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Dumb n00B question: Why do guitarists obsess over their amplifiers?


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I'm a keyboardist of many years, not a guitarist. (I am a real softie and could never develop those calluses on my fingers. God knows I tried several times.)

 

But as I get to know guitarists and study guitar lore, I am impressed with the way guitarists place tremendous emphasis on what amplifier they are using...

 

Certainly in the VST world there are many different amp simulators for guitarists. It is apparent to me that, to the guitarist, the amplifier is every bit as important as the axe he chooses.

 

Why are amplifiers so important to the guitarist? What makes them all so different?

 

 

I know this is one of those Satchmo "If you can't hear it..." questions.... but humor me.

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Why are amplifiers so important to the guitarist? What makes them all so different?

 

 

The simple answer is that amps all sound radically different from each other, depending on the circuitry. Keyboard players, generally, just want to get a clean sound through an amp, and the kinds of amps that keyboardists prefer therefore don't sound that different from each other (unless you're talking about a Leslie or some other specialty). But the sound of the amp affects a guitarist's tone at least as much as the guitar does, because electric guitarists get our tone via creative use of distortion. Once you get into different types of distortion, the possibilities are endless. Tube amps distort differently depending on what tubes you use, how much you turn up the amp, how much you're getting preamp tube distortion vs. power tube distortion, and a host of other things. Solid state distortion sounds different from tube. What type of distortion you prefer, and how much, determines your tone and the amount of sustain you get and which overtones are most prominent... etc.

 

So yeah, there are all sorts of different amp designs, and using the same guitar through different amps can change the sound quite radically. That's why we obsess over it.

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Yes, I succumbed to the temptation of a glib answer. As usual, Lee nailed it. For keyboards (excluding Hammond organ power amps), the goal is fidelity. For a guitarist, the amp is one of many key components of the sound.

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I'd also add that guitars interact with amps from a technological standpoint. Pickups are inductive, which means their frequency response and level depends quite a bit on the amp's input stage. So when you consider the number of variables, there are a nearly infinite combination of amp and guitar possibilities, and each one has its own "sound." You can actually feel that one amp interacts with your guitar differently compared to another amp.

 

Unlike keyboards, the guitar player works with the sound generator itself - the string. As a result, there's a very tight connection between sound and performance gestures, and that's mirrored by the tight connection between the guitar and the amp.

 

Personally, I switched from guitar amps to keyboard amps back in 1968 precisely because I wanted to eliminate some of these variables, and also, because doubling on keyboards meant that some of each instrument's "attitude" was overlapping with the other instrument. This led to trying to get "my sound" before going into the amplifier. However, a guitar and amp are a pair; by removing the amp, the guitar becomes a subtly different instrument, which caused me to play it differently. For starters, my playing became much more percussive because transients were a whole different thing without amps.

 

So really, amps are an extension of the guitar, and that's why they're so important to guitar players.

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I agree with Lee and Craig's answer, but I gotta say, if you've ever spent any time over at the Keyboard Corner (the forum run by Dave Bryce), you'll see a lot of discussion about keyboard amps (or P.A.'s, which some keyboardists gig with). I'm not saying that keyboard players discuss the diversity of sounds as much as guitarists, but you might be surprised at how much they discuss 'em nonetheless. And part of the reason? Keyboards really do make a lot of different sounds, sounds far more wide-ranging in scope, texture, and frequency than guitars typically do.

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changing amps makes a huge difference, changing guitars makes a huge difference. Add fx to it and the possibilities are endless.

 

I'm like you though because I'm a modeling guy. Just give me a nice flat response pa and let the modeling unit do the rest. I don't have the money or space for 15 amps, 15 cabinets, 20 guitars, and 200 effects pedals :lol:

 

A lot of dudes just want a simple rig but there's always sacrifices. The problem with modeling is sound. The problem with real amps is cost, space, and lack of diversity. for example, someone trying to nail "that jimi sound" might want a Stratocaster and a Marshall amp. His amp will be great for that but might not be the best for "that metallica sound".

 

You also have to think about musicians in general. we're constantly changing gear just for change.

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The problem with real amps is cost, space, and lack of diversity. for example, someone trying to nail "that jimi sound" might want a Stratocaster and a Marshall amp. His amp will be great for that but might not be the best for "that metallica sound".

 

 

I've been playing a lot with the new Variax, which I really like. One thing I've found is that if you don't think the Les Paul sounds like a Les Paul, play it through a Marshall - and play a Tele through a Twin. It really drives home the point about certain iconic guitar/amp combinations.

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I'm not saying that keyboard players discuss the diversity of sounds as much as guitarists, but you might be surprised at how much they discuss 'em nonetheless. And part of the reason? Keyboards really do make a lot of different sounds, sounds far more wide-ranging in scope, texture, and frequency than guitars typically do.

 

Yes, but the issues are pretty different...with keyboards, it's "how do I accuately reproduce this sound?" With guitars, it's "how can I mess this sound up in a really pleasing way?" :)

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And to top it off, if you take two Fender SuperTwins or two MusicMan 212/65 from the same production run, they will sound different. Any identical brand tube/hand wired amps will sound different, but the new modeling amps may be a different story. I just bought a Peavey Vypyr 120 watt tube amp (using a 412 cab) that I am in love with. Now 100% solid state modeling amps should produce the same sound, but adding tubes to a modeling amp surely throws a wrench into it. But back to always chasing that golden tone. Do you think its because us guitarist deep inside have a guitarist we listened to when we were young and strive to get that sound. Now the problem, chances are we listened to them on records (or cd's) and THATS the sound we are chasing. Cant get there that easy with a guitar and an amp !!!! Need a whole rack of gear and an ssl or neve :) Or..... just use a modeling amp or plugin :)

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Yes, but the issues are pretty different...with keyboards, it's "how do I accuately reproduce this sound?" With guitars, it's "how can I mess this sound up in a really pleasing way?"
:)

 

I completely agree. That's why I instead described the choices are made due to the sheer diversity of sound. All I'm saying is some of you might be really surprised at how much keyboard players discuss amp choices. It's based on reproduction of sound, loudness, weight, stereo considerations, EQ, and so forth, not so much altering the sound, Leslie-type effects and some swirling-type effects aside. I've also found that bass players really are constantly considering amp considerations as well. Again, not the same "how can I mess this up" or alter the sound as much, but the obsessiveness is also there.

