Members smartinez1984 Posted April 13, 2004 Members Share Posted April 13, 2004 Anyone else other than me ever feel that there are some drummers who over-play the cymbals? Seems that there are some who feel that they have to strike a cymbal after every line in a song almost as if compelled to do so by some weird reason... Is there a do's-n-don't of proper cymbal ettiquette (for lack of a better word at this moment) or is it all a matter of taste? Thanks! -Samson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members psycht Posted April 13, 2004 Members Share Posted April 13, 2004 Originally posted by smartinez1984 Is there a do's-n-don't of proper cymbal ettiquette (for lack of a better word at this moment) or is it all a matter of taste? it all depends on who's playing. Yes there can be too much, but its all subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zaragemca Posted April 13, 2004 Members Share Posted April 13, 2004 There are about seven differents ways to interact with the cymbals(dependig on how and where you beat it),and also the dynamics could be controlled by what it is used like, the Type of Cymbal, by using Mallets,sticks,Rods,Brush,hands,etc.Initially the Cymbals were used as the time keeper for the drummer,and to finish the fill in on bridges,but with the time, specially in Jazz and Rock music, it have been over used, forcing the rest of the Band members to play louder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ulank Posted April 13, 2004 Members Share Posted April 13, 2004 Originally posted by smartinez1984 Anyone else other than me ever feel that there are some drummers who over-play the cymbals? Seems that there are some who feel that they have to strike a cymbal after every line in a song almost as if compelled to do so by some weird reason...Is there a do's-n-don't of proper cymbal ettiquette (for lack of a better word at this moment) or is it all a matter of taste?Thanks!-Samson All music boils down to taste in the end and everyone likes the taste of different things, so.... I guess one thing to think about is there isn't one way to hit/use a cymbal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ulank Posted April 13, 2004 Members Share Posted April 13, 2004 Oh snap!!! Zaragumby entered my body!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ShishKaboom! Posted April 13, 2004 Members Share Posted April 13, 2004 Ewww:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stapes2260 Posted April 13, 2004 Members Share Posted April 13, 2004 Originally posted by zaragemca There are about seven differents ways to interact with the cymbals(dependig on how and where you beat it),and also the dynamics could be controlled by what it is used like, the Type of Cymbal, by using Mallets,sticks,Rods,Brush,hands,etc.Initially the Cymbals were used as the time keeper for the drummer,and to finish the fill in on bridges,but with the time, specially in Jazz and Rock music, it have been over used, forcing the rest of the Band members to play louder. i love how you try to turn every post into an unsubstantiated history lesson. Anyway, I guess it's more or less personal taste in this day and age. I for one like the sound of drums more than cymbals, so i tend to lay off the cymbals. I think the music tends to lose its dramatic effect and its climax when the there's a constant barrage of cymbals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members smartinez1984 Posted April 13, 2004 Author Members Share Posted April 13, 2004 Originally posted by stapes2260 i love how you try to turn every post into an unsubstantiated history lesson. Anyway, I guess it's more or less personal taste in this day and age. I for one like the sound of drums more than cymbals, so i tend to lay off the cymbals. I think the music tends to lose its dramatic effect and its climax when the there's a constant barrage of cymbals. My feelings exactly, which is why I asked the question in the first place. I was just wondering if there are patterns that come into play depending on the type of music. I get this feeling that cymbals should indicate something, sort of like puncuation. Maybe the end of a line, a verse, or leading into something... I don't know, I just feel like there should be less. Now to relay this to my drummer which, interestingly enough, happens to be my son. He's just learning but he's got tremendous talent. He just has to learn the nuances of dynamics, flavors, etc. thanks! -Samson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ShishKaboom! Posted April 13, 2004 Members Share Posted April 13, 2004 Cymbals 101, Keep time on your hats,play your ride to stretch out the little used muscles on your left side that get all bunched up when you play ur hats,start every verse with your crash and end every verse with a swoosh of your hats. jk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JSimms Posted April 13, 2004 Members Share Posted April 13, 2004 Originally posted by ShishKaboom! Cymbals 101, Keep time on your hats,play your ride to stretch out the little used muscles on your left side that get all bunched up when you play ur hats,start every verse with your crash and end every verse with a swoosh of your hats. jk LOL +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Old Steve Posted April 13, 2004 Members Share Posted April 13, 2004 Originally posted by ShishKaboom! Cymbals 101, Keep time on your hats,play your ride to stretch out the little used muscles on your left side that get all bunched up when you play ur hats,start every verse with your crash and end every verse with a swoosh of your hats. jk Sounds good to me. Then again, I like the variety of cymbal sounds out there...fast "pahh" sounding splashes, big loud chinas, the dozen or so sounds a good jazz dude can coax out of a ride, the millions of sounds you can get from hi-hats.... I think some guys who played a lot of cymbals tastefully have ruined it for everyone else. Stewart Copeland was a whiz on his hi-hats, and used splashes and other odd bells and stuff a whole lot, but it sounded good. Now, a lesser player who's been influenced by that stuff tries to do the same thing, but does it unmusically, and it's comes off as overplaying. So I guess another rule of thumb is, if you're going to play a lot of cymbal stuff, bring a lot of different cymbals and/or know how to get different sounds out of the cymbals you've got. Hitting the same 17" crash the same way every 4 measures is tedious stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ShishKaboom! Posted April 13, 2004 Members Share Posted April 13, 2004 don't start trying to tempt me with bright shiny things,I have bad G.A.S as it is:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sysera Posted April 13, 2004 Members Share Posted April 13, 2004 Originally posted by ShishKaboom! don't start trying to tempt me with bright shiny things,I have bad G.A.S as it is:D When I first had a drum kit, I only had hi-hats. It was probably a good thing too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 2FunkyInHere Posted April 14, 2004 Members Share Posted April 14, 2004 I wouldnt recommend choking your cymbals a lot. It just sounds like a blast from the past, when drummers spent their money on 2 things besides drums: spandex and hairspray... