Members Marko Posted January 31, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 31, 2012 Well, this has turned out to be a very positive and encouraging thread. I just want everyone in the band to have fun, yet be successful. Maybe if y Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sleewell Posted January 31, 2012 Members Share Posted January 31, 2012 amps sound way different when they are not pushing air through a guitar speaker. i guess the pros would be lower stage volume and being able to listen better to what is going on better but if your guitar sounds like crap i dunno if that is worth it. i dont have enough money for a snax but when i tried to go direct from my rp1000 to the pa it sounded really bad. guitar speakers are much different than pa speakers. i guess at the end of the day no one likes going to a bar and just have that obnoxiously loud annoying band. but there is a middle ground. small combos dont have to be annoyingly loud. its all about knowing your venue and crowd. certain places you can get away with melting faces and some places you need to be more of the background music. playing music in front of people > sitting on the couch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaveAronow Posted January 31, 2012 Members Share Posted January 31, 2012 I did over 250 shows last year with a band that has zero amps on stage. The guitarists use processors, mostly line 6 x3 live, bass uses sansamp tech 21 bass driver, and the drummer uses electronic kit. We do have a kickass monitor system though. Each guy can have anything he wants in his mix, eq'rd, whatever effects, whatever volume, etc. Sure the band is good as far as players go, we have well over 100 years collective gigging under our belts between the four of us. Lots of working bands play fine so what? We play well together as any band that plays this much together should But what really sets this band apart is the overall sound of the band. We can blow your head off with volume both out front or on stage, but we have gotten and kept gigs also by our ability to play much quieter on stage and consequently out front than other full bands in our area. Thing about doing it this way, is that there is absolutely no competition between stage volume and p.a. Volume. What front of house hears is almost pure p.a. Mix and virtually no stage volume. Not to mention lugging around amps or cabs. We are not opposed to using amps/cabs, but we have this system so dialed in that we see doing anything else as going backwards. I've played non stop in bands for a living since 1980. Been in tons of bands big and small, jammed with hundreds of musicians, played on maybe 1000 stages. This is the best sounding band I have ever been in both on stage and out front.. It's not just me that thinks that. This band in this configuration has never played a gig yet where we weren't told by patrons, bar owners, etc that didn't tell us it was the best sounding band they have ever had. I think a significant part of that is the electronic drums too. The band sound is like a big loud crystal clear stereo cranking your favorite toons. And when a band sounds this good, most people don't know or care about the details why. They just automatically associate you with being a great band without thought about it must be the way they are set up that makes them sound so good. Most people don't know why or care. They just think you are good which leads to a bigger following wick leads directly to more gigs and more money. Not to mention the added benefit that is sounds great for us too! I know I personally play better, or at least get into it more when it sounds great to me than when it doesn't. I am so spoiled I am contantly disappointed when I sit in with other bands.,they aJlo sound like all the other bands I have ever played in, which ranges from pure shot to somewhat decent, but none of them approach the,quality of sound that we are achieving now. It just makes it really fun to go to work when it sounds this good on stage and out front. So not only would it not be a deal breaker, it is highly recommended. The key though, it having a killer monitor system including lots of power, great monitors and a great board, etc. Without that I'd be lugging my amps again. But with it I will personally never go back when given a choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted January 31, 2012 Members Share Posted January 31, 2012 It would depend, but I'd probably try it. I run my Egnater direct and it will run that way without a speaker cabinet, so I would think I could get pretty close to my sound. As long as the PA would support individual mixes for everybody and was decent quality I would think it could work. No real drums would be a deal breaker for me though. I think people are getting a little carried away with this low volume stuff though. If you're a rock band, a certain amount of volume is to be expected and required. I don't think I'd be happy in a band where sounding like a rock band was discouraged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marko Posted January 31, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 31, 2012 I did over 250 shows last year with a band that has zero amps on stage. The guitarists use processors, mostly line 6 x3 live, bass uses sansamp tech 21 bass driver, and the drummer uses electronic kit. We do have a kickass monitor system though. Each guy can have anything he wants in his mix, eq'rd, whatever effects, whatever volume, etc. Sure the band is good as far as players go, we have well over 100 years collective gigging under our belts between the four of us. Lots of working bands play fine so what? We play well together as any band that plays this much together should But what really sets this band apart is the overall