Members Dr. Scottie C Posted October 7, 2013 Members Share Posted October 7, 2013 Our resident hero Scott Groves takes you to school on Ghost Builds and makers who say they are USA (but never were whatsoever.....ie: Kramer)More spoilers.....* Ibanez is NOT an actual guitar company......all 100% ghost build.....other companies make them.....the LOGOS then applied......according to Groves..... Satch & Jems (for example)...made in California.....Ibanez "J-Craft" logos thrown on.* Ed Roman made Van Halens guitars in the 1980's that said "Kramer" on them.* Your Gibson..... likely not made by Gibson. Gibson's played by famous artists....absolutely/100% not made by Gibson.* Schecter doesn't make guitars. Schecter makes none of it. Sub contracted.* Gretsch USA guitars of today = actually made in Japan* 12 different companies make "USA Gibson" and regardless of whether they say "Made in USA"...not 100% true. Informative.....but pack a lunch..... 48 minutes long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kayd_mon Posted October 7, 2013 Members Share Posted October 7, 2013 Ok, so I can't watch this now. But how true is it? Does he give any proof? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dr. Scottie C Posted October 7, 2013 Author Members Share Posted October 7, 2013 kayd_mon wrote: Ok, so I can't watch this now. But how true is it? Does he give any proof? Honestly..... I think the guy is about 80% on the money.You know..... (and this is a true story)..... Groves doesn't live but 25-30 minutes from Ed Romans famous Las Vegas Showroom of guitars...... the story I was told by an employee of Roman's on another guitar forum.--- Guy walks in to the showroom....wasn't in the building 90 seconds....points to a Schon guitar from the 1980's that was marked $2k, and says "I will give you $1600 for that $1500 guitar, now leave me alone and I may pick out some other stuff......and don't BS me....I get the OHSC with everything or you can keep it."--- Roman goes over to the guy....they don't "argue" per se.... but they are definetly having a pissing contest over who knows more about guitars and music.--- Said guy walks around....picks out 21 more guitars for a total of 22...... and offer $28,000 for all of them..... Roman says "Not a penny below $30k"...... The guy says "$29,000, you deliver them to this address, as I can't put 22 guitar in my car.....and I will have cash waiting."--- Roman agreed..... the guitars were delivered the next day as it took them a while to find the cases for some...... they were delivered to Scott Groves by two employees...... and he had $29,000 cash waiting.....and they said he spent 2 hours inspecting every guitar when they delivered them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kayd_mon Posted October 7, 2013 Members Share Posted October 7, 2013 But what proof is there about the claims? That story proves he has money, but I'm sure tons of people here inspect their guitars for hours, but that doesn't make them experts on where instruments are manufactured Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kayd_mon Posted October 7, 2013 Members Share Posted October 7, 2013 *terribly written sentence there. Can't edit via phone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted October 7, 2013 Members Share Posted October 7, 2013 .....reminds me of another expert. Do you think they are related? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Beyer160 Posted October 7, 2013 Members Share Posted October 7, 2013 Dr. Scottie C wrote: Our resident hero Scott Groves takes you to school on Ghost Builds and makers who say they are USA (but never were whatsoever.....ie: Kramer) * 12 different companies make "USA Gibson" and regardless of whether they say "Made in USA"...not 100% true. Then what DO they make at that plant in Nashville? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kayd_mon Posted October 7, 2013 Members Share Posted October 7, 2013 Mandolins, definitely. I visited once, and watched them working on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dr. Scottie C Posted October 7, 2013 Author Members Share Posted October 7, 2013 A very well known guitar tech in my city Steve Unicapher in 2003 took a job at Gibson Nashville.... over the few years when he would come back to visit, we would all tease.... "so, uh, Steve... did you happen to grab a Custom Shop Lester or two for us on your way out the door."He would say "Don't get me wrong, I love working there, but we really don't make that many guitars. We make tons of parts that we ship out, but I can't believe how few guitars we make."Now.... I am not saying that this proves that Groves is right..... BUT.... with Gibson now whoring out these "faded" and "gothic" and other "affordable" lines over the last decade.... you would think a full time employee at the plant would see an abundance of guitars if they were being produced right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kayd_mon Posted October 7, 2013 Members Share Posted October 7, 2013 I thought that the majority of guitars were built in thr Memphis factory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kayd_mon