Members DarkHorseJ27 Posted June 30, 2012 Members Share Posted June 30, 2012 Not happy with the stock pickup in my Epiphone Les Paul Junior. The stock pickup is an Epiphone 700T, and according to Epiphone's website it has a ceramic magnet. A lot of what I read about alnico vs ceramic suggests swapping the magnets will get more the sound I am looking for, not to mention cheaper than swapping pickups. I also think it's funner to mod stuff rather than just buy a replacement. But I can't decide whether I should get alnico II or alnico V. Opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members billybilly Posted June 30, 2012 Members Share Posted June 30, 2012 Depends, alnico II's are warmer and I like them for certain applications, probably a little more than alnico V's. I am not a ceramic fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jrockbridge Posted June 30, 2012 Members Share Posted June 30, 2012 I think there are some problems with your thread premise. Your information is too vague. First, you don't give any details about what you don't like about the sound of your current ceramic pickups. Second, you haven't given any description of what type of sound you are trying to achieve with the magnet swap. Finally, you seem to imply that there is a hierarchy of tone based on magnet type, as if ceramic magnets will automatically lead to bad sound and a popular choice of alnico type will magically transform a pickup into having great tone. The fact is that ceramic, alnico II, and alnico V can all sound great with the right wind and materials. In any case, I think asking people to vote for their favorite magnet type is a strange way to solve this riddle. Before you swap magnets, I think you should take out a screwdriver and change the height of the pickups. Just as a complete stab in the dark, try lowering the pickups away from the strings a bit to reduce the output and help them sound a bit warmer. If you can't get a sound you like by adjusting pickup height, I doubt a magnet swap is going to be a big enough improvement to make you like the pickups. IME, you have to already somewhat like a pickup for a magnet swap to make an improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PrawnHeed Posted June 30, 2012 Members Share Posted June 30, 2012 You can get any tone with any magnet material. As said, adjusting the height and the polepieces is going to have a more predictable effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaveGrima Posted June 30, 2012 Members Share Posted June 30, 2012 Split the difference, get alnico III. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GAS Man Posted June 30, 2012 Members Share Posted June 30, 2012 I'd say go Alnico II if you want a more classic deep warm tone with articulate sparkly treble or go Alnico V if you want a more aggressive percussive mid vibey tone. It's quite common to go Alnico II for the neck and Alnico V for the bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Elias Graves Posted June 30, 2012 Members Share Posted June 30, 2012 Thing is, that a cheap pickup. Swapping a magnet won't change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DarkHorseJ27 Posted June 30, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 30, 2012 I think there are some problems with your thread premise. Your information is too vague. First, you don't give any details about what you don't like about the sound of your current ceramic pickups. Second, you haven't given any description of what type of sound you are trying to achieve with the magnet swap. Finally, you seem to imply that there is a hierarchy of tone based on magnet type, as if ceramic magnets will automatically lead to bad sound and a popular choice of alnico type will magically transform a pickup into having great tone.The fact is that ceramic, alnico II, and alnico V can all sound great with the right wind and materials. In any case, I think asking people to vote for their favorite magnet type is a strange way to solve this riddle. Before you swap magnets, I think you should take out a screwdriver and change the height of the pickups. Just as a complete stab in the dark, try lowering the pickups away from the strings a bit to reduce the output and help them sound a bit warmer. If you can't get a sound you like by adjusting pickup height, I doubt a magnet swap is going to be a big enough improvement to make you like the pickups. IME, you have to already somewhat like a pickup for a magnet swap to make an improvement. What I don't like about the pickup is it sounds too harsh and muddy with little depth. What I am looking for is a warmer, smoother tone with more depth. I have already tried adjusting the pickup height, and while an improvement its not good enough yet. I never implied there is a hierarchy on tone, as you put it. I simply stated that from what I read about magnets that it sounds like alnico would be better candidate for the sound I want. That is a far cry from me being a cork