NYC or Nashville? Where should I move?

[MatanP]

I think that to sum up this post, to be a successful musician there is a very specific recipe, that only few manage to find..

 

this resipe should have in it: skills, originality, a saying, a saying that will suite to our time,alot of luck- a luck to be at the right place, at the right time, meet the right people, give them your right song, alot other.

 

To all that add charisma, performance skills and good looks wan't hurt.

 

 

Hard, ha?

Don't give up. I'm not going to...

[buzzcut]

Originally posted by MatanP I think that to sum up this post, to be a successful musician there is a very specific recipe, that only few manage to find.. this resipe should have in it: skills, originality, a saying, a saying that will suite to our time,alot of luck- a luck to be at the right place, at the right time, meet the right people, give them your right song, alot other. To all that add charisma, performance skills and good looks wan't hurt. Hard, ha? Don't give up. I'm not going to...

 

That's the beauty of being a songwriter. You don't have to be pretty or even sing well. You can hire demo singers for the latter. You still have to write fantastic songs and pretty much do the rest of what you said but at least you get to take two of the variables out of the equation.

 

Plus, you don't have to tour and if you get a few big hits, you'll make more money in the long run than all except the most popular performers.

[Gregg Hall]

 

Originally posted by BlueStrat I believe luck is about 70% of it. How else do you explain the extremely low percentage of great players/songwriters/entertainers who 'make it'?

 

 

Your music is the product you sell. I believe the quality of your product has to count for something. I disagree when you say we have alot of untalented songwriters and players in the mainstream. At the same time I do believe we have ALOT of horrible singers in the mainstream.

[BlueStrat]

Originally posted by Gregg Hall I disagree when you say we have alot of untalented songwriters and players in the mainstream.

 

That's fine, disagree all you like. I didn't say we had a lot of untalented singers and writers in the mainstream at all. I said the majority of really talented ones don't get signed or make it, and that talent isn't necessarily a qualification for getting signed. For every talented writer, player or singer who 'makes it', there are a thousand who are equally if not more talented who don't. The deciding factors often have nothing to do with talent, and may focus on looks, image, age, marketability, or whether the producer likes you. Or it may have nothing to do with you at all; perhaps the guy making the decision had a {censored}ty day and wants to take it out on someone and you happen to be the guy in front of him.

 

But speaking of bad writers/players, please explain Jack Johnson and George Thorogood.

[Scafeets]

 

Originally posted by donmak I have decided I am going to move and go "fishing where the fish are" I have found a few good articles online about the pros and cons of different cities for songwriters like this one: Differences between Songwriting in Nashville and NYC Does anyone have any good suggestions on where to go to start making industry connections? I have a few in many different places, LA, NYC, Austin, and Nashville - but where should I go for the essential face-to-face contact? Thanks in advance for your advice. Don

 

 

Hi Don:

 

I've lived and worked in both NYC and Nashville, so here's my 2 cents...

 

If you want to be a professional songwriter and you like to collaborate, Nashville is the place to be. There's a great community of writers and, unlike the musicians, who tend to stick together and not welcome new people, the writers are a pretty open bunch. It's not just country, but it's mostly country.

 

If you're looking to do jingles and other on-demand kinds of music, NYC is the place.

 

Neither place is very welcoming to the singer/songwriter/performer type, and I think that's what BlueStrat was talking about. IF you want to make your mark as a performer, I'd keep away from NY, LA and Nashville and try to create a buzz somewhere that you feel is, stylistically, in synch with your own thing.

[BlueStrat]

Well, once again, as usual, Scaf manages to say in a few paragraphs what it took me to say (not very well, either) in about a half dozen posts!

 

This is why you can never go away!

[cooterbrown]

Originally posted by BlueStrat But speaking of bad writers/players, please explain Jack Johnson and George Thorogood.

 

Thank you.

I got raked over the coals once, for suggesting that George was one the worst "famous" musicians, ever.

 

There's got to be at least 150,000 dudes sweating it out in dives, across the country who can do his schtick, only with better playing and better vocals.

 

As for Jack Johnson, he doesn't neccessarily offend me, but he mines that Dave Matthews territory that I really don't like.

[BlueStrat]

Originally posted by cooterbrown Thank you. I got raked over the coals once, for suggesting that George was one the worst "famous" musicians, ever. There's got to be at least 150,000 dudes sweating it out in dives, across the country who can do his schtick, only with better playing and better vocals. As for Jack Johnson, he doesn't neccessarily offend me, but he mines that Dave Matthews territory that I really don't like.

 

OMG, if I hear Georgie boy ruin one more classic blues song, I'm going to go postal.

