$10 vs $15 for a CD

[ihateyouguys]

 

How about pricing your CD at $10 because it's the right thing to do for your fans, the people who actually care enough to buy your CD. Forget all the price points and "Price elasticity of demand", how 'bout giving the people who like your music a square deal 'cause it's the right thing to do.

 

 

Because it costs money to produce a CD, and if they want to have a better product for their next cd (or for there even to be a next CD) they need to have enough money to pay for it.

 

That's why there needs to be a music BIZ forum - too many musicians end up on the kumbaya bandwagon thinking "if we make music we love everything will take care of itself" and then wonder why they're constantly struggling on the money front - and some of them ultimately have to give up on what they wanted to do because they failed to take real world issues into account.

[daddymack]

 

Because it costs money to produce a CD, and if they want to have a better product for their next cd (or for there even to be a next CD) they need to have enough money to pay for it. That's why there needs to be a music BIZ forum - too many musicians end up on the kumbaya bandwagon thinking "if we make music we love everything will take care of itself" and then wonder why they're constantly struggling on the money front - and some of them ultimately have to give up on what they wanted to do because they failed to take real world issues into account.

 

yep, the reality of the Music Biz is its a business, and businesses that fail to recoup their costs, regardless of how well intentioned, ultimately fail. If the costs incurred in the production and marketing of your product allow you to sell it at a 'popular' price-point, then there you go. If you price your product below market and below cost, then that is not good business; allowing for the free 'promotional' copies you will give way to friends, family, co-workers and club owners...how many do you actually sell?

We have been skating on essentially the same CD for four years, and sales have slowed, but our production costs were basically nothing for the recording (done live with a pro soundman at a top LA club) and we have our own high speed burning system, and I can produce the packaging, etc for about $1 a unit...so we have sold the same CD at our shows for $10...always announcing that the price is special for that particular show...and we have moved about 800-1000 over the years with no real effort. We've retained a % for the next recording, which we never seem to get around to...

[The*Ataris]

 

If you don't value your work, why should anyone else?

 

 

What does that mean?

 

Let's say you sell one CD for $10 and I sell two CD's for $5 a piece, which scenario is more advantageous for the independent musician? Either way, we have $10 in our respective hands, but by lowering the price, my music is now being heard by twice as many people...which is kind of what we're going for, right? Am I off-base?

 

I have this argument at work all the time. It costs $65 to play my golf course on the weekends and our tee sheet is generally half full. I feel the price point is absurd given the lack of demand and alienates a good percentage of our potential costumers; our owner doesn't want to "cheapen" our product by lowering the rate. I firmly believe that the value of a given product is not determined by its price--the value of a product is determined by its quality. It's price should be set at a rate that is not only reasonably profitable, but representative of its demand. If we can fill up 75% of our tee sheet by lowering the entry rate to $50, we're making more money--period. In return, our customers recognize the "value" of our product in relation to its price and feel more inclined to return. Seems pretty simple to me...

[wagdog]

 

Because it costs money to produce a CD, and if they want to have a better product for their next cd (or for there even to be a next CD) they need to have enough money to pay for it. That's why there needs to be a music BIZ forum - too many musicians end up on the kumbaya bandwagon thinking "if we make music we love everything will take care of itself" and then wonder why they're constantly struggling on the money front - and some of them ultimately have to give up on what they wanted to do because they failed to take real world issues into account.

 

 

Because it costs $9 to produce a CD right, so you'll be making a buck, right?

 

No, because it costs $1 - $2 to produce a CD and at $10 a whack you're basically printing money.

 

So there is no need to gouge YOUR fans for $15 or $20 ($20 for a noname CD?).

[Ides of March]

 

Wow, I would never pay $15 for a cd-not even signed bands. I can see $10 but I think people are better off selling them for $5 or giving them away. I think you have to really honestly ask yourself the following question. Are you trying to make a profit off of the cd or are you trying to get your music out. I think most people would be happy getting their music out and making some new fans. It's hard to do that if you are charging them for the cd. I always gave mine away (granted there was only 6 songs on each one but it did the trick).