sound of the band. We can blow your head off with volume both out front or on stage, but we have gotten and kept gigs also by our ability to play much quieter on stage and consequently out front than other full bands in our area. Thing about doing it this way, is that there is absolutely no competition between stage volume and p.a. Volume. What front of house hears is almost pure p.a. Mix and virtually no stage volume. Not to mention lugging around amps or cabs. We are not opposed to using amps/cabs, but we have this system so dialed in that we see doing anything else as going backwards. I've played non stop in bands for a living since 1980. Been in tons of bands big and small, jammed with hundreds of musicians, played on maybe 1000 stages. This is the best sounding band I have ever been in both on stage and out front.. It's not just me that thinks that. This band in this configuration has never played a gig yet where we weren't told by patrons, bar owners, etc that didn't tell us it was the best sounding band they have ever had. I think a significant part of that is the electronic drums too. The band sound is like a big loud crystal clear stereo cranking your favorite toons. So not only would it not be a deal breaker, it is highly recommended. The key though, it having a killer monitor system including lots of power, great monitors and a great board, etc. Without that I'd be lugging my amps again. But with it I will personally never go back when given a choice. Awesome post. We will be using an electonic drum kit, as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hubert Stumblin Posted January 31, 2012 Members Share Posted January 31, 2012 I'd say if you have whatever pedals you use going into a nice tube pre-amp, then what comes out and into the PA should sound pretty good. Then it all depends on how well the sound guy mixes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marko Posted January 31, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 31, 2012 It would depend, but I'd probably try it. I run my Egnater direct and it will run that way without a speaker cabinet, so I would think I could get pretty close to my sound. As long as the PA would support individual mixes for everybody and was decent quality I would think it could work. No real drums would be a deal breaker for me though. I think people are getting a little carried away with this low volume stuff though. If you're a rock band, a certain amount of volume is to be expected and required. I don't think I'd be happy in a band where sounding like a rock band was discouraged. This band happens to have a frontman-gone-drummer (still sings on a headset mic), and a new guy who's a drummer-gone-frontman, and also plays rhythm guitar, so they Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaveAronow Posted January 31, 2012 Members Share Posted January 31, 2012 It would depend, but I'd probably try it. I run my Egnater direct and it will run that way without a speaker cabinet, so I would think I could get pretty close to my sound. As long as the PA would support individual mixes for everybody and was decent quality I would think it could work. No real drums would be a deal breaker for me though. I think people are getting a little carried away with this low volume stuff though. If you're a rock band, a certain amount of volume is to be expected and required. I don't think I'd be happy in a band where sounding like a rock band was discouraged. If "sounding like a rock band" means the same to you as it does to most other people, i.e. LOUD, then you would be sitting at home on a Friday night Alot of times other quieter bands would get the gig. It doesn't have to blow your head off to sound like a rock band. We do a lot of out door venues, Being Florida and all, that have to put up with local sound ordinances that simply get shut down or fined if the band is too loud. No one that has ever come and seen our band has ever complained we were to quiet. The key with this type of system is that you have absolute control over the volume and it is always crystal clear. One thing about sound quality is that a crappier sounding band is always perceived as a louder band, so a clear band can always get away with being Alot louder than the crappy sounding band in reality. And the absolute key to the whole thing is the drums. I don't know why electric drums would be a deal breaker for you. T A band without them can only play as quietly as their drummer plays, and if you have something against a kit that sounds not only sonically perfect, every time, but can dial in dozens and dozens of different sounds or kits, play as loud or quietly as each venue demands, then I would say electric drums aren't for you. I can tell you, no manager, or club owner, or venue, or festival organizer has EVER said, we don't want that band, they use electric drums. No patron, friend or fan has EVER commented or disapproved of them or left a bar because of it. The only people I have ever heard comment on it are traditionalist musicians, and they mostly comment on how they look, not how they sound. Image is not as important in the Club scene as it wax 20 years ago. Nobody cares. The only time it has ever been an issue is when we your or do supporting shows with major artist and in the few cases where they even cares, our drummer just went ahead and used his badass acoustic set that he never plays much anymore. The overwhelming outcome of our experience with using electric drums as a band has been to turn skeptics into believers. It's hard to argue with something you have complete volume and sound control over and sound awesome every single time you use them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Flogger59 Posted January 31, 2012 Members Share Posted January 31, 2012 