Live Music: the main deal now?

[GlennGalen]

I've done a lot of reading and study about the way the music business has changed... now that recorded music can be effortlessly passed around from computer to computer over the Internet.

 

Microsoft Windows makes it a 1-click effort: drop a CD in the drive, Say "Yes" when it asks you if you'd like to store the songs on your computer.

 

Done. Email the songs to your brother.

 

What are the ramifications of this? Where is this business really headed?

 

Here's what I think might follow from all this:

 

 

 

Musicians have to sell something that can't be taken and traded: live shows. The live experience. The emotion generated in "real time", to a happy crowd.

 

 

 

People will have to learn to play their instruments in real time! Can't make money on loop or midi-based studio recordings; they are freely passed around: the better they are, the more quickly they will be ripped from the CD and eagerly passed to a friend or on Limewire.

 

 

 

There will be fewer people making good music, because a lot of people won't take the time to (or can't) learn to really play their instrument and perform live with quality.

 

 

 

Artists will give away CDs and MP3s as a way to bring in people to their live shows.

 

 

 

Artists will burn CDs at the show and sell them to the crowd as they are leaving. This is happening now, of course.

 

 

 

All CDs will be less "produced" when they are free giveaways.

 

 

 

If your audience is baby boomers, you are OK with CDs for quite a while.

 

 

 

If your audience is 15-25, you are hurting already from CD sales. Live music is your way to make money as a performer.

 

 

 

People (mainly age 35+) still listen to CDs in their cars and at home...but increasingly it'll be iPod-type devices everywhere...even in newer cars.

 

 

 

Eventually there will be less and less recorded music available, certainly less professionally recorded music. If you can't make money on it...so why do it, other than as a hobby?

 

 

 

CD sales will go down over the years, as digital file distribution goes up as the digital devices become the universal medium.

 

 

 

The entire recording industry will shrink: studios, engineers, CD manufacturing, distributors, hardware manufacturers.

 

 

 

The live concert industry will grow, along with industries that support it: lighting, sound reinforcement, internet-based ticket sales, video display technology.

 

 

 

 

 

I can think of more, but I am really interested in hearing what conclusions other people have come to about the future of the business.

 

What are your thoughts about where this is all headed?

 

Am I right? Wrong?

 

--- Glenn

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/GlennGalen

[JBJ]

nothing i can really add to it but as someone who's planning on releasing an album in the next month or two that by all intents and purposes should sell well considering the niche we fit into, i'm expecting to take a big hit because of how easy it is to copy and distribute music for free these days:mad:

[cybersecretary]

live music.. you said it...nothing like being there.. nothing like playing for people. the industry is changing so fast....if your ideas come true i am glad i love to plug in and crank it up and play and get the energy going...

[DirtyBird]

 

nothing i can really add to it but as someone who's planning on releasing an album in the next month or two that by all intents and purposes should sell well considering the niche we fit into, i'm expecting to take a big hit because of how easy it is to copy and distribute music for free these days:mad:

 

 

If people like it they will still buy it. If they still it, it doesnt mean they like it enough to buy it in the first place.

 

Im sure it will make a dent, but to figure out how much that dent is, is very much a gray area.

 

Besides, with online distribution your songs will get heard by more people... it may work itself out...

 

But in the end none of us really, really know.

[memphis]

You have good points, but I make music because I like the way it sounds when I listen to it in my living room.. it doesn't matter what format I listen to in my living room, I still want it to sound good. Sure, CDs might not the be format of choice, but I think people will still strive to produce good music.

[Kuhnfyoozed]

I think, regardless of the opportunity to make money off of recordings, there will always be those who take the time to produce a very, very nice product, and those who will rush through the process and make a {censored}ty product: "Does this sound okay to you? I was kind of buzzed when we did it, but I think its pretty close to lining up..."

[BlueStrat]

I think, regardless of the opportunity to make money off of recordings, there will always be those who take the time to produce a very, very nice product, and those who will rush through the process and make a {censored}ty product: "Does this sound okay to you? I was kind of buzzed when we did it, but I think its pretty close to lining up..."