sniffer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alecto Posted June 30, 2012 Members Share Posted June 30, 2012 In this case, you're trying to polish a turd; it can be done (thank you, Mythbusters!) but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. You'd be better off just swapping out the pickup, IMO. There are plenty of pickup manufacturers who build good (and occasionally great) pickups for relatively cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GilmourD Posted June 30, 2012 Members Share Posted June 30, 2012 Split the difference, get alnico III. AlNiCo 8 is the hot magnet over at the Seymour Duncan forum. That answer rough cast unoriented A5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rand-O-Monium Posted June 30, 2012 Members Share Posted June 30, 2012 V When I got my LP,it had a Duncan Custom Custom in it,br pos(Al II). Hated it,the mids made it sound like an old Peavey amp. .02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rand-O-Monium Posted June 30, 2012 Members Share Posted June 30, 2012 AlNiCo 8 is the hot magnet over at the Seymour Duncan forum. That answer rough cast unoriented A5. Gotta try a C8,heard nothing but good things about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GilmourD Posted June 30, 2012 Members Share Posted June 30, 2012 Gotta try a C8,heard nothing but good things about it. C8 is regular ceramic. You mean A8? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bro Blue Posted June 30, 2012 Members Share Posted June 30, 2012 I use both. The IIs are better clean, to me. V drives the front end harder, II lets the amp be the amp, if that makes sense. Both sound good with dirt, just different. I would suggest swapping pickups and not trying to do anything with the stock pickup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaveGrima Posted June 30, 2012 Members Share Posted June 30, 2012 Based on everything Ive read on pickups, the magnet type actually has less to do with the sound as most people tend to think. If you have a bad sounding pickup , just changing the magnet type probably wont do any good. In fact some manufacturers have said the whole ceramic vs. alnico thing is a myth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GilmourD Posted June 30, 2012 Members Share Posted June 30, 2012 Based on everything Ive read on pickups, the magnet type actually has less to do with the sound as most people tend to think. If you have a bad sounding pickup , just changing the magnet type probably wont do any good. In fact some manufacturers have said the whole ceramic vs. alnico thing is a myth. That's not true at all. Look at the Seymour Duncan Custom series. They all have vastly different sounds using the same coils. The Custom has ceramic, the Custom Custom has A2, and the Custom 5 has A5. A lot of users over at the Seymour Duncan forum have also swapped in A3, A4, rough cast A5, rough cast unoriented A5, and A8 into them with success being measure by the tastes of the user. I took the AlNiCo Classic neck pickup from my Epi LP and slapped an A8 into it. It actually made it usable. Still not perfect but better than the unusable mud with the stock magnet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Spike Li Posted June 30, 2012 Members Share Posted June 30, 2012 That's not true at all. +1 With Gibson pickups, supposedly the only difference between the 490t, 498t and 500t are the magnet types (Alnico II, Alnico V and Ceramic respectively). These all sound pretty damn different. Oh and I personally prefer Alnico V to II. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jrockbridge Posted June 30, 2012 Members Share Posted June 30, 2012 What I don't like about the pickup is it sounds too harsh and muddy with little depth. What I am looking for is a warmer, smoother tone with more depth. I have already tried adjusting the pickup height, and while an improvement its not good enough yet.I never implied there is a hierarchy on tone, as you put it. I simply stated that from what I read about magnets that it sounds like alnico would be better candidate for the sound I want. That is a far cry from me being a cork sniffer. In my experience, when pickups sound muddy, moving the pup closer to the strings can help. Of course, you don't want the pup so close that the magnets affect the string vibration. Also, moving the pup closer to the strings will make the guitar sound brighter and harsher, so you'll need to roll off the tone control knob on the guitar. Depending on how your guitar is wired, you may be able to roll off treble by backing down the volume control. Try tone, then volume and then a combination of both. You should be able to get a nice balance of clarity and warmth via pickup height and guitar knobs. If the pickups remain muddy, I don't think a magnet swap will help that aspect. Weaker magnets can change the sound a bit and possibly mellow out the brightness. But, again, if you can't get the guitar to sound close via pup