Members Hurtzher Posted July 31, 2011 Members Share Posted July 31, 2011 You know, there's almost no difference between the OFR and the FR Special other than country of manufacture (and a slight bevel on the back edge of the saddles). I've had both and the Special is a very good trem. Switching one out for an OFR would be a waste of money. A big brass block would be cool though. My local mom and pop shop stocks quite a few budget axes that use the FRS (mostly BC Rich guitars). I think they are dayum great for the money. I'm sure you're right, it probably would be a waste of money......certainly something to consider. But, then again I have always wanted to own a German made OFR, LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BryanMichael Posted July 31, 2011 Members Share Posted July 31, 2011 "solid steel" is an alloy. As to increasing sustain with a brass block...well you would first have to prove that consequential string energy is making its way to that part of the trem, and secondly prove that the increased mass was less likely to absorb said energy, then thirdly that said energy was somehow returned back to the string in a manner that did not cause net energy loss though phase cancellations. I am not saying that a more firmly affixed bridge does not have the potential for improved sustain as opposed to a less firmly affixed bridge, but only that things are not as simple as they may seem. I think you are getting bogged down in semantics. The general consensus among just about everyone that plays them is that a FR system reduces sustain over a traditional LP style bridge, but I'm not thinking of this as an LP "replacement" - it is it's own thing. And there have been comparisons done and posted about everything from the effect that bridge and saddle materials have on tone to the "brass block" sustain arguments about Floyds. While I wouldn't say that all of those things are 'conclusive evidence' - the general consensus is that there is a difference, whether that difference is really important to you, is too subtle to matter, or whatever - the general agreement is that the difference exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tweak'd Posted July 31, 2011 Members Share Posted July 31, 2011 My PRO/FX has great sustain. I don't usually pay all that much attention what's "supposed" to be with guitars...I think "what is" is far more important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hurtzher Posted July 31, 2011 Members Share Posted July 31, 2011 According to all sources, the ONLY difference in the Special and the OFR is exactly what you mentioned....and that the SADDLES are made from solid steel on the OFR and an alloy on the Special. To hurtz: The Special is NOT however a "licensed" import Floyd it is A REAL FLOYD ROSE (think of it as their "official" import model as opposed to a cheaper knockoff) So I agree, that in many ways it would be a waste of money to get an OFR, but I do want to put the brass block in mine . That said, the Pro FX DEFIES logic in some ways, It has fantastic sustain for a FR guitar, not quite as much as a full on LP, but seriously - it's quite remarkable. Also, the routes for the pickups go THROUGH the body into the tremolo cavity, which seems like a cheap shortcut IMO, but to be honest? it is a great playing, great sounding, great looking guitar - especially if your replace the (decent!) Epi pickups with your favorite humbuckers of choice. Now, I did not know that. I thought the plate was a different material too. If that's the case, then upgrading to the OFR would indeed be a waste of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members aliensporebomb Posted July 31, 2011 Members Share Posted July 31, 2011 Watching Chappers abuse the living daylights out of the Floyd on that guitar was good fun. I expected the both of them to break out laughing throughout it was so excessive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chumer Posted July 31, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 31, 2011 I think you are getting bogged down in semantics. The general consensus among just about everyone that plays them is that a FR system reduces sustain over a traditional LP style bridge, but I'm not thinking of this as an LP "replacement" - it is it's own thing. And there have been comparisons done and posted about everything from the effect that bridge and saddle materials have on tone to the "brass block" sustain arguments about Floyds. While I wouldn't say that all of those things are 'conclusive evidence' - the general consensus is that there is a difference, whether that difference is really important to you, is too subtle to matter, or whatever - the general agreement is that the difference exists. If you are a fan of Logical Fallacies (as I am) then you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BryanMichael Posted August 1, 2011 Members Share Posted August 1, 2011 If you are a fan of Logical Fallacies (as I am) then you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chumer Posted August 1, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 1, 2011 Hmmm...while I agree that the BELIEF doesn't necessarily make it true, when I read tons of forum posts from FR users that say that the brass block made a difference, I'm going to believe that there is probably something to it. It's a little more than just "popular opinion" at that point because it has been tested and vetted through a certain (non-scientific) "Peer Review" process. It doesn't mean that the difference will be something that I value or need, but