 

LOL!

Yeah, I love all the "CHECK MY BAND OUT!!" threads on various forums, and then the first thing they say is 'the recording isn't very good, the songs still needs work, we just did it with a two track in my parents' basement...:blah: '

 

So, I always want to ask them: If it's incomplete and an admittedly half-assed product, why are you putting it out for consumption?

[joie]

The reality is live rock shows are going the way of CD's.

 

I remember in the 80's my town had over 20 clubs that had rock bands

every weekend that drew large crowds.

 

Today, only about 6 of those venues still offer live guitar based music.

 

Back then, Almost every 23 yr old I knew went to at least 15 rock shows a year,

 

I would find it very hard to believe if that happens today.

[uncle psychosis]

"home taping is killing music".

 

You'd think it'd be dead by now...

 

Sam

[GlennGalen]

LOL! Yeah, I love all the "CHECK MY BAND OUT!!" threads on various forums...

 

BlueStrat,

 

Agree!

 

Everybody wants to be famous. Failing that, they'll be happy to just act famous, have a website that looks like they might be famous.

 

Sigh.

 

I also have a theory that an entire generation never really learned what music can be, and is happy with crap.

[GlennGalen]

 

The reality is live rock shows are going the way of CD's. I remember in the 80's my town had over 20 clubs that had rock bands every weekend that drew large crowds. Today, only about 6 of those venues still offer live guitar based music. Back then, Almost every 23 yr old I knew went to at least 15 rock shows a year, I would find it very hard to believe if that happens today.

 

 

 

Wow. I wonder what's happening with that. Could it just be your particular area? Or are all the kids sitting at home on the computer reading MySpace or FaceBook???

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/GlennGalen

[JBJ]

 

If people like it they will still buy it. If they still it, it doesnt mean they like it enough to buy it in the first place. Im sure it will make a dent, but to figure out how much that dent is, is very much a gray area. Besides, with online distribution your songs will get heard by more people... it may work itself out... But in the end none of us really, really know.

 

 

if they like it they will still buy it is an absolute load of {censored}e. if that was true then downloading and file sharing would be none existant.

 

why would you download or copy a cd you don't like?

 

if we do a gig and sell cd's after it, whats more likely to happen, everyone who wants a cd will shell out £10 of their beer money for the night on it. or one of them wil buy it and all their friends will go: hey man can you get me a copy of that?.....

[GlennGalen]

 

...if we do a gig and sell cd's after it, whats more likely to happen, everyone who wants a cd will shell out £10 of their beer money for the night on it. or one of them wil buy it and all their friends will go: hey man can you get me a copy of that?.....

 

 

JBJ,

 

Yes. You cannot compete with "free". Especially from people who don't have a lot of money, meaning the younger crowd.

 

I still think we can make money selling CDs to baby boomers...for another 5-7 years anyway...until even they get quite comfortable with copying CDs and passing them to friends and family.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/GlennGalen

[SPONGEBOB]

Sorry but IMHO live music is dead.

 

Many fine local bands nationwide can't get any gigs at all unless they will play free or pay to play,,, Crowds are a small percentage of what they were years ago, and are getting smaller... Guitar rock is dead.or at least is dying, unless you a guitarist and those are the only consmers of the genre...

 

I am a school bus driver and I know what kids these days listen to...

Modern pop and rap... Thats whats up for the forseeable future....

they won't switch to good guitar and small band music when they hit 21 believe me,,

 

Live rock in clubs is fading fast, ...I should know as it has been a major part of my life since the 70's... I still gig when I can get them, but most all the clubs I played are gone or have cut back on entertainment , and no longer use bands... the few that do book bands are paying lower and lower prices to an ever expanding group of good bands...Years ago, clubs competed for bands.. Today, bands compete for the few venues that are around, and will take very small bucks just to play... The future does NOT look good... Take it from an "old pro"...

