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A word about "Chinese" guitars...


Harry7139
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There is no reason why a Chinese company cannot make a great electric guitar. I have played several. There is no magic fairy dust in American factories that somehow works it's way into their guitars.

 

I bought a guitar called Offria one time, he is an American designer and has an import line. It was an LP style guitar and it cost about $200. I wasn't expecting much. The guitar was MUCH better than I expected. not a veneer top either, a SOLID 1/2" graduated maple top. Pickups weren't great, but I was really surprised at the quality. I sold it later and bought an Epiphone Pro FX, another high quality guitar from China.

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I may be missing something here but aside from it saying "Gibsun" on the headstock, how is this any different than buying a Burny, Greco, Tokai, Orville or any other Asian knockoff?

 

That and some missed features. I get your point though. Nothing. Those are the same thing ripped off but with a new name. It isn't really any better. If someone steals my work, they better put my name on it!

 

It's a shame they do put gibson on the thing. Might be tempting without that.

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That and some missed features. I get your point though. Nothing. Those are the same thing ripped off but with a new name. It isn't really any better. If someone steals my work, they better put my name on it!


It's a shame they do put gibson on the thing. Might be tempting without that.

 

It is a whole level better if they're not claiming to be the real deal. How can you say there's no difference?

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As an artist and designer myself, if someone rips off my work I don't care whose name is on it, I'm going to be pissed (I saw one of my pieces redone in Times Square recently, OH {censored} I WAS PISSED some European Co who I gave a lecture to one of their designers once stole my idea and work and I bet they got 200k for it, when I don't get diddly). I am going to be more pissed off if they don't use my name. No credit. I understand your point don't get me wrong, but it goes both ways.

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I may be missing something here but aside from it saying "Gibsun" on the headstock, how is this any different than buying a Burny, Greco, Tokai, Orville or any other Asian knockoff?

 

Gibson never protected it's name in Japan. And those guitars were never sold in america....it's not the japanese people's fault that westerners want those guitars because they were built better than american made originals.

 

Plus the names Greco, Tokai, and Burny are not Gibson. I would think that would be pretty obvious. Sure they copy the body shape and headstock perfectly, but only an illiterate idiot would confuse any of those three brands for a real gibson. The chinese fakes? Not the same...the script is nearly identical.

 

And as deadbeat mentioned....Orvilles ARE gibsons. So there is absolutely no issue there.

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It's never "off topic"......people may not want to think about it, and what it all means.....and they may whine and complain when it's brought up...."it's just a guitar forum...go to the political forum...blah blah blah..".....but the reality is, this IS about guitars.


It's not like we were talking about the best flanger pedal, and someone came in and starting talking about the abuse of coffee workers in central america.


With ANY product, there is always going to be an aspect that links to political and moral issues. And the results of that DO impact peoples lives directly. And this thread in this kind of thread especially.....the political side of it just can't be ignored. If some people don't like the political side of the issue, maybe they should just try to ignore threads like this all together. But they are most certainly not off topic.

 

Here, here! In fact, quite often it is more relevant to the true topic.

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As an artist and designer myself, if someone rips off my work I don't care whose name is on it, I'm going to be pissed (I saw one of my pieces redone in Times Square recently, OH {censored} I WAS PISSED some European Co who I gave a lecture to one of their designers once stole my idea and work and I bet they got 200k for it, when I don't get diddly). I am going to be more pissed off if they don't use my name. No credit. I understand your point don't get me wrong, but it goes both ways.

 

I think you better start trying to get over that. Or sue. Intellectual "property" is a rapidly dying concept. The ability to disseminate information and ideas rapidly is causing art to fully move into the public domain.

 

I for one, think that it's great. People and mostly corporations...can try to fight it all they want, and keep it in "packages" that can be consumed for profit....but it's a battle they will eventually lose. Or at the very least...end up with no market cause in the end there will be enough free art out there to kill any profit.

 

It's the same with design. Why should Gibson or Fender have a life time right to those shapes? Shapes which are VASTLY over rated as being "original" anyway. They are just scaled down acoustic shapes with cut aways. Whoopty Doo! I mean should every single acoustic guitar maker have to pay money to whoever it was who made the traditional acoustic guitar shape? Give me a break.

 

I do think a line is crossed when a name is placed on a headstock in order to fool someone into thinking it's something it's not. But as long as the name is different, then it should be the law of competition. If I can make the same thing you can, better than you, to higher quality...then let's let the market decide who's will be successful. Even if you were the one who came up with it in the first place.

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Gibson never protected it's name in Japan. And those guitars were never sold in america....it's not the japanese people's fault that westerners want those guitars because they were built better than american made originals.