seeing as metals have different properties, and that ANY guitar is a "system" of parts, I would believe that a brass block has a high likelihood of "making a difference" - even if it is a subtle one.Adding the logical fallacy of argumentum ad nauseam (argument from repetition) by restating your prior logical fallacy of argumentum ad populum does not support your assertions. To substantiate your claims, you would need to provide an empirical argument i.e. accumulated evidence rather than theory or supposition or belief. A good digital recording oscilloscope would be a start, and I have access to the Tektronix ones, but I do not have two guitars that are otherwise identical except for the variables we are discussing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Valtyr Posted August 1, 2011 Members Share Posted August 1, 2011 Here is a pic of the Pro fx I got this weekend. I still need to adjust the Floyd and the intonation, but I got the action set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BryanMichael Posted August 1, 2011 Members Share Posted August 1, 2011 Adding the logical fallacy of argumentum ad nauseam (argument from repetition) by restating your prior logical fallacy of argumentum ad populum does not support your assertions.To substantiate your claims, you would need to provide an empirical argument i.e. accumulated evidence rather than theory or supposition or belief.A good digital recording oscilloscope would be a start, and I have access to the Tektronix ones, but I do not have two guitars that are otherwise identical except for the variables we are discussing. Well, why bother to participate in a guitar forum then? None of us is going to provide empirical evidence, and never have I argued that this IS empirical evidence, only that I've found the forum RELIABLE when a certain critical mass is achieved with a given opinion. For example, if I say I have X amount of money to spend and 85% of forumites RECOMMEND a certain guitar/amp/effect to achieve what I'm looking for within that dollar amount, I'm going to give the opinion a certain amount of weight. Why? As I stated before, it is a sort of "peer review" process, albeit a NON SCIENTIFIC peer review process, but I have found it to be RELIABLE and that is all that really matters, not whether or not there is EMPIRICAL evidence to support the claims. If you want to HEAR the differences, check out this NON SCIENTIFIC, NON EMPIRICAL, SUBJECTIVE LISTENING test: http://floydupgrades.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=page&id=48 Or go get your oscilloscope and search for two guitars, do years of research, and then make a decision. For me, the listening test is enough "reliable" evidence, albeit completely subjective- but YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BryanMichael Posted August 1, 2011 Members Share Posted August 1, 2011 Here is a pic of the Pro fx I got this weekend. I still need to adjust the Floyd and the intonation, but I got the action set. Nice score! Take those paper rings off pronto, the finish will fade around them, leaving rings. Mine has evened out a bit, but they were there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phrankenstrat Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 Mine will be here on Wednesday. Desert Burst. Realize I will have to do a full set up on it. Does anyone know what condition the fret ends are on these? Nothing bugs me more than fret hangover. See, Ibanez, Schecter, ESP LTD, Fernandes, etc. But honestly, a Les Paul with a Floyd? Gotta love it. Hate a guitar without a whammy bar! This could fulfill some GAS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BryanMichael Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 Mine will be here on Wednesday. Desert Burst. Realize I will have to do a full set up on it. Does anyone know what condition the fret ends are on these? Nothing bugs me more than fret hangover. See, Ibanez, Schecter, ESP LTD, Fernandes, etc. But honestly, a Les Paul with a Floyd? Gotta love it. Hate a guitar without a whammy bar! This could fulfill some GAS! My fret ends were perfect. IMO, they did a good job making these feel more like an "upper end" Epi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phrankenstrat Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 My fret ends were perfect. IMO, they did a good job making these feel more like an "upper end" Epi. That's good to hear. I don't mind leveling so much it's when you feel the ends when sliding up and down the neck that drives me crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tweak'd Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 My neck is fantastic...no sharp frets ends and ruler flat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hurtzher Posted August 3, 2011 Members Share Posted August 3, 2011 The SDOTD for 08/03 is the heritage cherry sunburst model.http://www.musiciansfriend.com/stupid/ $399! