Members Hanisch Posted April 20, 2003 Members Share Posted April 20, 2003 Hey! First of all, I'm really familiar with all the basics of tuning, but I'm not satisfied with the results. Do you know any tips or information for pros how to tune the drums? Any site? thanks!!!byemichael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HulkBlood01 Posted April 20, 2003 Members Share Posted April 20, 2003 I'm off to bed...but check this out: The Drum Tuning Bible , care of P. Sound. Lots of info to take in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hanisch Posted April 20, 2003 Author Members Share Posted April 20, 2003 ; ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ulank Posted April 20, 2003 Members Share Posted April 20, 2003 Yup, we could all post here, but with that Bible, why waste our time! It's a very good source IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Nick Posted April 20, 2003 Members Share Posted April 20, 2003 I've given up on tuning. I sit with my drums for hours on end trying to tune them, and I am never happy with how they sound. I'll tap each lug trying to listen to it's overtone and compare it to the overtones of the other lugs, trying to evenly tune the head...and I've come to the conclusion that I can NOT do it. The only things I can tune are my bass drum and my snare; my toms sound like {censored}. Drummers are always trying to get that 'perfect' sound from their drums, and I can't even achieve a decent one, even after sitting with the same drum for literally 2 or 3 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fafnir777 Posted April 21, 2003 Members Share Posted April 21, 2003 Hi Nick, What kind of sound are your after, first of all? Tell me what are your tom sizes, and what kind of heads do you have on them? Maybe I can help walk you through it. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Nick Posted April 21, 2003 Members Share Posted April 21, 2003 I have Pearl Export Selects. The tom sizes are (diameter X depth) 10X8, 13X11, and 16X16. The floor tom isn't really an issue, it's the 2 rack toms that are frustrating me. Now it's kind of hard to describe the sound I want, but I'll try. I want my toms to be very deep and resonant. When I play at gigs, I play un-mic'ed. So, I need the toms to really be able to project. But, I still want to tune them low and give them that 'deep' sound. A big problem is that I have G2's on them, so it's hard to get them to resonate that much, especially if I tune them low. I like G2s though because they're very durable, and they sound good to me behind the set. However, they sound like {censored} to the audience, especially if I want to tune them low. I have Pearl reso heads on the bottom that I'm looking to replace soon. So, I guess the problem goes beyond just that I suck badly at tuning, but also that I can't figure out what the hell I want in a drum sound. I want to get G1s because I know that they'll really project and sound nice for shows, but they're not going to last that long. The G2s last forever it seems, but they sound terrible at the shows. Ughh!! Fafnir, thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members relva Posted April 21, 2003 Members Share Posted April 21, 2003 i've got exports, and in the big-o sizes, so my kits a bit different, but here's my story:Had stock heads for almost a year-practiced tuning A LOT to get a good sound out of em. (good=poor, but good for what they normally sound like) So I've become better than average for tuning. (I hope.)I then bought coated G2's and clear G1's for resonant at once, and that made it extremely easy for tuning.I noticed at that point that all of a sudden my toms could have about 300% more resonance and had a range about 20 times greater than before. Yes the G2's aren't the best for resonance, but its your stock resonant heads that are hurtin you more. If you put G1's on the res. I bet you'd be able to get the sound you want-and still keep your G2's on top for durability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fafnir777 Posted April 21, 2003 Members Share Posted April 21, 2003 Originally posted by Nick I have Pearl Export Selects. The tom sizes are (diameter X depth) 10X8, 13X11, and 16X16. The floor tom isn't really an issue, it's the 2 rack toms that are frustrating me. Now it's kind of hard to describe the sound I want, but I'll try. I want my toms to be very deep and resonant. When I play at gigs, I play un-mic'ed. So, I need the toms to really be able to project. But, I still want to tune them low and give them that 'deep' sound. A big problem is that I have G2's on them, so it's hard to get them to resonate that much, especially if I tune them low. I like G2s though because they're very durable, and they sound good to me behind the set. However, they sound like {censored} to the audience, especially if I want to tune them low. I have Pearl reso heads on the bottom that I'm looking to replace soon. So, I guess the problem goes beyond just that I suck badly at tuning, but also that I can't figure out what the hell I want in a drum sound. I want to get G1s because I know that they'll really project and sound nice for shows, but they're not going to last that long. The G2s last forever it seems, but they sound terrible at the shows. Ughh!! Fafnir, thanks in advance. I know that everyone will jump on me for this one, but let me give you a piece of advice: Buy an Evans Torque key. This will allow you to "get in the ballpark", so to speak. The problem to me, is that...no matter how you tune your drums, that 13" isn't going to sound like a 12"x15" (i.e., Dave Grohl's mounted tom is a 15") There are two things that you have to keep in mind: #1. What you hear beind the kit isn't necessarily what the audience hears.