As always, there are exceptions, some bands are doing ok because they can pack them in, and certain geographical areas [like much of Texas] still have vibrant live music "scenes"... that being said , a lot more bands are looking for work than actually booking work....bob

[GlennGalen]

SpongeBob,

 

This is sad to hear.

 

I think one reason might be that the rock music crowd is in their 40s and 50s, and they don't tend to go out as much.

 

The people who go out to clubs and bars are younger, single people. And they are not listening to live rock music. Or maybe ANY live music?

[cybersecretary]

here is one reason to NOT play covers

WTF

 

BY JOHN A. TORRES

FLORIDA TODAY

 

Six months after raising the curtain on their gourmet coffee shop in the beachside Indian Harbour Place shopping center, Laurie and Jim Hall decided to offer live music on Friday and Saturday nights.

 

The performers, normally duos, mainly covered songs written and made famous by other musicians. There was no cover charge, no pay for the musicians, no limit to how long patrons could sit on a couch with their coffee, playing chess and enjoying the music.

 

No problem.

 

Then a few months later, music industry giant ASCAP started calling and sending letters saying East Coast Coffee & Tea was in violation of copyright laws. The fee to continue the music was $400 a year.

 

"At the time, the shop was losing money, so we had to break it up into payments," said Laurie Hall. But the Halls paid, and the music continued.

 

Six months later, other music copyright companies began calling the Halls and demanding money. Most days there would be three or four phone calls from each company, Hall said. Finally, unable to afford the fees, she had to call most of her musicians -- those who did not play original music -- and tell them they would not be allowed to continue performing.

 

This aggressive -- but legal -- posture being taken by music licensing companies has the potential to unplug live music in many restaurants, bars and coffee shops in Brevard County.

 

It comes on the heels of a massive music industry crackdown during the past several years on illegal downloads from the Internet. Whether it's a professional recording taken from a Web site or an accordion player singing a Jimmy Buffet tune in a small venue, the industry is working to collect royalties for whoever wrote the songs.

 

"They have threatened to shut down my place," said Lou Andrus, owner of the popular beachside nightclub Lou's Blues.

[GlennGalen]

cybersecretary,

 

In general, I like the idea that as a songwriter, ASCAP will help me get my performance royalties.

 

But the system has a problem: the sampling process used to distribute the money makes most of the cash go to huge acts. They don't sample music at coffeehouses, do they? I think they still take the percentages off radio.

 

Maybe someone else here knows more about it.

[ZigZagWanderer]

 

Sorry but IMHO live music is dead.

 

 

I pretty much agree with this, too--or at least it will change so much as to be unrecognizeable. There have been many threads on the Backstage forum about how live music is suffering. The typical reasons are:

 

**More competition from the internet/movie rentals/video games/whatever. There are many more things to do on a Saturday night now than there were in 1970.

**Higher drinking ages and more heavily enforced DUI laws.

**Music forms that don't depend on a live show have become more popular, like hip hop and techno.

**The four or five person rock band with a few guitars and drum kit isn't new and exciting any more like it was in the '60s and '70s.

 

However, I think that live music will face another set of challenges--mainly higher gas and energy prices. How can a struggling band keep a van on the road with gas at $3/gallon? $3.50? $4? Touring will be drastically reduced. And rock clubs suck down an ungodly amount of power. What happens when elecricity prices double? Triple?

[JBJ]

 