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phrankenstrat Posted August 3, 2011 Members Share Posted August 3, 2011 The SDOTD for 08/03 is the heritage cherry sunburst model.http://www.musiciansfriend.com/stupid/$399! At that price, it's crazy NOT to pick one up if the funds are available. Even if it does need some setup work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cbh5150 Posted August 3, 2011 Members Share Posted August 3, 2011 My fret ends were perfect. IMO, they did a good job making these feel more like an "upper end" Epi.Got mine yesterday. I agree, although the frets could use a polish, or just a whole bunch of bends up and down the neck Otherwise, the neck is quite nice, if a bit flatter radius than usual, and slim-taper? I don't think so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phrankenstrat Posted August 3, 2011 Members Share Posted August 3, 2011 Got mine yesterday. I agree, although the frets could use a polish, or just a whole bunch of bends up and down the neck Otherwise, the neck is quite nice, if a bit flatter radius than usual, and slim-taper? I don't think so... I haven't had a chance to play one. No one around here had them in stock. Is the neck one of those old baseball bat type necks? That's why I've avoided Gibson guitars in general. Some of their necks are just plain fat! I'm currently playing a G&L Comanche as my main guitar right now. Very comfortable neck. I can take thicker but not those "50's Rounded Necks". Those are horrible for me although I have friends who swear by them. Just not my bag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BryanMichael Posted August 3, 2011 Members Share Posted August 3, 2011 Got mine yesterday. I agree, although the frets could use a polish, or just a whole bunch of bends up and down the neck Otherwise, the neck is quite nice, if a bit flatter radius than usual, and slim-taper? I don't think so... Slim taper compared to their standard baseball bat neck, yes! Phrankenstrat, it is NOT as thick and chunky as the standard neck, BUT it IS a Les Paul, so, it isn't a strat, or modern shred profile- it's still pretty chunky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phrankenstrat Posted August 3, 2011 Members Share Posted August 3, 2011 Slim taper compared to their standard baseball bat neck, yes! Phrankenstrat, it is NOT as thick and chunky as the standard neck, BUT it IS a Les Paul, so, it isn't a strat, or modern shred profile- it's still pretty chunky. Kind of closer to a 335 I'm hoping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members walkerci Posted August 4, 2011 Members Share Posted August 4, 2011 FUUUUUUUUUUU! Did anyone happen to notice that yesterday's MF Stoopid Deal of the Day was the Honeyburst for $399?!? Yup, I did and even those I'm a bassist, a deal like that is too huge to pass up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phrankenstrat Posted August 4, 2011 Members Share Posted August 4, 2011 Got it yesterday. The frets were actually in very good shape. Kudos Epiphone! The action on this thing is atrocious. Worked with it for a while. Truss rod, 9's, lower action, set intonation. Fret buzz like crazy when action is set where I like it. Move up and plays like crap. Granted, spent the last 20 years or so setting up Strat style guitars. This thing has me befuddled. Will work on it more tonight. The strings seem abnormally tense. I thought with the shorter scale, they would feel much looser than my G&L's. Not the case at all. The sounds are surprisingly good. Pickups much better than I anticipated. I was all ready to pull the trigger on either some DiMarzio's or Duncan's but will definitely be holding off on that for now. Best sustaining Floyd guitar I've ever had. It sounds really good in my Mesa Express 5:50. Now if I can just get this action/fret buzz thing resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Valtyr Posted August 4, 2011 Members Share Posted August 4, 2011 Got it yesterday. The frets were actually in very good shape. Kudos Epiphone! The action on this thing is atrocious. Worked with it for a while. Truss rod, 9's, lower action, set intonation. Fret buzz like crazy when action is set where I like it. Move up and plays like crap. Granted, spent the last 20 years or so setting up Strat style guitars. This thing has me befuddled. Will work on it more tonight. The strings seem abnormally tense. I thought with the shorter scale, they would feel much looser than my G&L's. Not the case at all. The sounds are surprisingly good. Pickups much better than I anticipated. I was all ready to pull the trigger on either some DiMarzio's or Duncan's but will definitely be holding off on that for now. Best sustaining Floyd guitar I've ever had. It sounds really good in my Mesa Express 5:50. Now if I can just get this action/fret buzz thing resolved. I got mine on Saturday, The factory setup was dreadful, intonation was way off and the action was very high. This is my first guitar with a Floyd Rose so I may not have everything set as well as it should be, but now that the strings have stretched a bit it is a lot more stable. I play mine through a Mesa F-30.Future upgrades would be moving up to an OFR someday (I'll wait till the FR Special wears out), better pickups, adding a Roland Midi pickup, and maybe a sustainer. Yeah, I'm a prog freak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cbh5150 Posted August 4, 2011 Members Share Posted August 4, 2011 Kind of closer to a 335 I'm hoping. Update: well, it didn't take long - I already got an RA for mine and packed it back up.The neck is definitely NOT a slim-taper; I have two Giibby LPs with the slim-taper, and the Epi neck is much fatter - not baseball bat thick, but definitely 335/Dot thick. BUT, combined with the extra-flat fretboard radius to accommodate the Floyd, it just felt really clunky, and the raised part of the Floyd with the fine-tuners got in the way . Combine that with the notoriously muddy Epi pickups, and too much deal-breaking for me.I hope it works out for the rest of you, though, because it is definitely worth 399 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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