Gibson Les Paul Deluxe Restoration Project- HCEG Black Top!

[GreatDane]

very classy finish, indeed!

[Ryan Trevisol]

Well, after talking with my dad, we're very excited to do it for you.

I forgot to send you in PM the amount of time it would take us. The stripping and surface prep would probably take one to two good shop days. The finishing process will likely take 2 weeks, to allow time to cure between stages. This may take longer if we wind up replacing the binding. Finally, after the clear coats go on, it has to sit 2 weeks before the final buffing can begin. This takes about 2 days and can be followed by the final assembly, but putting a week in between buffing and assembly is something we STRONGLY recommend.

So you're looking at 5-6 weeks, I'd say.

However, we do have some concerns. We've worked on Wine Red Gibsons before, and the thing about Wine Red is that it's appears to be a wood dye, more like a stain than a color coat. We're concerned that we might not be able to get the red all the way out of the back, not without sanding to the point of changing the shape of the guitar.

How would you feel about the back being reddish, or a heavily tinted brown? In the pictures you've supplied thus far, the mahogany on THAT guitar is actually natural. It's very light. We may be able to stain it a darker brown, but it might not stand out as much as the pic above. More like the dark back goldtops.

The thing about this project is, in order to preserve the instrument as much as possible, we can't use chemical strippers. That would likely melt the binding and other plastics, not to mention, its just in general bad for set-neck guitars.

What we will do is, stain a piece of mahogany wine red (or a very close approximation, and then test different dyes on it to see what turns it brown. I'm thinking green, believe it or not. If you add green (or yellow with less blue), you can make a brownish color. But we'll try the whole pallete of wood dyes we have here and see what we can come up with.

But I could be wrong. Lacquer thinner and some light sanding might take it right off. Anyone have any experience with that?

In any event, the top should be just fine. We're confident that we can use pinstriping and tape to mask the binding, and if it bleeds through, we're prepared to replace the binding if that's what you want.

[Ratae Corieltauvorum]

^^^Told ya Great Dane

[DonK]

You could try that guy in the flame thread the other day - SimsCustomShop. He supposedly only takes about eight months to finish a body.

[reachjkh]

subscribed.

[GreatDane]

Originally Posted by Ryan Trevisol

Well, after talking with my dad, we're very excited to do it for you.

I forgot to send you in PM the amount of time it would take us. The stripping and surface prep would probably take one to two good shop days. The finishing process will likely take 2 weeks, to allow time to cure between stages. This may take longer if we wind up replacing the binding. Finally, after the clear coats go on, it has to sit 2 weeks before the final buffing can begin. This takes about 2 days and can be followed by the final assembly, but putting a week in between buffing and assembly is something we STRONGLY recommend.

So you're looking at 5-6 weeks, I'd say.

However, we do have some concerns. We've worked on Wine Red Gibsons before, and the thing about Wine Red is that it's appears to be a wood dye, more like a stain than a color coat. We're concerned that we might not be able to get the red all the way out of the back, not without sanding to the point of changing the shape of the guitar.

How would you feel about the back being reddish, or a heavily tinted brown? In the pictures you've supplied thus far, the mahogany on THAT guitar is actually natural. It's very light. We may be able to stain it a darker brown, but it might not stand out as much as the pic above. More like the dark back goldtops.

The thing about this project is, in order to preserve the instrument as much as possible, we can't use chemical strippers. That would likely melt the binding and other plastics, not to mention, its just in general bad for set-neck guitars.

What we will do is, stain a piece of mahogany wine red (or a very close approximation, and then test different dyes on it to see what turns it brown. I'm thinking green, believe it or not. If you add green (or yellow with less blue), you can make a brownish color. But we'll try the whole pallete of wood dyes we have here and see what we can come up with.

But I could be wrong. Lacquer thinner and some light sanding might take it right off. Anyone have any experience with that?

In any event, the top should be just fine. We're confident that we can use pinstriping and tape to mask the binding, and if it bleeds through, we're prepared to replace the binding if that's what you want.

thank you, Ryan ~I got your PM, and am still trying to work through the information and resulting cost. in the meantime, have you ever heard of using wood bleach to minimize or eliminate old dye when doing a refin? The Gibson finish is original, so I'm sure you could determine which bleach base to use by determining the type of dye that Gibson used in the early 80s.

http://antiquerestorers.com/Articles...ood_bleach.htm

anyone else heard of safely bleaching wood (in addition to stripping and sanding) to reduce or eliminate dye finishes? it's apparently somewhat common with antique finishers.

[GreatDane]

bump

[Ryan Trevisol]

I'll talk about it with dad, it could work, but it would probably lighten even the natural color of the mahogany. We'd at the very least have to stain it back brown (which isn't a problem). I'd hate for it to go pink . . .

[sxyryan]

I can't tell from those pictures...

Can you see the quality of the wood through the current finish? Particularly the back, because you want it to have a clear finish.

[GreatDane]

it's a pretty blah finish on there right now; pretty dark and not very interesting. i'll have to take a good look at it tomorrow to see what sort of figuring the back and sides have. the finish is somewhat transparent, but not enough to get a great look at the wood quality underneath.

[meandi]

Any chance that a sealer coat was applied before the colors?
This would have helped to assure uniformity in the color itself, simplifying their mfg. process.
If this was the case, then it should strip to clean wood easily.
GreatDane, you might grab a piece of 220 or so grit paper & sand a small area through the color to get an idea.

[mdog114]

 

Originally Posted by meandi

GreatDane, you might grab a piece of 220 or so grit paper & sand a small area through the color to get an idea.

 

That's what I would do.