here is one reason to NOT play covers WTF BY JOHN A. TORRES FLORIDA TODAY Six months after raising the curtain on their gourmet coffee shop in the beachside Indian Harbour Place shopping center, Laurie and Jim Hall decided to offer live music on Friday and Saturday nights. The performers, normally duos, mainly covered songs written and made famous by other musicians. There was no cover charge, no pay for the musicians, no limit to how long patrons could sit on a couch with their coffee, playing chess and enjoying the music. No problem. Then a few months later, music industry giant ASCAP started calling and sending letters saying East Coast Coffee & Tea was in violation of copyright laws. The fee to continue the music was $400 a year. "At the time, the shop was losing money, so we had to break it up into payments," said Laurie Hall. But the Halls paid, and the music continued. Six months later, other music copyright companies began calling the Halls and demanding money. Most days there would be three or four phone calls from each company, Hall said. Finally, unable to afford the fees, she had to call most of her musicians -- those who did not play original music -- and tell them they would not be allowed to continue performing. This aggressive -- but legal -- posture being taken by music licensing companies has the potential to unplug live music in many restaurants, bars and coffee shops in Brevard County. It comes on the heels of a massive music industry crackdown during the past several years on illegal downloads from the Internet. Whether it's a professional recording taken from a Web site or an accordion player singing a Jimmy Buffet tune in a small venue, the industry is working to collect royalties for whoever wrote the songs. "They have threatened to shut down my place," said Lou Andrus, owner of the popular beachside nightclub Lou's Blues.

 

 

 

 

1. they should have had a live music licence before they started hosting live music.

 

2. If they paid more than one licence they're idiots, assuming the story is totally true. as far as i know it's the PRS and not ascap that deal with live royalties.

[RobRoy]

 

Wow. I wonder what's happening with that. Could it just be your particular area? Or are all the kids sitting at home on the computer reading MySpace or FaceBook??? http://www.youtube.com/user/GlennGalen

 

 

In the Seattle suburbs, the opposite is happening.

 

The smoking ban has led to bars trying to come up with draws to get people in - Karaoke, to blues jams to live bands. It is definitely more common than it was.

[GlennGalen]

Rob,

 

Great news! Interesting.

[BlueStrat]

 

1. they should have had a live music licence before they started hosting live music. 2. If they paid more than one licence they're idiots, assuming the story is totally true. as far as i know it's the PRS and not ascap that deal with live royalties.

 

 

Did you mean PROs (performing rights organizations)? ASCAP, BMI and SESAC are all PROs, which serve as collecion agencies for songwriters and do indeed demand money from venues featuring cover bands, DJs, and juke boxes, and even ipods on house systems.

[Baldrick]

 

why would you download or copy a cd you don't like?

 

 

eeehh.. Because you have heard about the record and want to check it out and so you spend a few calories downloading it. You then listen to it for a while and find out you don't like it and it ends up collecting digital dust in your ever expanding collection of downloaded music.

 

The way I see this is like a scale. On the bottom of the scale are the songs you download and don't like and thus never listen to again. This is the equivalent of listening to a CD at the record store and not buying it. In my book that's ok. You checked it out and decided you didn't want it. On the top of the scale you have the downloads that you liked so much that you went out and bought the CD. The middle ground is full of downloads that you listen to once in a while and if you didn't have the chance to download them you would probably have bought some of them just to have them available in your collection. Not all of them, but a ceirtan part.

 

Every downloader has a ceirtan part of his MP3 collection that he would have bought if filesharing was not possible.

[jbutler1982]

"I also have a theory that an entire generation never really learned what music can be, and is happy with crap."

 

Do you think that your parents would have said this about your music growing up? Not trying to start an argument, just curious...

[GlennGalen]

"I also have a theory that an entire generation never really learned what music can be, and is happy with crap." Do you think that your parents would have said this about your music growing up? Not trying to start an argument, just curious...

 

Oh, I've certainly thought about that.

 

I was in a Beatles Era garage band in Chicago when I was 16; my Dad played played trumpet on weekends in a wedding band and had stacks of Big Band records that he played.

 

He used to tell me that what I was listening to (fuzz tone guitar stuff, etc.) was just noise to him. But he did like some of the Beatles stuff that had nice melodies.

 

I STILL say that popular music "devolved" in the early 90s through today. It became more amateurish on every level: melody, lyrics, musicianship.

 

THERE WERE, AND ARE, EXCEPTIONS. But I am talking about the "typical" song, the typical band you'd hear on Clear Channel Radio.

 

Oh boy, here come a flood of angry posts defending a favorite band or song.

 

SO let me say in advance: "You are right! That band/song is an exception!"