Interested in opening a bar / live music venue

[mcsdude]

I'm interested in opening a small, dive-style bar that supports the local live music scene but have never owned a bar before. Anyone here ever owned or managed such a place?

 

Not counting real estate, approx how much money do you think one would be looking at for this sort of business?

[SkullCap]

Never personally owned, but have helped open and worked for new venues.

You're gonna need at least $100k. There's so much involved. More than just opening up the place. Depending on what state you're in also matters. What are your alcohol laws? Here in VA you have to sell a certain amount of food before you can get your liquor license. so you need a kitchen, staff, food, decor, insurance, sound system, the list goes on and on and on....get a Lawyer.

[ermghoti II]

I was thinking $2-300k. You'll lose money for at least a year, so you'll need savings to live off of.

[SkullCap]

 

I was thinking $2-300k. You'll lose money for at least a year, so you'll need savings to live off of.

 

 

yeah, that's probably more realistic.

[ZigZagWanderer]

The only idea I would suggest would be for you to be a 'first gig' type of place--meaning that you focus on bands that are just starting out. Most bands have a higher draw at their first show than they will ever have again. I would tap into that market, and forget about trying to build up your venue to compete for established bands. I know many places who have that strategy, and they are still in business and doing well--while many others who wanted to become bigger name venues have fallen by the wayside.

[daddymack]

Things you need to look at: (depending on the state)

Liquor license requirements and fees

Cabaret license requirements and fees

Insurance, particularly liability

Real Estate prices and taxes

Find a reputable liquor distributor

Plan to invest in inventory (booze)

Getting an ASCAP/BMI agreement

The rest is much like any other small business

 

Good luck!!!

[Bobsax]

How did it work out MCSdude?

I'm surprised nobody said "find a bar with a stage that's not being used or has a failing scene and take over the booking and/or management."

Then after you've made a lot of connections and "learned the ropes", open your own bar.

[Fernabulax]

i wanted to open a bar, but wound up opening a coffeehouse, instead - much less $ to operate. had singer songwriters thur - sun who worked for the door and had to bring someone along to collect. i ordered pastries from a local cook and she'd drop off and maintain the display - i hired college girls, mostly, to run the shop - they attract customers better and, despite constant bitching, do a really good job. i paid minimum wage (florida) and they kept all the pooled tips per shift. i sold it at a modest profit 18 months after opening.

 

don't want to open another, though - it's a fulltime job.

[Bobsax]

"... And That's The Rest Of The Story"

____ Paul Harvey

-------thanks Fernabulax

[germs]

I've had a few connections go from the GM or bartending side to attempting to own/operate an establishment. Aside from the legal things people have already mentioned, here's what I've learned:

 

1. It takes a lot of money. You'll probably be living there (if you're single).

 

2. It takes all of your personal time.

 

3. It takes more effort than just, being in a band - let's say...

 

4. You NEED to be ruthless and tough. You will attract a customer base that will be drinking and God only knows what else...DO NOT show them weakness when it comes to your establishment.

 

5. Be FLEXIBLE when it comes to booking. Book all types of live music, be careful not to bill yourself into a niche.

 

6. With 5 in mind, DO NOT under ANY circumstance designate a "hip-hop" or "DJ" night. This will KILL any potential you have as a live venue among the other genres...seen it happen too often. It's a dangerous and slippery slope to start a "Saturday College Nite feat. Local DJ" to boost sales. Before you know it, you'll be booking bands on Tuesdays only...

 

7. Be versatile with what you offer. Smaller establishments actually have more freedom to experiment with what works.

 

That's my best advice. Good luck, sir. You're braver than me if you do it.

[AaronF]

I helped my friend open a bar. It wasn't easy work for him. Getting a liquor license in Missouri basically consists of paying off a ton of people and rubbing some legs. That is a job in itself. Then actually getting the place up to code, getting some of the most trivial things you can think of so that you can legally run a bar. Getting good staff (which is hard in the bar industry). Hiring and paying bands (which for you shouldn't be much of a problem, I would just give them a percentage of cover charges). There is a cool place like what you are describing around here, but they are always struggling because the hippies that go to watch music never buy drinks, they drink water all night.

 

 

It's a hard business, but if you can make it, that would be a sweet setup.

[Music Calgary]

M-O-N-E-Y T-R-A-P.

 

Best way to create a bar worth one million dollars is to start with ten million.

[sabriel9v]

6. With 5 in mind, DO NOT under ANY circumstance designate a "hip-hop" or "DJ" night. This will KILL any potential you have as a live venue among the other genres...seen it happen too often. It's a dangerous and slippery slope to start a "Saturday College Nite feat. Local DJ" to boost sales. Before you know it, you'll be booking bands on Tuesdays only...

 

If he wants to stay in business, it might be smart to have "Saturday College Nites" maybe once a month. Those type of activities usually keep the lights and water running in a venue longer than Random Band X, who brings 10 friends to watch them play an empty venue on a Tuesday night. Oh and did I mention that 5 of those friends don't even drink

[yoo hee]

to open a bar you have to really invest a large amount.. you have to make some promotions and endorsements to make it known.. sponsoring a gig is a big help. goodluck!