Plus the names Greco, Tokai, and Burny are not Gibson. I would think that would be pretty obvious. Sure they copy the body shape and headstock perfectly, but only an illiterate idiot would confuse any of those three brands for a real gibson. The chinese fakes? Not the same...the script is nearly identical.


And as deadbeat mentioned....Orvilles ARE gibsons. So there is absolutely no issue there.

 

Pardon my ignorance for not knowing Orville was an offshoot of Gibson. Aside from that, you've basically proven my point though. The name might be different and they might not call it a "Les Paul" or "Stratocaster" but if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck...yadda yadda yadda. It's essentially the same thing with a different name but when someone buys a Tokai or Burny they get applauded, when they buy a "Gibsun" they get booed. As long as the person doesn't sell it with the intent of defrauding someone I don't see what the big deal is.

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There is no reason why a Chinese company cannot make a great electric guitar. I have played several. There is no magic fairy dust in American factories that somehow works it's way into their guitars.


I bought a guitar called Offria one time, he is an American designer and has an import line. It was an LP style guitar and it cost about $200. I wasn't expecting much. The guitar was MUCH better than I expected. not a veneer top either, a SOLID 1/2" graduated maple top. Pickups weren't great, but I was really surprised at the quality. I sold it later and bought an Epiphone Pro FX, another high quality guitar from China.

 

But that's not the point. The point was

 

stock-vector-look-at-me-background-60671

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There is no reason why a Chinese company cannot make a great electric guitar. I have played several.
There is no magic fairy dust in American factories that somehow works it's way into their guitars.

 

To read some of the posts here, though, some think there is. As in, it's special wood, cut and toned special and my favourite; no one can copy those pickups.

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Pardon my ignorance for not knowing Orville was an offshoot of Gibson. Aside from that, you've basically proven my point though. The name might be different and they might not call it a "Les Paul" or "Stratocaster" but if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck...yadda yadda yadda. It's essentially the same thing with a
different name
but when someone buys a Tokai or Burny they get applauded, when they buy a "Gibsun" they get booed. As long as the person doesn't sell it with the intent of defrauding someone I don't see what the big deal is.

 

Key words in bold.

 

Look......I think it's a personal opinion in many ways. My line to cross is in the name itself. That's why I think the Japanese builders are different. Gibsun is not a different name than gibson...as I'm pretty sure gibson has at times used an open O in there name. There have been a variety of various "Gibson" shapes to their letters. Changing one of them is totally different than having a completely different name like Tokai or Greco. NOBODY would be fooled at a store by a Tokai or Greco. But many people could be by the chinese fakes.

 

I think the fact that people don't criticize the Japanese companies as much proves MY point.

 

In the end all these "laws" corporations have for "protecting" their intellectual property...were written BY THEM to protect their profits. It's a game. China says "{censored} you" to the game and the rules written by rich americans. Personally I don't have a huge problem with that, even though I wouldn't buy those products, for other reasons like chinese labor practices, and the name thing being a con.

 

America changes it's rules all the time when it is convenient for them. Just look at the softwood lumber dispute with canada. I find it kind of a joke when they try to invoke some kind of moral "right" in other cases.

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So the bottom line is that buying a Japanese duplicate of a Les Paul is ok but buying a Chinese duplicate of a Les Paul isn't. Makes perfect sense.

 

If that is what you think then yeah.

 

But I suspect what's really going on here is you ignoring the responses to you and just harping over and over on the same point...thinking that your conclusion, that buying both are the same thing, has been validated. When it hasn't. Because YOU haven't proven how buying a guitar that doesn't say gibson is the same as buying one that does say gibson.

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If that is what you think then yeah.


But I suspect what's really going on here is you ignoring the responses to you and just harping over and over on the same point...thinking that your conclusion, that buying both are the same thing, has been validated. When it hasn't. Because YOU haven't proven how buying a guitar that doesn't say gibson is the same as buying one that does say gibson.

 

It is the same though. They're both not real Gibson's.

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There's a night-and-day difference between a copy of a design and a counterfeit. In one case, the manufacturer takes accountability for their product because they want to enhance their brand. On the other hand, the brand is stolen and the manufacturers sneak them onto the market, so they don't care about anything other than the look.

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It is the same though. They're both not real Gibson's.

Chunk - imagine you want to start making doorstops. You check the market and find that the best one has all of the design features that people want. You decide to do a pretty similar one, but with your branding and a few stylistic changes. Plus yours is made of less expensive material. You do all of the research to ensure that you won't infringe any patents and you go into production. You're doing well until conterfeits of the best one flood your market. RIP Chunk Doorstops.

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My criticism is harsh but honest from my perspective.


I consider musicians who buy fakes at best second class musicians.

.

So Slash is second class. With all respect STFU. My criticism is harsh but honest from my perspective also.

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