[GreatDane]

Originally Posted by meandi

Any chance that a sealer coat was applied before the colors?
This would have helped to assure uniformity in the color itself, simplifying their mfg. process.
If this was the case, then it should strip to clean wood easily.
GreatDane, you might grab a piece of 220 or so grit paper & sand a small area through the color to get an idea.

here's what we've got~ i barely had to sand it before i hit straight maple on the neck. same with the mahogany body. i'm thinking sealer under the dye. what do you think? should clean up easy, IMO.









and here's some shots of the full back~ looks like i was wrong about the figuring. she's no custom shop model, but damn that's going to look pretty good with a nice honey-tinted clear coat.

[meandi]

taking a clean piece of paper, scuff the area where the color is gone.
If there's a sealer coat, this should give you a whiteish sanding dust on the paper...sand a bit deeper & you'll see the wood dust beginning to show on the paper.
Looks like there's still a bit of color in the deeper grain lines.
Hard to tell just from the photos...

[meandi]

p.s., might not even be a dye.
pigmented color can be cut with clear to provide translucent color coats.
From my show car days...this is one of the basics of the pearls & candy colors which are sprayed over silver, gold even white base coats for some of the mile deep looking 3d type finishes.

[GreatDane]

Originally Posted by meandi

taking a clean piece of paper, scuff the area where the color is gone.
If there's a sealer coat, this should give you a whiteish sanding dust on the paper...sand a bit deeper & you'll see the wood dust beginning to show on the paper.
Looks like there's still a bit of color in the deeper grain lines.
Hard to tell just from the photos...

i'll try for better pics tomorrow if we get some sun around here. was mostly rain today.

[GreatDane]

Originally Posted by meandi

p.s., might not even be a dye.
pigmented color can be cut with clear to provide translucent color coats.
From my show car days...this is one of the basics of the pearls & candy colors which are sprayed over silver, gold even white base coats for some of the mile deep looking 3d type finishes.

it's funny you say this; as i was looking over the exposed wood areas, i was thinking that the finish didn't appear to be behaving like a dye.

[meandi]

 

Originally Posted by GreatDane

it's funny you say this; as i was looking over the exposed wood areas, i was thinking that the finish didn't appear to be behaving like a dye.

 

If it's a dye, it should be in the wood...a pigmented finish would be on the wood, so to speak.

[axegrinder]

I will be watching this one closely. I have a very similar project in my queue, except I am going for a green top.

I bought the paint last week...this color:


On this axe:

[axegrinder]

BTW GreatDane I assume you made a typo above, but your neck looks mahogany. I could be crazy too.

Another 2 cents, but that looks like trans red over a sealer coat.

[GreatDane]

Originally Posted by axegrinder

BTW GreatDane I assume you made a typo above, but your neck looks mahogany. I could be crazy too.

Another 2 cents, but that looks like trans red over a sealer coat.

not a typo, but i could be off base. i thought the wood looked too light to be mahogany, and recall that LPs of this era (1981) were maple necks in mahogany bodies (my '79 Custom is this way), so i assumed this was a maple neck. i also don't have tuners on the guitar right now, and the wood in the routes sure looks like maple. who knows?

thank you for following along, Axe! i will be sending the guitar off to meandi a week from monday, and then the fun begins...

[GreatDane]

oh and Axe~ that's going to be a great green top! that color you've picked is sweet.

[meandi]

Originally Posted by GreatDane

not a typo, but i could be off base. i thought the wood looked too light to be mahogany, and recall that LPs of this era (1981) were maple necks in mahogany bodies (my '79 Custom is this way), so i assumed this was a maple neck. i also don't have tuners on the guitar right now, and the wood in the routes sure looks like maple. who knows?

thank you for following along, Axe! i will be sending the guitar off to meandi a week from monday, and then the fun begins...

I wondered at your statement about the neck being maple, as well...I had been under the impression that Gibson always used mahogany in their necks...didn't know they had ever used maple.
Learn something new every day, if you're lucky.

Went back & looked at your photos again & the grain on the neck does appear to be tighter than on the body.

[GreatDane]

here's a write-up on the Deluxe from wikipedia:

"The DeLuxe was among the "new" 1968 Les Pauls.[21] This model featured "mini-humbuckers", also known as "New York" humbuckers, and did not initially prove popular. The mini-humbucker pickup fit into the pre-carved P-90 pickup cavity using an adaptor ring developed by Gibson (actually just a cut-out P90 pickup cover) in order to use a supply of Epiphone mini-humbuckers left over from when Gibson moved Epiphone production to Japan. The DeLuxe was introduced in late 1968 and helped to standardize production among Gibson's USA-built Les Pauls. The first incarnation of the DeLuxe featured a one-piece body and three-piece neck in late 1968. The "pancake" body (thin layer of maple on top of two layers of Honduran mahogany) came later in 1969. In late 1969, a small "volute" was added. 1969 DeLuxe's feature the Gibson logo devoid of the dot over the "i" in Gibson. By late 1969/early 1970, the dot over the "i" had returned, plus a "Made In USA" stamp on the back of the headstock. By 1975, the neck construction was changed from mahogany to maple, until the early 1980s, when the construction was returned to mahogany. The body changed back to solid mahogany from the pancake design in late 1976 or early 1977. Interest in this particular Les Paul model was so low that in 1985, Gibson canceled the line. However, in 2005, the "DeLuxe" was reintroduced with more popularity due to its association with Pete Townshend."

so could this be one of the last maple-necked Deluxe's? cool!

[Ryan Trevisol]

That neck is mahogany. Mahogany has a variety of colors, from maple-blonde (My mother has an antique mahogany chest that is a similar color to alder), to dark like cherry, to brown like walnut.

But the grain pattern is unmistakable. That's Mahogany. Also, Dane, I returned your PM.

I'm glad to see it's not a dye.