I have a roomful of amps in the basement (literally). I love them. I also have a Yamaha DG1000, a PromixO1 and powered Renkus-Heinz speakers. I also love them. I'm good to go either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rick 381 Posted January 31, 2012 Members Share Posted January 31, 2012 I know of one band touring nationally that has empty boxes on stage. They play through Tonelabs DI'd into the PA. Their amps are stage props. Much better for your hearing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jimash Posted January 31, 2012 Members Share Posted January 31, 2012 I'd do it . Couple pedals and a preamp, I'd be ok. Maybe get a POD o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tedmich Posted January 31, 2012 Members Share Posted January 31, 2012 many bands use stage prop stacks; the roadies love them! why not go in ear monitoring and a bunch of Radial J48's or JDV's? Lots more room to move! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ProToneThinline Posted January 31, 2012 Members Share Posted January 31, 2012 But Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted January 31, 2012 Members Share Posted January 31, 2012 I love the tone of my Tech 21 Oxford. If I got to use that, I don't need no stinkin' amps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members _pete_ Posted January 31, 2012 Members Share Posted January 31, 2012 I already do use a rig like this and love it. For the church gig I'm doing (long story) I use a Digitech RP1000 XLR'd to the FOH and have a small powered wedge (Kustom KPC12MP). I got the RP1000 used for $199 and the wedge was $99 new. So for $300 I have a rig that I can carry easily and it really sounds great. Using the RP is all about selecting the right cab sims and EQ'ing the presets well. My main rig is a GSP1101 into a pair of full range speakers. I usually set them up as a backline but it would be very simple to use them as wedges also. My stage sound is crystal clear and I can hear everything else. The sound to the FOH is always the same as what I hear. I would never go back to micing a cab. Those days are over. Oh, I went to see Dave Aronow's band a while back and he speaks the truth. They sound great. You would never know by listening that they run through all digital stuff. Digital and modeling has come a long, long way in the last few years. Guitarist need to stop being so close minded and try it out. Yeah it's a little different, but it's also a lot better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members joecool1963 Posted January 31, 2012 Members Share Posted January 31, 2012 POD HD500.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marko Posted January 31, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 31, 2012 I told my buddy/band member about the no-amp-on-stage idea, and I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marko Posted January 31, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 31, 2012 It Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bloolight Posted January 31, 2012 Members Share Posted January 31, 2012 I get all the arguments in favor of DI sound for bands...I understand the benefits, and I certainly get how a loud, crappy band with massive amps can clear a room in a heartbeat. That being said, I prefer to play with my Deluxe Reverb on stage with me. My experience with modeling in live situations, both as a player and as an audience member, has never been great in the small venue situations we normally play. When stage volume is done right (which it is very, very rarely) it is a wonderful thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted January 31, 2012 Members Share Posted January 31, 2012 Don't many touring bands play with little to no stage volume these days? [video=youtube;iZCkm7j9KlU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZCkm7j9KlU Yeah, they have 3 full stacks, then you read this and you find out everybody is wearing an in-ear monitor and that they use iso cabs too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members treedroppings Posted January 31, 2012 Members Share Posted January 31, 2012 I'm plugging into a karaoke after a long bicycle ride with my gig bag on my back, so yeah I would do it no problem(it would be nicer). An eq and a good fuzz pedal makes it tolerable IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Elias Graves Posted January 31, 2012 Members Share Posted January 31, 2012 I love the tone of my Tech 21 Oxford. If I got to use that, I don't need no stinkin' amps. I have a friend who runs a Tech 21 Blonde, a couple of effects pedals and into the PA. He sounds killer every night. His whole rig consists of a guitar case and a duffel bag. EG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarman3001 Posted January 31, 2012 Members Share Posted January 31, 2012 Yeah, they have 3 full stacks, then you read this and you find out everybody is wearing an in-ear monitor and that they use iso cabs too. Yeah but it also says that they usually crank their stage volumes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Elias Graves Posted January 31, 2012 Members Share Posted January 31, 2012 Yeah, they have 3 full stacks, then you read this and you find out everybody is wearing an in-ear monitor and that they use iso cabs too. I saw Robert Plant last year. Buddy Miller did have a pair of Swarts on stage, mic'd, but no stacks. Yes had a pair of Line 6 combos and Styx had a wall of fake Marshalls. No real stacks anywhere. PA systems have made them irrelevant, methinks. EG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted January 31, 2012 Members Share Posted January 31, 2012 Yeah but it also says that they usually crank their stage volumes. 105 dB isn't loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.