 

And how the hell does a guy make an entire career out of playing slight variations of the same song over and over and over?

 

Well, I guess Boston did it...!

 

And yeah, Jack Johnson doesn't bother me, it's just that he's so....common and average, I guess. Not a great player, not a great singer, mediocre writer. He's the example of someone who just happened to be in the right place at the right time in front of the right person who probably got a knobber on the way to their meeting. But you and I both probably know personally a dozen unknowns who are better writers, singers and players, who will never get a break.

[Blackwatch]

For more on Jack Johnson and how he made it.....check this out......http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1302384

[Scafeets]

Originally posted by Blackwatch For more on Jack Johnson and how he made it.....check this out...... http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1302384

 

That WAS a fun thread. People with looks, friends in high places and good publicity do have an edge in the music business. It happens all the time -- not a guarantee of success, but it stacks the odds a bit.

 

As for GT; I don't begrudge anyone who makes the blues more popular. Hell, if it wasn't for GT, and all the other good-lookin' pop stars playing the blues before and since, (John Mayer comes to mind ) the genre would have died with Muddy, Elmore and Leonard Chess.

 

We all owe a debt of gratitude to guys like Eric Clapton, who caught pop-star lightening in a bottle at an early age, and has spent his entire career bringing the music of people like Robert Johnson to the general public.

 

 

www.AlsoKnown.com

[buzzcut]

 

Originally posted by BlueStrat OMG, if I hear Georgie boy ruin one more classic blues song, I'm going to go postal. And how the hell does a guy make an entire career out of playing slight variations of the same song over and over and over? Well, I guess Boston did it...! And yeah, Jack Johnson doesn't bother me, it's just that he's so....common and average, I guess. Not a great player, not a great singer, mediocre writer. He's the example of someone who just happened to be in the right place at the right time in front of the right person who probably got a knobber on the way to their meeting. But you and I both probably know personally a dozen unknowns who are better writers, singers and players, who will never get a break.

 

 

I agree with you about GT. I don't get why the same song with different lyrics can be a hit a few times over but that's just one of the mysteries of the biz.

 

Boston's first album was soooo damn good. It's too bad they just rearranged the sounds and some of the lyrics for a follow up.

 

Many great artists don't seem to recognize when their creativity has run its course or become stagnant. At the same tiime, I guess you can't blame them if they are still making a good living recycling their same old things.

 

That's another advantage of songwriting. You can write the same kind of song from different points of view and in different genres and still not sound "old" if different artists cut your tunes.

[Gregg Hall]

You think one should go to a big city? Or do you recommend trying to make it in a very small town?

[cooterbrown]

 

Originally posted by BlueStrat OMG, if I hear Georgie boy ruin one more classic blues song, I'm going to go postal.

 

 

Has he ever done a real blues song?

The only thing I've ever heard him do are Hooker and Diddley-style boogie-woogies.

Has anybody ever heard GT play a minor chord, for that matter?

What a disgrace he is.

His voice sounds like one of those little electric chainsaws you can buy at Wal-Mart.

[Gregg Hall]

 

Originally posted by cooterbrown Has he ever done a real blues song? The only thing I've ever heard him do are Hooker and Diddley-style boogie-woogies. Has anybody ever heard GT play a minor chord, for that matter? What a disgrace he is. His voice sounds like one of those little electric chainsaws you can buy at Wal-Mart.

 

 

I am more annoyed by those with weak vocal abilities who can't even play an insturment.

[Blackwatch]

New York City. Not Nashville. This isn't based on any practical insight, just that I HATE Nashville. It's a scummy, gross, boring, bourgeois, redneck hell-hole of a city. But I digress... Wait. No I don't. Nashville is HORRIBLE! It's ugly, the people are fake, it lacks culture, it's ugly, ugly, ugly. You can only eat at Noshville so many times before the realisation that those potato pancakes you're eating are but a mere glimpse of the bigger and better things outside of Nashville (and they're not even that good! I'm sure you can get better ones in NYC). And Hillsborough Village? Please! It's like, a couple good bookstores and couple OK restaurants, and that's IT... And that's supposedly the bohemian mecca of the city? {censored} that! And the few good clothing stores are way overpriced, I swear. $25 for a {censored}ty retro reproduction? Grrrrrr... And yeah, the people are fake as can be (southern manners and smiles masking neo-conservative vindictiveness... quasi-artistic facades masking inescapable white-trash roots... and everything inbetween). Yes... go to NYC. Hell, go to Beijing.* Just don't go to Nashville!

 

 

 

But how do you REALLY feel about Nashville???