 

 

Agreed! I wouldn't sell any cd's for anymore than 10 dollars at the most and that would be if it was very well done. Who wants to pay 15 or 20 dollars for an unsigned band with a {censored}e demo. I don't and if you want to get more cd's out there selling them at a lower price would probably entice more people to buy them.

[BlueStrat]

 

Because it costs $9 to produce a CD right, so you'll be making a buck, right? No, because it costs $1 - $2 to produce a CD and at $10 a whack you're basically printing money. So there is no need to gouge YOUR fans for $15 or $20 ($20 for a noname CD?).

 

 

Let's talk about 'need'.

 

This is my experience; yours may vary.

 

Band truck payment: $225/m0.

Insurance, $70/mo

Fuel to gigs averaging 200 miles away one way: $120

Motel Rooms ( when they aren't provided: two per month @ $60 each, or $120

Guarantee to band members to go out of town: $100/man per night ($400)

 

Not to mention food, instrument maintenance, etc etc.

 

 

Now, this is so you can go play in new territory and try to break new ground where you're competing with local bands who play for almost free and give away CDs thinking they're going to draw a crowd this way. And you find out the clubs don't charge 'regulars' or pool players, which is like half the crowd. So you end up pulling 2 or 3 hundred dollars out of pocket to cover expenses, and selling CDs is the one way to make up for it.

 

And FWIW, my CDs are done in a studio, not a home PC, and cost about 5 bucks each after manufacturing. But that's beside the point. In a market economy, things are sold based on what the market will bear according to supply, demand, and desire for a product, not based on how much they cost to produce. If that were the case, a pair of Levi's would be 3 bucks, a Starbuck's coffee would be 39 cents, and a Hummer would be 3,000 dollars.

 

I've sold CDs for 15, and I've sold them for 10, and I don't sell any more of them at 10 than I do 15, because if people want it, they'll buy it, in my experience anyway. In fact, they'll quite often give me a 20 and tell me to keep the change. The only ones who seem to think their material isn't worth much are musicians themselves, who insist on the idiotic notion that if they give it away, more people will want it. If that were the case, wouldn't more people want to drive Hyundais than Camrys? I mean, after all, aren't Hyundais less money?

 

If you think giving your audience a good deal is the point, why sell CDs for 10? Why not sell them for the two or three bucks it costs to produce them?

 

The idea that profit is okay, but 'too much' profit is somehow bad, is a juvenile one, usually held by children, artists and slackers. The market will decide what is too much profit when you put your product up for sale. If I'm selling fine at 15 bucks, why change it? If I'm not, I'll try lowering the price. If I still don't sell, maybe I have a crap product and price isn't the issue.

 

And finally, I'll wrap this little economic diatribe up with this:

In 1969, a vinyl record with 40 minutes of music on it cost $3.50 . This is when gas was .30 cents a gallon, cigarettes were .33 cents, Levis were 3 dollars a pair, and a brand new Mustang was less than 4000 dollars. my crappy high scool band made 200 dollars a gig, and our house cost 21,000 dollars. My dad supported our family on 500 dollars a month.

 

Had music costs kept up with the cost of everything else, a CD with 60 minutes of music on it ought to cost 30-40 dollars. Bars would pay 2000 dollars a night. But today it isnt half that much.

 

Gee, I wonder why musicians have a hard time making a living?

[BlueStrat]

Agreed! I wouldn't sell any cd's for anymore than 10 dollars at the most and that would be if it was very well done. Who wants to pay 15 or 20 dollars for an unsigned band with a {censored}e demo. I don't and if you want to get more cd's out there selling them at a lower price would probably entice more people to buy them.

 

Why don't you apply this to the job market? Hey, if you go out and sell your time to Microsoft or even Capitol Records for 3 bucks an hour, they'll be more likely to hire you and then you can work your way up to making just enough to live on, sice you wouldn't want to make 'excessive profit.'