Posted October 7, 2013 Members Share Posted October 7, 2013 @lz4005 That's what I expect is the real case. The thing I'm curious about is the claim that something is MIA but is really a total import - not that materials didn't come from somewhere else (is there any USA-grown rosewood, for example?) but that they're falsely stamped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lz4005 Posted October 7, 2013 Members Share Posted October 7, 2013 Companies have played fast and loose with the country of origin for a long time. It isn't nearly as simple as most people think it is.The rules change from year to year about exactly how much of the manufacturing process has to be done in country to be able to claim origin. Sometimes you can say something was Made In USA if the final assembly was done here, like bolting on the neck and screwing in a loaded pick guard, even if all those parts were made somewhere else.If you have parts made in 4 different countries, finish applied in a 5th and assembly done in a 6th, what do you claim? Different countries have different laws about it. Canada is very strict about labelling, for example.It also depends on what kind of inspections and verifications are going on. I'm sure a lot of guitar companies got away with inaccurate country of origin stamps because nobody was checking on them back in the 80's.People have gotten too used to reading country of origin as shorthand for quality. You can make terrible instruments in the US and you can spec (and pay for) great quality instruments from Korea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Elias Graves Posted October 8, 2013 Members Share Posted October 8, 2013 I think this dude is aiming to fill Ed's smelly shoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Danhedonia Posted October 8, 2013 Members Share Posted October 8, 2013 Having lived right near Ed Roman and hated him instinctively (later reinforced by experiences), I find it very easy to believe that Scott Grove was his peer. Talk about sewer water seeking its own level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted October 9, 2013 Members Share Posted October 9, 2013 This guy is trying to fill the void left by Ed Roman. He's just a condescending jackass... Outsourced manufacturing? No way, really? Does that happen these days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Elias Graves Posted October 9, 2013 Members Share Posted October 9, 2013 Ghost build implies hiding the maker's identity.Subcontractors are merely that. Look at the back of a Gretsch electromatic. "Made in Korea." That's no a "ghost build." That's a subcontractor.Mr Grove is a dumb motherfukker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DarkHorseJ27 Posted October 9, 2013 Members Share Posted October 9, 2013 Elias Graves wrote: Ghost build implies hiding the maker's identity. Subcontractors are merely that. Look at the back of a Gretsch electromatic. "Made in Korea." That's no a "ghost build." That's a subcontractor. Mr Grove is a dumb motherfukker. In reaction to him several people dug up a lot of information and posted it here, and now we are all better for that knowledge. Perhap Scott Grove is a tad smarter than we thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kayd_mon Posted October 9, 2013 Members Share Posted October 9, 2013 I like the lolz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knotty Posted October 9, 2013 Members Share Posted October 9, 2013 kayd_mon wrote: I like the lolz. Me too but there ain't many left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Elias Graves Posted October 9, 2013 Members Share Posted October 9, 2013 knotty Super Contributor12:30 PMkayd_mon wrote:I like the lolz.Me too but there ain't many left.Add CommentKudo 0 Speak for yourself white man.Now excuse me. My clown shoes are ready at the shop. I had new rainbow stripes applied this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted October 11, 2013 Members Share Posted October 11, 2013 That's not a ridiculous number per year. It's a big world and less than 5% of the people in it live in the USA. LOTS of those LP are are heading offshore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bucksstudent Posted October 11, 2013 Members Share Posted October 11, 2013 Now I understand why they overcharge. If they sold 10,000 instruments at 2000 to 3000 bucks a product (Obviously they have more expensive models), then that's... twenty to thirty million dollars. However can you run a factory on that chump change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members d_dave_c Posted October 11, 2013 Members Share Posted October 11, 2013 I drive by Henry J's house a couple times a week. Judging by the recent renovations, they're selling a lot of 'em and doing just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kayd_mon Posted October 11, 2013 Members Share Posted October 11, 2013 If you throw one egg for each complaint about Gibson here on HCEG, you won't be able to see the renovations for all the shells Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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