height adjustment and guitar knobs, I think the next step is a pup swap, not a magnet swap. The magnet swaps I've done affected subtle changes, not dramatic changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Spike Li Posted June 30, 2012 Members Share Posted June 30, 2012 In my experience, when pickups sound muddy, moving the pup closer to the strings can help. Of course, you don't want the pup so close that the magnets affect the string vibration. Um, you sho bout that? Moving pickups closer to the strings should maker them bassier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jrockbridge Posted June 30, 2012 Members Share Posted June 30, 2012 What I don't like about the pickup is it sounds too harsh and muddy.... These have to be the weirdest, shittiest pups of all time. I suggest you burn them in a special ceremony and start fresh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jrockbridge Posted June 30, 2012 Members Share Posted June 30, 2012 Um, you sho bout that? Moving pickups closer to the strings should maker them bassier I was thinking about this more and wondering if the 'boom' when raising pups might be 'wolf tones.' I think it's similar to the bass increase that happens with a close mic'd speaker. In general, I don't think I ever move pups that close to the strings. Also, I'm wondering if you tend more toward humbuckers while I tend to favor SC pups. Perhaps, that might explain how we seem to perceive this different. My answers were based on my experience and perception, not science. Perhaps, I've gotten it wrong. However, since the treble and bass side of pup height can be adjusted differently, there's some ability to balance treble and bass output. Also, you can adjust the pole pieces Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DarkHorseJ27 Posted June 30, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 30, 2012 I'm confused how the OP ended up with pickups that sound both muddy and harsh. Those two descriptions seem to be in conflict with one another. I can see how the two descriptions can seem contradictory. I don't mean harsh as in the way a tele pickup can sound harsh. It doesn't have any real smoothness or sweetness to the sound, and harsh seemed like a good lazy word to use as its the opposite of smooth and sweet. In all fairness though, I'm used to the stock pickups in my 1967 Gibson ES-335, so I guess my ears are spoiled. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the two main variables in a traditional pickups sound the amount of winding and the type of magnet? I fully admit I may be wrong, but if I am I want to know why I am wrong. I like to learn. Also, I'm wanting to mod the pickup to learn how to tinker with them as much as to get a better sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GilmourD Posted June 30, 2012 Members Share Posted June 30, 2012 I can see how the two descriptions can seem contradictory. I don't mean harsh as in the way a tele pickup can sound harsh. It doesn't have any real smoothness or sweetness to the sound, and harsh seemed like a good lazy word to use as its the opposite of smooth and sweet. In all fairness though, I'm used to the stock pickups in my 1967 Gibson ES-335, so I guess my ears are spoiled. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the two main variables in a traditional pickups sound the amount of winding and the type of magnet? I fully admit I may be wrong, but if I am I want to know why I am wrong. I like to learn. Also, I'm wanting to mod the pickup to learn how to tinker with them as much as to get a better sound. Well... MAIN variables. There are also variables regarding wire type (plain enamal, polysol, etc.), the wire gauge (a PAF is 42AWG wire, a Custom is 43AWG which is thinner, and a JB is 44), how it's wound on the bobbin, the dimensions of the bobbin (how much material/space there is between the coil and the poles, how tall the bobbin is), what the baseplate is made of (brass, German silver, plastic, etc.), and a million other things. The 700T is apparently in the high 16K range, so it's probably wound like a hotter JB... My worry is that an A2 would roll the treble off too much. However an A5 might give you a good, sharp upper mid spike that makes the pickup sound honky. Maybe an A8? Magnets are cheap, so you can buy all three and try 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GilmourD Posted June 30, 2012 Members Share Posted June 30, 2012 Oh, www.addiction-fx.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members i3oosted Posted June 30, 2012 Members Share Posted June 30, 2012 There's good and bad examples of each but I prefer A5's, snappier and more punch. Currently playing SD A2's but looking to get a SD 59(A5) for the bridge and a SD PG(A2) for the neck. Seymour Duncan himself prefers A2's, said something along the lines of them being the most 'musical'.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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