 

Oh, crap, that won't work, because the next guy will come along and undercut you at 2 bucks an hour. Dang, I though I had it figured out.

 

 

 

Hey, I got it!

 

Instead of producing something cheaply that no one wants and trying to sell it for 5 or 10, why not invest in making a really good product and sell it for more money?

[rockerdiva]

Instead of producing something cheaply that no one wants and trying to sell it for 5 or 10, why not invest in making a really good product and sell it for more money?

 

I'm with BlueStrat. If I am selling them at $15, and people seem happy to buy them at that price - why would I go down to $10?

 

And why is making a profit ok, but making a little more profit not ok? It's hard to make a living as a musician. I'm a good one, and my CD is quite good, so -

 

And like BlueStrat, I made my CDs in a studio not on my home PC. I had an older one that I made on the cheap and it cost more like $1 or $2 each after the first 1000 production cost. The cost of second one was close to $10 each - and yes, I do feel it is of the quality that it is worth selling for $15 -

[Ides of March]

Why don't you apply this to the job market? Hey, if you go out and sell your time to Microsoft or even Capitol Records for 3 bucks an hour, they'll be more likely to hire you and then you can work your way up to making just enough to live on, sice you wouldn't want to make 'excessive profit.' Oh, crap, that won't work, because the next guy will come along and undercut you at 2 bucks an hour. Dang, I though I had it figured out. Hey, I got it! Instead of producing something cheaply that no one wants and trying to sell it for 5 or 10, why not invest in making a really good product and sell it for more money?

 

I understand what you are saying, but I make my recordings on a Boss Br900cd digital recorder with 8 tracks and numberous virtual tracks. And I usually use all the tracks I can with guitar, bass (les paul with bass sim) vocals, and I have a small drum kit, snare, hi hat, ride/crash, tom but no kick drum. I have been told the recordings are good but I don't feel they are worth 15 or 20 dollars for my songs that not many people know if any. That is what I meant. And I don't have the cabbage for a professionaly done cd. I do have one song that is professionaly done though. Would like to do another.

[ihateyouguys]

 

Because it costs $9 to produce a CD right, so you'll be making a buck, right? No, because it costs $1 - $2 to produce a CD and at $10 a whack you're basically printing money. So there is no need to gouge YOUR fans for $15 or $20 ($20 for a noname CD?).

 

 

Because when you print up a thousand CD's, you're guaranteed you'll sell them at the price you want for them, right? It's like printing money!

[BlueStrat]

Because when you print up a thousand CD's, you're guaranteed you'll sell them at the price you want for them, right? It's like printing money!

 

 

[MartinC]

Let's talk about 'need'. I've sold CDs for 15, and I've sold them for 10, and I don't sell any more of them at 10 than I do 15, because if people want it, they'll buy it, in my experience anyway. In fact, they'll quite often give me a 20 and tell me to keep the change.

 

Bingo. that's why I raised the price to 20 at corporates and weddings. If you are enjoying a band live, and want to take their music home, 20.00 is cheap. And after they burn a half dozen copies, then they'll really get a deal.

[Chicken Monkey]

I think that we're talking about totally different venues, here, though. If you're in a bar, I'd assume that a $5 difference would make a bigger difference, since the music is kind of a sidebar to the customer's prime intention. At a concert/festival/corporate gig, people are neccessarily music fans, have already made a choice to spend money on you (for a ticket or whatever), and are likely to continue directing money towards music.

[wagdog]

 

Let's talk about 'need'. This is my experience; yours may vary. Band truck payment: $225/m0. Insurance, $70/mo Fuel to gigs averaging 200 miles away one way: $120 Motel Rooms ( when they aren't provided: two per month @ $60 each, or $120 Guarantee to band members to go out of town: $100/man per night ($400) Not to mention food, instrument maintenance, etc etc. ... Gee, I wonder why musicians have a hard time making a living?

 

 

I can't argue with you, because you are of course correct.