[primeelite]

I have seen a lot of these places popping up in all types of areas. To be honest even the ones in big music scenes don't seem to do real well. A lot are "hot" for awhile and all the local bands want to play it but once they initial buzz dies down a lot of bands then aren't as excited to play and a few will start wanting money to cover their expenses and then others who you had to pay before start wanting more. The worst part I have seen though is just the place being able to keep its liquor license and not get in trouble too much with fights inside the establishment etc. It can be successful but many of the successful places that I have seen are the ones that are larger. Many people start the hole in the wall places and no matter how packed the place is can't seem to turn a profit.

[Rob18]

We invested $25,000 in ours in 1998 in Ottawa, Canada.

I'm Vegetarian Chicken, she's Life Insurance

[sabriel9v]

 

The worst part I have seen though is just the place being able to keep its liquor license and not get in trouble too much with fights inside the establishment etc.

 

 

Funny thing is, those two things become prime objectives within any bar. Keep the liquor license intact and the fights out in the streets...its really not that bad. The worst part is when you lose your liquor license and people come to your venue just to start fights and other random acts of chaos.

[germs]

If he wants to stay in business, it might be smart to have "Saturday College Nites" maybe once a month. Those type of activities usually keep the lights and water running in a venue longer than Random Band X, who brings 10 friends to watch them play an empty venue on a Tuesday night. Oh and did I mention that 5 of those friends don't even drink

 

I would agree to the "College Nite" on an off night, but that's it.

 

If you're intending to open a "Live Music Venue", then do it. I understand the appeal of paying the bills (being in a cover band myself), but there are some priciples you would need to stick to as an owner.

 

The only pitfall I would see is if you get yourself pigeonholed as a "Metal Bar" or a "Hip Hop Club". But honestly, there are more than a few places in my downtown area that can consistently book 6 nights a week. The secret to their success is that they created a mobile divider that can cut the club in half. They operate two bars during the weekend and service half the club for smaller sets during the week.

 

I'm just saying it can be done.

[Redsand187]

Rather then a DJ night, I've seen great success from a venue that didn't want to go that route, but still wanted to pay it's bills. They went with regional Tribute Bands. They could easily pack the place with Alice in Chains, Metallica, Led Zepplin, Def Leppard, Guns N Roses', tribute bands with little advertisement costs, they use their Myspace extensively. They are also able to keep the cover at or below 10 dollars.

 

This gets butts in the door. All of those butts are interested in LIVE MUSIC, so they are able to promote some of there other shows and get a decent turn out.

[sabriel9v]

 

Rather then a DJ night, I've seen great success from a venue that didn't want to go that route, but still wanted to pay it's bills. They went with regional Tribute Bands. They could easily pack the place with Alice in Chains, Metallica, Led Zepplin, Def Leppard, Guns N Roses', tribute bands with little advertisement costs, they use their Myspace extensively. They are also able to keep the cover at or below 10 dollars. This gets butts in the door. All of those butts are interested in LIVE MUSIC, so they are able to promote some of there other shows and get a decent turn out.

 

 

IMO having regional tribute bands in a small hole in a wall venue instead of djs is still "selling out." You're still veering off course from your original business plan/modus operandi of showcasing local music. If you have a dj, at least you can hire someone like a Diplo or Girl Talk who's popular within the indie realm. DJs are perfectly capable of creating the hype and buzz of a live show. Tribute bands are for the little frat kids and sorostitutes who want to stumble around drunk in your venue. Once again, I feel that hiring those types of groups would be a once a month type of deal.

[Music Calgary]

 

IMO having regional tribute bands in a small hole in a wall venue instead of djs is still "selling out." You're still veering off course from your original business plan/modus operandi of showcasing local music.

 

 

Showcasing local music as a core focus is a recipe for Chapter 11 but as a partial component of overall focus it can really be a great thing.

[sabriel9v]

 

Showcasing local music as a core focus is a recipe for Chapter 11 but as a partial component of overall focus it can really be a great thing.

 

 

This is true, but read what the OP said. He wants to showcase local music and that's his mission statement.

[AaronF]

 

This is true, but read what the OP said. He wants to showcase local music and that's his mission statement.

 

 

Mission statements need to be edited and revised from time to time. The place around here that seems to be quite similar to what the OP described have to schedule some bigger drawing acts, like tribute bands, because in order to showcase live music, they need to pay the bills. A lot of times it is hard to ONLY showcase local music and pay the bills, especially when you are starting up.

[Music Calgary]

 

Mission statements need to be edited and revised from time to time. The place around here that seems to be quite similar to what the OP described have to schedule some bigger drawing acts, like tribute bands, because in order to showcase live music, they need to pay the bills. A lot of times it is hard to ONLY showcase local music and pay the bills, especially when you are starting up.

 

 

Exactly, there's a sweet spot in there somewhere...

[sabriel9v]

 

Mission statements need to be edited and revised from time to time. The place around here that seems to be quite similar to what the OP described have to schedule some bigger drawing acts, like tribute bands, because in order to showcase live music, they need to pay the bills. A lot of times it is hard to ONLY showcase local music and pay the bills, especially when you are starting up.

 

 

But don't you think it's up to OP as to when he feels it's necessary to edit and revise his mission statement. We're going off the facts that he's giving us, anything else is embellishment on our behalf.