fret, then there is a good chance that the nut slots are cut too low.

 

I had this happen on a brand new Epiphone Slash model. I didn't even spot it, but I should have.

I do know how to adjust truss rods and did so on the Slash (and that was what started the buzzing) and I just immediately thought I had some uneven frets. When I brought it to the Guitar Doctor, he immediately spotted that the nut slots were too low.

One thing that did piss me off about that particular unit, was I bought it from a store that does prior inspections. It was obvious that either at the factory or at their inspection prior to shipping, someone had just cranked the bridge up until the buzzing had stopped. So when I got that guitar, out of the box it was like my fretting fingers were walking the tight ropes instead of playing a gitfiddle.

 

Regardless of how the neck tension is set up, you should be able to fret the strings at the 3rd fret and then there still needs to be a gap between the first fret wire and the bottom of the strings. The Guitar Doctor likes the distance to be approximately 1/2 of the thickness of the string gauge for each location. So for the low E position that gap should be about .023 & .005 for the high e, etc.. Now personally, I like them cut a bit lower than that on the bass side, but you should give that a quick check. If you fret at the 3rd fret and there is not gap above the first fret, then you will need to have the nut shimmed up, slots filled in, or the nut replaced (your choice)

[KevinTJH]

Thanks again for the responses, guys.

 

 

Regardless of how the neck tension is set up, you should be able to fret the strings at the 3rd fret and then there still needs to be a gap between the first fret wire and the bottom of the strings.

 

Yes there is a slight gap between the first fret and the string, when I press on the 3rd fret (on the 6th string). On the 1st string, I can barely spot a gap. However, the major buzz is coming from the wound strings (4th-6th string).

 

I don't know if I'm still going the right direction, but I get the feeling that relief is still the major culprit here, since this guitar has a smaller "relief gap" than the other guitars.

[Pope on a Rope]

 

Thanks again for the responses, guys. I'm really not too sure how to measure that, but I can't slide in a business card as easily as I can on my other guitars, so it definitely has definitely has much less relief, despite having one of the thinnest necks. Just a side question, I recently noticed that my SG actually has the same amount of "relief gap" between the 5~7th frets and the 12th~15th frets. Is there too much relief going on there or is it a normal? It's really hard to take those measurements with a ruler, but I've tried it anyway, and the measurements seem about right so I believe string height should be fine. Just to be more specific though, the fretbuzz is only occuring on the 1st and 2nd frets . Yes there is a slight gap between the first fret and the string, when I press on the 3rd fret (on the 6th string). On the 1st string, I can barely spot a gap. However, the major buzz is coming from the wound strings (4th-6th string). I don't know if I'm still going the right direction, but I get the feeling that relief is still the major culprit here, since this guitar has a smaller "relief gap" than the other guitars.

 

 

Just do again, what you did to get where you are now. Keep doing it until the neck is where you want it.

[KevinTJH]

Okay. I shall continue with the manual "neck bowing".

 

Just a quick question, should the relief in the 12th~15th fret be about the same as the 5th~7th? Or is that considered abnormal?

[WRGKMC]

 

Okay. I shall continue with the manual "neck bowing". Just a quick question, should the relief in the 12th~15th fret be about the same as the 5th~7th? Or is that considered abnormal?

 

 

Yes its abnormal. The strings at the 12th fret with the 1st and last frets held down should barely clear the 12th fret

It should have maybe Half the thickness of a piece of paper (.005") clearance max at that fret.

If its more than that, your fret buzzing isnt the relief.

 

From what it sounds like you're not using measurement tools and just guessing on what your'e doing and trusting others are right.

 

The problem bay be bad strings that are bent at the low frets or the string height is wrong or the intonation is way off.

When people give advice they do expect that all the other adjustments are dead on accurate.

 

I suggest you spend $10 and buy a metal ruler that will measure down to 1/64ths and set of feeler gauges.

If you are a guitarist, you'll be making these adjustments the rest of your life on a regular basis.

You should learn to do the adjustments by the book then and only then tweak things to your own taste.

 

If the bridge is too low "the strings will buzz".

 

Adjusting the truss rasies the strings. You may be fixing the problem with the wrong friggin adjustment.

Then by fixing the problem with the wrong adjustment you create another problem.

If you have too much relief you will never be able to get the strings intonated correctly

and the strings above the 12th fret will all be sharp.

 

GO HERE http://www.fender.com/support/articles/stratocaster-setup-guide

 

Its a fender setup guide but the actual measurements are universdal to all guitars.