 

I will say though, that in my experience as a consumer that I will buy a $10 CD in a bar or at a festival and I will never buy a $15 one. It's just a price point for me and an impulse buy and I suspect for a lot of other people (maybe I'm wrong).

[wagdog]

 

I'm with BlueStrat. If I am selling them at $15, and people seem happy to buy them at that price - why would I go down to $10?

 

 

Don't, it seems to be working for you.

[wagdog]

 

Because when you print up a thousand CD's, you're guaranteed you'll sell them at the price you want for them, right? It's like printing money!

 

 

My point is that I would probably buy one without much thought for $10. For $15 I probably (actually) won't buy one. I think you would have an easier time selling them for $10. Other people feel differently, and that's fine; if it works for them, so be it.

[Terry Allan Hall]

If you don't value your work, why should anyone else?

 

 

[gtrjones]

If you're trying to get full retail for your CDs, they better be able to fully compete w/ all the professional CDs you can buy for the same price. While I value the product we have, I know that our product can't compete with the latest disc from Reckless Kelly or Cross Canadian Ragweed (just 2 acts releasing similar music), so we price our stuff accordingly.

 

Nothing worse than seeing a friend pay $15 for a CD at a show 'cause they liked the band, then get it home and it sounds like it was recorded in the drummer's garage through 2 shure 57s, and 'mastered' onto a cassette.

[Ian Chandler]

Right now, at your level, go with five to eight bucks. You said the price wasn't a real concern. Once you get gigging a lot, go up to eleven or twelve.

[Lurko]

No way would I pay more than $10 for a CD. Those days are long gone.

[BlueStrat]

No way would I pay more than $10 for a CD. Those days are long gone.

 

You would if I hypnotized you.

 

 

:poke:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seriously, most of my fans are 35-60, and they don't seem to mind shelling it out. Like I said, many of them give me a 20 and tell me to keep the change. I suppose it'd be different if they were college students, high school kids, or young guys just starting out in life.

[strathound]

 

Because it's by a local band. It's the same reason someone will pay a $5 cover to see a local band and $30 (more like $50 and up actually) to see a national act at a concert. And I'll betcha a nickel the local band makes more profit per CD on a $10 disc then a national act that sells their wares in a store. Of course the bigger act will (hopefully) make more on the volume, but that's not the point. So anyway, I don't buy $15 CD's of ANY band, in a store, off a table, anywhere. The fact is, these days I pretty much only buy tunes I like from iTunes. And yes, I have bought local artists music from iTunes too.

 

 

Nice logic. The signed major label band got paid in advance, is making a small cut of the CD price and rest goes to the label, but you'd pay more for that? But the independent local act who fronted the cash themselves, hired the musicians, did all the promotion and are now sweating bullets to pay the rent ... those guys you won't give $15 for a CD? And you yourself are a musician? Hmmm, only one word comes to mind ... karma.

 

I pretty much only buy local CDs anymore. I pay whatever they are asking. And if I'm nice, I usually get a signed version of the CD to add to my collection. And some of these CD's, you'll have to drag from my cold dead hands.

[strathound]

 

No way would I pay more than $10 for a CD. Those days are long gone.

 

 

I respectfully disagree. Yes, people steal music online all the time, driving the price down. Yes, you can now buy the single track you want for $0.99 online (or less, if you don't mind buying stolen material in countries like ... Russia) and never purchase the CD.

 

But remember, everytime you play live, you have an opportunity to give a fan something unique and personalized. You can give them memories. You can give them respect and status as one of your fans. If you don't value your product, neither will they. Charge what you think it's worth. And give them a little extra.

 

Good luck,

[edgerunner]

Hmmm . . . very interesting thread. I am new around here but I thought I'd jump in on this.

 

Background - my interest in music goes back to HS (now 46) when I started playing guitar with visions of YES and RUSH dancing in my head. Mostly ended up playing in church (still do) and quickly realized that though I learned fairly quickly and got somewhat competant - I was a much better acoustic player than electric - so ROCK STAR was not a reasonable career path for moi. Got involved working for awhile in recording studios as office assistant, gofer and tape op, and then started having kids and realized it was time to step away from the board . . . and get a "real" job.