#2. As you get farther away from the drums, they appear to be lower in pitch-because the lower pitch waves travel farther. Now, what I would suggest (aside from a new set of heads all the way around), is that you tune the bottom head higher in pitch. If the bootom head is lower in pitch (looser) than the top head, you'll get a decent amount of sustain, but the drums will sound, as I can best describe it, "Flabby"...they won't be as solid sounding.If you tune the bottom heads tighter than the batter heads, the drums will ring a little more, and have a better defined and "punchier" sound.The key is getting a higher pitch that resonates WITH the batter head. So, when I use the torque key I will use either setting 2 on the batter and 4 on the resonant, or setting 4 on the batter, and setting 8 on the resonant.I have also had good results with 4 on batter and 4 on rwesonants. Then, once you have found what your drums will sound like when they are in tune.....then learn to tune them with a standard drumkey.Your problem is that you haven't had enough experience tuning, so that you're not sure exactly what your drums are capable of....and I'll assure you that your kit can sound good.Practice makes perfect, and tuning is no exception to that rule. Btw, the above settings with the resonant heads tuned higher, will give you somewhat of a "Tympani" type of drumsound. My theory on tuning is this: Tune the batters heads to the same approximate tension, and tune the resonant to an approximate uniform tension, and let the actual sizes of the shells dictate what the pitch is going to be, and no matter what it is, the kit will sound good as a whole. Think about it this way:Guitar and bass strings; they are under the same general amount of tension, but the different thicknesses of the strings defines the pitch. If money is an option, I would say go for the heads that are more durable. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chabo Posted April 22, 2003 Members Share Posted April 22, 2003 Instead of the Evans Torque Key, another option is a Drumdial, or Tama's Tension Watch. They all work, but IMO the dial and Tension Watch work better because consistant lug tension does not in any way always correspond with consistant head tension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Nick Posted April 22, 2003 Members Share Posted April 22, 2003 Relva and Fafnir...you just saved my life. I printed out both of your posts, and I'm going to get the Evans Torque key. I had thought about buying that before, but I kind of thought it was 'cheating'...you know? I'm still debating whether or not to keep the G2s or get the G1s. I will definitely get the G1 resonants to replace the {censored}ty stock reso heads. Thanks for the advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members muddygumbo Posted April 22, 2003 Members Share Posted April 22, 2003 I concur with Chabo. A torque key only tells you how tight a particular lug is. It has very little relation to the tightness of other lugs. I'm sure all of us have had a drum where one lug was harder to turn than another. I think the Drum Dial is the better of these kinds of devices since it measures head tension at a particular spot. It too has its issues and I actually do a final fine-tune by ear when I use one, but I still think it gives better results. Caution, free advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fafnir777 Posted April 22, 2003 Members Share Posted April 22, 2003 Originally posted by muddygumbo I concur with Chabo. A torque key only tells you how tight a particular lug is. It has very little relation to the tightness of other lugs. I'm sure all of us have had a drum where one lug was harder to turn than another. I think the Drum Dial is the better of these kinds of devices since it measures head tension at a particular spot. It too has its issues and I actually do a final fine-tune by ear when I use one, but I still think it gives better results. Caution, free advice. I disagree for this simple reason, I've used the torque key since it came out, and so far-it's been relatively accurate. The question is, is it worth the price difference for the drumdials? The Evans torque key is under $20 while, I haven't seen a drumdial for under $60. Using either one, you would still have to fine tune by ear, so I don't see the point in kicking out the $40 for the dials. To be quite honest, on my own kit-I found the torque key to be very accurate. ...I can tune using it, and I don't HAVE to fine tune, it's close enough that nobody would notice but me. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Nick Posted April 22, 2003 Members Share Posted April 22, 2003 True, the DrumDial is probably better, but it also costs about $60 more - money that I don't have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members P.Sound Posted April 22, 2003 Members Share Posted April 22, 2003 Originally posted by Nick Relva and Fafnir...you just saved my life. I printed out both of your posts, and I'm going to get the Evans Torque key. I had thought about buying that before, but I kind of thought it was 'cheating'...you know? I'm still debating whether or not to keep the G2s or get the G1s. I will definitely get the G1 resonants to replace the {censored}ty stock reso heads. Thanks for the advice. While I have obviously written a whole lot on this subject, the use of the tension device, whichever one you choose, can be a good beginning in this case. I don't know if I'd consider it a "life saver", but I've stated on many occassions that the use of the device is great to quickly get the head in the ball park. From there (provided you do achieve some acceptable sound) you really need to tweak the lugs up and down just a bit to see how it all effects the tone. Probably the best observation is the one where it is suggested you just have little for experience. You just have to do it, over, and over and over and over to get good and fast at it and know what to expect. All the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chabo Posted April 22, 2003 Members Share Posted April 22, 2003 Yes, tuning by ear is definately the best. However, I find this type of product to be especially good when dealing with high-volume areas. Ever had to change a head at a show? Can't really tune by ear. I've also changed heads late at night with my parents in the next room sleeping. (it had to be done for the next day, and I didn't feel like going to bed ) And especially on my snare drum (the drum that's hardest to tune), I find that lugs have inconsistant tension. One lug I have to really pull to make it turn, the next one over I barely have to turn. Now this also says something about the ease with which each lug goes out of tune, but whatever. With a torque key my snare would definately not be tuned properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fafnir777 Posted April 22, 2003 Members Share Posted April 22, 2003 Originally posted by Chabo And especially on my snare drum (the drum that's hardest to tune), I find that lugs have inconsistant tension. One lug I have to really pull to make it turn, the next one over I barely have to turn. Now this also says something about the ease with which each lug goes out of tune, but whatever. With a torque key my snare would definately not be tuned properly. AHHHH! There's the difference! All of my lugs tension rods turn smoothly without any "binding" of any type, so that in itself may be why I've had such good success with the Evan's Torque Key. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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