Members pigman Posted January 31, 2012 Members Share Posted January 31, 2012 Going ampless is never a problem. My SS amp is basically a monitor with a DI out, already. Joining a band? Now, that's a problem! So, I made them digital, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MyNameIsMok... Posted January 31, 2012 Members Share Posted January 31, 2012 I tried to play direct though my powered wedge and a digital modeler and the experience was so flat it convinced me to go back to tubes. I'm building a stack as we speak... ...but I love Animals as Leaders and their stage is empty save Axe-FX and wedges. And they sound great. I can appreciate things others do I don't want to do...like going to Vegas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MyNameIsMok... Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 I saw Robert Plant last year. Buddy Miller did have a pair of Swarts on stage, mic'd, but no stacks. Yes had a pair of Line 6 combos and Styx had a wall of fake Marshalls. No real stacks anywhere. PA systems have made them irrelevant, methinks. EG Backline companies are still making dough renting out stacks, so I would say no. The festival circut is alive and well (crosses fingers for 2012 season to crank up). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 Edit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NinjaModder Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 I spent money on my beautiful Twin Reverb so people could bask in its glory! So it would be a deal killer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GilmourD Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 Edit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marko Posted February 1, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 I spent money on my beautiful Twin Reverb so people could bask in its glory! So it would be a deal killer! I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 If "sounding like a rock band" means the same to you as it does to most other people, i.e. LOUD, then you would be sitting at home on a Friday night Alot of times other quieter bands would get the gig. It doesn't have to blow your head off to sound like a rock band. We do a lot of out door venues, Being Florida and all, that have to put up with local sound ordinances that simply get shut down or fined if the band is too loud. No one that has ever come and seen our band has ever complained we were to quiet. The key with this type of system is that you have absolute control over the volume and it is always crystal clear. One thing about sound quality is that a crappier sounding band is always perceived as a louder band, so a clear band can always get away with being Alot louder than the crappy sounding band in reality. And the absolute key to the whole thing is the drums. I don't know why electric drums would be a deal breaker for you. T A band without them can only play as quietly as their drummer plays, and if you have something against a kit that sounds not only sonically perfect, every time, but can dial in dozens and dozens of different sounds or kits, play as loud or quietly as each venue demands, then I would say electric drums aren't for you. I can tell you, no manager, or club owner, or venue, or festival organizer has EVER said, we don't want that band, they use electric drums. No patron, friend or fan has EVER commented or disapproved of them or left a bar because of it. The only people I have ever heard comment on it are traditionalist musicians, and they mostly comment on how they look, not how they sound. Image is not as important in the Club scene as it wax 20 years ago. Nobody cares. The only time it has ever been an issue is when we your or do supporting shows with major artist and in the few cases where they even cares, our drummer just went ahead and used his badass acoustic set that he never plays much anymore. The overwhelming outcome of our experience with using electric drums as a band has been to turn skeptics into believers. It's hard to argue with something you have complete volume and sound control over and sound awesome every single time you use them. I live in the Tampa area too. We probably play some of the same places. I don't sit home on weekends unless I want to. I'm not talking about running people out of the place with a wall of noise, but I like decent stage volume. We have a pretty loud drummer and I like that. We play pretty loud, but our sound is very clean, and I think that's important. We have a hard driving, double kicking drummer and that's where a lot of the energy comes from. He has an electronic kit we use for rehearsal, and it's not the same and nowhere near as much fun. He played it at one place that was volume sensitive, and we heard pretty overwhelmingly from our regulars that without the real drums, we're not the same band. I've heard bands that were stupid loud and all you could hear was a wall of distorted noise. We're not one of them, but we are a rock band and want to sound like one. People that come to see us like it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Northstar Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 I'd have my amp mic'd off-stage in an iso cab if that would make them happy. Besides that, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sammyreynolds01 Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 Nope no deal breaker for me. Like some have said most bands now are using in ears and most cabs are dummies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MyNameIsMok... Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 Nope no deal breaker for me. Like some have said most bands now are using in ears and most cabs are dummies. And most still have a backline rig. Fact. (we're still talking rock&roll right? good) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LesPaulFetish Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 Guitar -> cable -> Axe-FX -> win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 Yep - just get an AxeFX and be done with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sammyreynolds01 Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 And most still have a backline rig. Fact. (we're still talking rock&roll right? good) Most bands are still using tube amps but alot of them are not running DI's into the PA's, like I said most bands with walls of cabs are dummies unless your Yngwie. I know some session guys in Nashville when they play live, they will play with some sort of modeler in a club so they won't have to haul their amps. But at the end of the day is all preference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaleH Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 Sure, Less {censored} to worry about. Wireless with a bluetooth in year monitor. Walk out do your thing and walk off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alo33 Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 I would not consider it. The guitar, tube amp and speaker are all one instrument. I hope that this is just the whim of old guys with bad backs and tinitus and not an absolute in the future of live music. It may work out well in larger venues with good sound systems being mixed by someone familiar with the music. However, in the average bumpkin bar it rarely amounts to more than a fizzy guitar fighting its way through a farty low end and a very confused sound person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mesa/Kramer Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 I want to hear the sound of my amp hitting me in the back when i play. It's just not the same feel and inspiration while playing with in ear monitors. This might be a good half way point http://www.avatarspeakers.com/Pro%20Monitors.