 

Set the instrument to FACTORY ADJUSTMENTS.

If you havent got the tools on the list you shouldnt be messing with the adjustments to begin with.

 

You must complete all of the adjustments correctly.

 

Since one adjustment affects all the others have to go through them over and over in a cycle string height, intonation, and relief

over and over till theres no more adjustments to be made.

 

You have to be getting realy close to being correct before the instrument all of a sudden starts sounding right.

From then on its all micro tweaking things in using the tuner and your ears to bet the best setup that is unique to that instrumet.

Again, theres no guessing on this stuff. Do it by the book and its hard to go wrong. if everything is set to specs and you still

have a problem, its likely a fret height problem thet needs to be properly repaired by a pro.

[Pope on a Rope]

 

Okay. I shall continue with the manual "neck bowing". Just a quick question, should the relief in the 12th~15th fret be about the same as the 5th~7th? Or is that considered abnormal?

 

 

I would not consider that to be abnormal at least not on my guitars or other guitars that are set up properly for lower action. When setting up a guitar for low action you generally set the neck flatter than what's recommended in most set up guides. The flatter the fretboard is and the lower the action, the closer in height the strings will be at those frets.

[KevinTJH]

 

The flatter the fretboard is and the lower the action, the closer in height the strings will be at those frets.

 

Now back to my BC Rich (the guitar with the fretbuzz on the 1st-2nd frets).

 

Maybe that's the reason why I had much less relief on that guitar, because I actually requested to have the action set up really low, so the tech guy probably set the neck a little flatter I guess? Which in the end caused back bow over a period of a couple weeks?

 

 

 

 

Sorry guys, if I've confused you with my previous post (#42) as I was actually referring to 2 guitars.

[Doctor49]

I think you need to take it back to get a pro set up.

If you don't really know what influences what with action, relief, buzzing etc, you can circle in bigger and bigger circles until its impossible to get right.

 

Try to sit in when the tech does it so you can learn, or get some you tube set-up vids.

 

It will be worth it in the end and trading tips and advice here is always risky because no one else can see what you are talking about.

 

BTW there is very little that is abnormal or normal about setups. It is very largely a matter of taste to fit your playing style.

[GAS Man]

 

It will be worth it in the end and trading tips and advice here is always risky because no one else can see what you are talking about.

 

 

I agree. I keep circling back to this thread to see how it's coming, but I've been shutting up more than contributing for exactly that reason above.

[KevinTJH]

 

I think you need to take it back to get a pro set up. If you don't really know what influences what with action, relief, buzzing etc, you can circle in bigger and bigger circles until its impossible to get right. Try to sit in when the tech does it so you can learn, or get some you tube set-up vids. It will be worth it in the end and trading tips and advice here is always risky because no one else can see what you are talking about. BTW there is very little that is abnormal or normal about setups. It is very largely a matter of taste to fit your playing style.

 

Alright then. Thanks a lot for your advice. I'll probably take it back to the store and get them to set it up for me "again". Only thing is I might not have the luxury of sitting down with the Tech and learn, because they're usually too busy that it would take several days before they can even attend to the instrument you left with them. It would definitely be nice if you had a guitar tech as a friend!

[Pope on a Rope]

 

Alright then. Thanks a lot for your advice. I'll probably take it back to the store and get them to set it up for me "again". Only thing is I might not have the luxury of sitting down with the Tech and learn, because they're usually too busy that it would take several days before they can even attend to the instrument you left with them. It would definitely be nice if you had a guitar tech as a friend!

 

 

You're better off just figuring it out for yourself. It will just happen again. Weather is always going to cause the neck to get tweaked. Just loosen the truss rod nut so it spins freely, make it go so thet you have too much relief and then just tighten the nut until you get it where you want.

 

Adjusting the truss rod is no where near as difficult and dangerous as people make it out to be. Truss rods aren't made of glass.

[KevinTJH]

Thanks Pope. I feel the same way too.

 

I'll be taking that guitar back to the store tomorrow anyway, to have the grounding issue fixed. I think the guy didn't do a good job with it, so I can get it fixed for free. (I would fix it myself if I could but it's so hard to diagnose the problem because everything appears to be soldered on professionally, even the tech guy himself said he previously had re-solder all the joints just to make sure.)

 

So I might as well get him to look into the fretbuzz for me.

 

 

 

 

Adjusting the truss rod is no where near as difficult and dangerous as people make it out to be. Truss rods aren't made of glass.

 

I really have to agree with that. After all, any adverse effects on the neck would be gradually and not overnight right?