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I was going to say what Ustad said. Keyboardists obsess almost as much as guitarists do, even though admittedly there's far less variation among good clean PA gear than among guitar rigs!

 

The real answer to the OP is "because they can."

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Personally, I switched from guitar amps to keyboard amps back in 1968 precisely because I wanted to eliminate some of these variables

 

 

I didn't know they had keyboard amps in 1968. I don't remember ever seeing keyboard amps until sometime in the late 80's maybee. When I was a kid, the keyboard player always played through a big bass amp (like a Kustom or an Ampeg) so that when he hit the low notes it wouldn't blow the speaker.

 

I always thought that what makes an amp a guitar amp is that it is voiced for the frequency range suitable for the guitar. Guitars sound terrible through PAs, keyboard amps, and stereos because they are designed for the full frequency range. And full frequency instruments usually sound terrible through guitar amps.

 

Guitar amps are punchy in the midrange. They don't need to produce the lowest lows or the highest highs because guitars produce sound in the midrange.

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I didn't know they had keyboard amps in 1968.

 

 

I actually used two amps, both 50W, and each cab had dual 15" speakers. IIRC they were JBL D150F woofers. The amps were made by RMI, a division of Allen Organ; they made the Rock-Si-Chord that our keyboard player used, and when I tried the amp, that was it for me...never went back to guitar amps, except for recording.

 

100W total sounds kind of underpowered, but we filled some pretty big venues when they were cranked.

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I should mention that these days, I'm using a Bose L1 for my guitar amp. Go ahead and laugh, I don't care :) That's what I was using when the picture in my avatar was taken. When you turn it up and hold the guitar parallel to the column, you can get amazing feedback effects.

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I actually used two amps, both 50W, and each cab had dual 15" speakers. IIRC they were JBL D150F woofers. The amps were made by RMI, a division of Allen Organ; they made the Rock-Si-Chord that our keyboard player used, and when I tried the amp, that was it for me...never went back to guitar amps, except for recording.


100W total sounds kind of underpowered, but we filled some pretty big venues when they were cranked.

 

 

My first keyboard was a Univox copy of the RMI Electra Piano. At the time I thought they were pretty cheesy and useless (maybe because I didn't have a proper amp for it) I just ran it through my cheap stereo. Now it's probably one of my favorite keyboard sounds of all time. I hear it in a lot of great recordings from that era like Billy Preston with the Rolling Stones and Doctor John and Aerosmith and a lot of other cool stuff.

 

According to Wikipedia: "The prototype Rock-Si-Chord gave the Philadelphia psychedelic rock band The Mandrake Memorial their signature sound.":cool: Said it retailed for for $4695. That was a lot of money back then. My Univox copy was only $200 used.

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I was in a band with two guitarists who each had a Marshall 4x12. Do you really need those in pubs and small venues? So what I'm saying is, there's the vanity/ego thing as well. An equivalent thing for a drummer would be using a second kick drum instead of just using a double pedal.

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^^^ When I first started playing in bands in the earley 70's I found a 50W head and at least a pair of 12'S

was what I needed to compete with the drummers I worked with. They really played the drums hard.

A 30w wouldnt get me the cleans I needed for allot of the stuff we played.

Main thing is we didnt have allot of gizmos to drive and shape our sound. It all came from the amp and speakers.

If you wanted a driven tone you cranked the amp.

 

The selection of speakers werent all that wide ranging either. You'd be luckey if you coul get some JBL's or Altecs

that had a higher SPL, otherwise you were stuck with inefficiant speakers that cut the volume way down and broke up easily.

 

Today you have thousands of gizmos that imatate driven amps. Amps really dont need to produce a good driven tone, they simply

need to have a good clean tone and all the sounds can come from crutch boxes. Many amps started changing too. Preamp gain, master

volume and switchable channels were something many did to mod amps. Now you find those mods as standard on most new amps, and

now you have effects and modeling built in too that are very affordable.

 

I'd say the reason why guitarists are on a constant quest for tones is because the music he playes requires it

If you play in a cover band and "want" to capture all the different tones of others you really have to know how to manipulate

your sound to get a reasonable facsimilie. For a keyboard player its much simpler. He simply presses a button and selects what he needs.

Theres some velocity and gain involved, but he can use a flat responce amp in most cases.

 

A guitarist can and should develop his own tones and use them even when playing cover music instead of trying to be everything to everybody.

If you saw say Clapton play cover tunes, you wouldnt expect him to adjust his tone and instrument to match the original recording. You'd

much more likely have him adjust the arrangement to match his signature tone.

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Today you have thousands of gizmos that imatate driven amps. Amps really dont need to produce a good driven tone, they simply

need to have a good clean tone and all the sounds can come from crutch boxes.

 

But it still doesn't sound like a driven amp, really. I've heard good tones from boxes, but I still need to get my basic sound from a tube amp, as I've never heard a box that genuinely sounds and responds like an overdriven tube amp.

 

And this is exactly the kind of thing guitarists obsess about, ras. :D

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