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members =JL= Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 I worked with Jerry Donahue last year, small pedalboard > speaker simulator > PA. Simple, all analogue, and great-sounding. I have no problem with digital, but have had no success getting the "feel" right for more rootsy, organic sounding styles. Even for more my rock-oriented stuff, my twin half-stacks are set pretty clean and used as classy sounding monitors - they're little more than props really. I'm amazed that people still believe all those amps at a big gig are actually doing something. You could not possibly stand in front of some of those rigs night after night if they were active. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wulver Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 I worked with Jerry Donahue last year, small pedalboard > speaker simulator > PA. Simple, all analogue, and great-sounding. I have no problem with digital, but have had no success getting the "feel" right for more rootsy, organic sounding styles. Even for more my rock-oriented stuff, my twin half-stacks are set pretty clean and used as classy sounding monitors - they're little more than props really. I'm amazed that people still believe all those amps at a big gig are actually doing something. You could not possibly stand in front of some of those rigs night after night if they were active. This is basically my rig as well, Tech 21 Blonde as a preamp on the pedalboard going right into the PA. I haven't desired an actual amp in years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Faber Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 It would be interesting to try and I'd like to give it a go. I can see how this can simplify things a lot, prevent volume wars etc. On the other hand my gut feeling is that I would miss the direct interaction with an amp/speaker. As already stated guitar + amp is one instrument. But it's worth a shot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cephus Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 There seems to be this undercurrent of "if you cant deal with going direct, then you suck." Truth is, it would bother me. I guess I do suck. Over the years, I have managed to get my volume under control and I know that exact threshhold of warm, wet volume that I need to get the sound I like. It encourages me and makes me play better. I have played outside gigs or with too much stage volume where I couldn't acheive that sweet spot and I know it sucks. They were not fun gigs. I know what i like and I know where to get it. I know that it is 100% possible that a band could play in this laboratory environment and sound completely authentic in any genre or venue. I know that there are genres where it wouldn't really matter that much whether it sounded good as long as it wasn't loud. But the bell curve of this is a bunch of people playing with overly processed tones that sound good in your bedroom but like {censored} in the club and a mix that is completely homogenous and democratic giving the distinct impression of karaoke. If choose to do it, then you better be sure that you and the other constituents are doing it right. Good luck and godspeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marko Posted February 1, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 ... I know that it is 100% possible that a band could play in this laboratory environment and sound completely authentic in any genre or venue. I know that there are genres where it wouldn't really matter that much whether it sounded good as long as it wasn't loud. But the bell curve of this is a bunch of people playing with overly processed tones that sound good in your bedroom but like {censored} in the club and a mix that is completely homogenous and democratic giving the distinct impression of karaoke. Wow... a guitarist switching from a cab to a processor/wedge causes all that, huh? If choose to do it, then you better be sure that you and the other constituents are doing it right. Good luck and godspeed. Wow... a guitarist switching from a cab to a processor/wedge causes all that, huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alo33 Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 Provided the sound person is able to get good mix together this way, I'm still not sure I'd want to see a live band that sounded like a home stereo system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Special J Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 There seems to be 2 different debates going on here, one being in-ear monitoring and the other going ampless which are not synonymous. The OP is talking about using wedges to monitor a digital, direct to PA signal. I've been using in-ear monitors along with tube amps on stage for quite a while very successfully. I do production for 3-4 concerts a week on average. It ranges from local and regional acts to big nationals with the core business being "B and C" level nationals in theaters and festivals. I'm here to tell you that tube amps are still king. Not a rider goes by that isn't requesting a Fender, Marshall, Vox or Mesa tube amp. I'm not saying that NOBODY is using modellers, but they're pretty few and far between on the professional side of things. MANY more bands are now requesting in-ear monitors, or else just carrying them themselves. In-ears coupled with digital consoles gives a much more consistent sound night after night, and when used correctly cause much less ear fatigue. As for those stating that everybody uses dummy cabs or amps on stage these days, you're kidding yourselves. Besides a few 80's throwbacks, I hardly ever see dummy cabs on stage anymore. Fuel costs are high and unused gear is rarely going to go on the truck. If there's a half-stack on stage, it's probably getting used. Hey, whatever makes you play better and enjoy yourself is what you should do. But going from the extreme of stupid loud amps on stage to the extreme of no amps on stage is not the way to go IMO. And again, I'm a sound guy, the guy you all ASSume is on a power trip and going to tell you to turn down. The thing that the OP didn't mention (unless I missed it) is how is the FOH sound going to be handled? What kind of system are you going through? Does the band own its own, or are they relying on whatever is at the club? Do they have their own professional sound engineer, or are you relying on the club owner's drunk, otherwise jobless cousin to make sure your AxeFX is being heard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marko Posted February 1, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 ... The thing that the OP didn't mention (unless I missed it) is how is the FOH sound going to be handled? What kind of system are you going through? Does the band own its own, or are they relying on whatever is at the club? Do they have their own professional sound engineer, or are you relying on the club owner's drunk, otherwise jobless cousin to make sure your AxeFX is being heard? This will be my first time mixing from stage, which is one reason I'd like to get a good stage mix, and keep the variables to a minimum. There Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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