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRuM Posted April 14, 2004 Members Share Posted April 14, 2004 There's no rules as such, but yes, cymbal crashes and drum fills are mostly punctuation. Depends on the song, the energy/style of the band, and how you want to build the song. Tell your son to listen to as many records as he can of the style of music he plays and ask him to pay attention to how many times crashes are hit througout any song, and where and when. It really just comes down to experience, and the more he plays, he'll develop that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rca Posted April 14, 2004 Members Share Posted April 14, 2004 Originally posted by smartinez1984 Anyone else other than me ever feel that there are some drummers who over-play the cymbals? Seems that there are some who feel that they have to strike a cymbal after every line in a song almost as if compelled to do so by some weird reason...Is there a do's-n-don't of proper cymbal ettiquette (for lack of a better word at this moment) or is it all a matter of taste? One hit per line is overplaying? Oh you must mean those crashy thingies. What would the world be like if we all played the same way? What if the Who and the Beatles had traded drumers? As long as we all play for the song, there are no other rules. Well maybe one other rule--avoid train wrecks. One crash per phrase (at the end no less) gets pretty boring after a while. But then some music needs less crashes than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stapes2260 Posted April 14, 2004 Members Share Posted April 14, 2004 Originally posted by 2FunkyInHere I wouldnt recommend choking your cymbals a lot. It just sounds like a blast from the past, when drummers spent their money on 2 things besides drums: spandex and hairspray... man you really don't like 80s rock do you? From the looks of you on the video you posted, I don't think you were even alive during that era. I'm almost 23 and I barely remember much of it. But i do remember the first time i ever heard Appetite for Destruction - i played that tape till the damn thing wore out. I wouldn't be so down on the 80s if i were you, there were a lot of great drummers who came out of the "glam" scene. Tommy lee, tommy aldridge, randy castillo, and cozy powell were all awesome rock drummers. PS. Buddy Rich and Louie Bellson used more cymbal chokes than any "hair band" drummer could have imagined Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DarthWader Posted April 14, 2004 Members Share Posted April 14, 2004 Originally posted by stapes2260 But i do remember the first time i ever heard Appetite for Destruction - i played that tape till the damn thing wore out. Tommy Lee...awesome rock drummer. Appetite is an incredible album, and I love Tommy Lee. What confused me about Funky's post was the connection between cymbal-choking and the 80s... huh? Wade confused... I thought everyone choked their cymbals when they didn't want 'em to keep ringing. EIGHTIES MUSIC RULES!!!! m/ Wade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Aunt Flo Posted April 15, 2004 Members Share Posted April 15, 2004 "Jazz drumming is about 80% cymbals and 20% everything else." -Ed Shaughnessy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members smartinez1984 Posted April 15, 2004 Author Members Share Posted April 15, 2004 I've been listening to different music over the last couple of days and paying close attention to cymbal usage and I noticed something; it's not just the actual number of cymbal hits that really makes a difference but also the hardness of the strikes. You can hear some very subtle hits that are used many times but then you'll hear some that simply pound the cymbals yet only do so a few times. Different true grooves (i.e. jazz, rock, funk, etc.) all use the same general foundation and it seems that cymbal usage DOES fall into a pattern of sort depending on your style. There is some overkill but it seems to be mostly at the hands of newbies or amateurs. Most professionals seem to "know" how and when to use the cymbals. But, like someone mentioned before, for my son I expect that will come with more experience. -Samson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ulank Posted April 15, 2004 Members Share Posted April 15, 2004 Originally posted by smartinez1984 I've been listening to different music over the last couple of days and paying close attention to cymbal usage and I noticed something; it's not just the actual number of cymbal hits that really makes a difference but also the hardness of the strikes. You can hear some very subtle hits that are used many times but then you'll hear some that simply pound the cymbals yet only do so a few times.Hell yeah, it's called dynamics. There's no one way to hit a cymbal. You can tap it with the tip through a phrase or whale on it at the end of a phrase, use the bell, ride on it with the shoulder of the stick, etc. Different true grooves (i.e. jazz, rock, funk, etc.) all use the same general foundation and it seems that cymbal usage DOES fall into a pattern of sort depending on your style. There is some overkill but it seems to be mostly at the hands of newbies or amateurs. Most professionals seem to "know" how and when to use the cymbals.IMO, in general, a drummer can think of his sound for particular parts as being "wet" vs. "dry" or "tight" vs. "open" The effects of these sounds are mostly the result of how you use your cymbals. A nice closed hat and a solid groove is going to sound more "dry" and "tight". Open up the hat, or ride on a crash and suddenly things open up and sound "wetter." As I'm writing parts I try to imagine where a "dry" sound might work better than a "wet" sound and vice versa. Or maybe the part needs to be mostly dry, with a few mild accents on the cymbals. I think a drummer has to consider this as he understands how his playing will impact the overall mix and mood of the song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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