 

Which worked in terms of being able to support my family, have a house, etc. Still miss the "VISION" but satisfied with getting my creativity and playing out in church and playing in the pit for community theater productions.

 

Fast forward to now - my oldest daughter (19) and younger son (15) are playing in a band (Within The Walls - myspace.com\withinthewallsband) and getting to play some occasional gigs in local clubs and having fun writing, practicing, and playing as much as they can. My daughter has dreams of Broadway (she has been dancing for years, singing for years, and acting since middle school), but can fall back to teaching dance someday if needed. My younger son is totally focused on BASS and thinks he'll be the next Mark Hoppus and be "a star".

 

I am trying to help them out while still keeping a reality check in place to help them understand just how hard they'll have to work to be in the performing arts, and how WIDE they need to cast their talents and how flexible they'll need to be to have any hope of making a living this way.

 

So - my interest in this topic is really to help research what they can and should be doing to have the best chance to see at least some success (however they end up defining that).

 

Now - to the topic at hand. Seems to me Bluestrat is dead on the mark. This is a business and it isn't just the cost of the CD you need to recoup. But ALL the other costs of being a musician as well. CDs, downloads, other merch, and playing live . . . these are your product, and from the total revenue of selling these - you need to subtract ALL your costs as well as TAXES (both income and sales - you are collecting sales tax aren't you?). ;-)

 

So here's the thing. I LOVE music and I LOVE certain artists, many local or small musicians. These folks *I* will gladly pay the $15 or $20 because I want to support them. However, I will be the first to admit that the biggest source of lost sales for "classic rock" in my household isn't online downloads - it's ripping CDs from the library or friend's collections. This is WRONG! Totally wrong. However, I feel like these are albums that I owned on vinyl, then cassette, and spent tons of money on over the years (recordings and concerts) to line the record company coffers - some of which (very little percentagewise) went to the artists. So I guess I rationalize my way into stealing these copies now.

 

In any case, I worry for my kids who have talent and drive, that there won't be anything better than amateur, local gigs and self produced "cheapie" CDs going forward because there is very little leeway to earn money from music for original musicians. I say, charge what the market will bear, because you need every dime you can get just to get by and cover expenses. However, if all your selling is cheapie self produced PC CD's - then don't expect to get $15, $12, or even $10 from your fans. Word will spread that these are a rip off and WILL hurt your credibility eventually. Be honest with yourself about the quality of your products and charge accordingly.

 

Cheers!

Chuck

[cyberwolf]

It seems much more reasonable to charge $10 vs. $15 for a CD, especially if you are an independent band. To me, $10 seems the going rate for a non-label band to sell a full-length CD for. Making your CD available for download is great to, but it seems the majority of the people out there these days just aren't into investing long term in music any more - it's easier to get the music for cheap (or free!) without the packaging and lyrics (big deal, say some - pox on that, I say.)

 

I've hit the threshold on this one just a few months back when I decided to cast caution to the wind (some say common sense) and offer ALL my music (4 CD's) for free download direct from my site. Of course, the full length CD's are still available for purchase for those who truly want to support independent artists, or want the booklet with the graphical bells and whistles. But I did swallow the red pill on that one, and reconfigured my promotional strategy - people just want stuff for free, regardless, and as I'm not exactly burning up Soundscan or the Billboard charts, I decided not to fight the tide.

 

I don't have alot to lose from this, more to gain, actually, as the CD's were bought and paid for many moons ago, and I've never expected to garner much profit from recording CD's anyhow. Additionally, considering I'm basically a 1-man band who functions as everything from A&R through Marketing on all of my artistic endeavors, it just cuts out some of the financial hassles.

 

Basically it's a trade off. Offer your stuff for free, you might make less of a profit in the short term, but you may obtain more interest from folks. Nothings a sureshot deal here but suffice to say, some exposure is better than none, regardless of how you manage to acquire it - as long as it's legal.