[Scafeets]

 

Originally posted by Delle_Rose New York City. Not Nashville. This isn't based on any practical insight, just that I HATE Nashville. It's a scummy, gross, boring, bourgeois, redneck hell-hole of a city. But I digress... Wait. No I don't. Nashville is HORRIBLE! It's ugly, the people are fake, it lacks culture, it's ugly, ugly, ugly. You can only eat at Noshville so many times before the realisation that those potato pancakes you're eating are but a mere glimpse of the bigger and better things outside of Nashville (and they're not even that good! I'm sure you can get better ones in NYC). And Hillsborough Village? Please! It's like, a couple good bookstores and couple OK restaurants, and that's IT... And that's supposedly the bohemian mecca of the city? {censored} that! And the few good clothing stores are way overpriced, I swear. $25 for a {censored}ty retro reproduction? Grrrrrr... And yeah, the people are fake as can be (southern manners and smiles masking neo-conservative vindictiveness... quasi-artistic facades masking inescapable white-trash roots... and everything inbetween). Yes... go to NYC. Hell, go to Beijing.* Just don't go to Nashville! * Don't actually go to Beijing

 

 

Sounds like you never found the real Nashville. As a born-and-raised NYC guy who has also lived in Boston and other urban locales, I have to say that I had five very enjoyable years in Nashville. I worked on Music Row and lived in Franklin, a cool little hamlet 20 miles south. If you were looking for Bohemia, you should have kept going south past Hillsboro village and headed for Franklin.

 

I'll agree that downtown Nashville is at the top of any list for Bad Architecture and has The Worst Eye-Talian (that's how they say it) restaurants of any major city in the country. But the people are friendly, sincere and polite. This can seem a little weird if you're from Boston, NY, Seattle, etc....

 

I'm no clothes-horse, so I can't tell you if they have that sort of "culture." I can tell you that my wife, an accomplished textile artist who has lived in her share of bohemias, liked to shop in a number of little boutiques that weren't outposts for the national chains.

 

As for new-conservatives...huh? A liberal democrat for Governor, who was term-limited out as mayor of Nashville. And -- get this: He's a NYC native.

Sounds like you didn't get out much, or were spending too much time in Brentwood. Give Nashville another chance, dude.

[cooterbrown]

 

Originally posted by Scafeets Sounds like you never found the real Nashville. As a born-and-raised NYC guy who has also lived in Boston and other urban locales, I have to say that I had five very enjoyable years in Nashville. I worked on Music Row and lived in Franklin, a cool little hamlet 20 miles south. If you were looking for Bohemia, you should have kept going south past Hillsboro village and headed for Franklin.

 

 

How long ago was this?

I hate to ruin your bucolic memories of Franklin, but it has turned into the new Brentwood...nothing but $350,000+ houses, malls, and trendy shops, *everywhere*.

[Scafeets]

 

Originally posted by cooterbrown How long ago was this? I hate to ruin your bucolic memories of Franklin, but it has turned into the new Brentwood...nothing but $350,000+ houses, malls, and trendy shops, *everywhere*.

 

 

I left in Y2K. I'm sure you're right about Franklin. The thing about Bohemias -- they all get trendy, go upscale and the bohemians have to leave so the trendies can move in and boost the rent.

 

It happened in Greenwich Village, Mill Valley, SOHO and every other place of a similar stripe.

 

I'm sure there's another one somewhere out there. If form follows function, it'll be swell untill the .Scene finds it, writes it up and someone decides it's time to move a Starbucks there.

[lefthandpath]

All I'm saying is, stay outta NYC. It sucks oxycontin-soaked cotton balls. The music scene here has been dead since grunge peaked. The only things here for you now is probably session work which the session clíques already have covered. The markets here are as insular and incestuous as any *industry* city. I think it was Moses Avalon that compared the business to gambling. In levels of sophistication, the music business is the 5$ blackjack table. I think he's right.

 

Hey, you can come, but come with your eyes open!

[Delle_Rose]

 

Originally posted by Scafeets Sounds like you never found the real Nashville. As a born-and-raised NYC guy who has also lived in Boston and other urban locales, I have to say that I had five very enjoyable years in Nashville. I worked on Music Row and lived in Franklin, a cool little hamlet 20 miles south. If you were looking for Bohemia, you should have kept going south past Hillsboro village and headed for Franklin.

 

 

Yeah, I actually went to Franklin quite often. I was actually a quasi-regular at that little indie theater which for the life of me I can't remember it's name now (I even briefly dated a girl who worked in the booth there). It was better than most of the Nashville area, but still gross. I mean, their Rocky Horror was just vile and crude... it's supposed to be colorful and rad... not one long masturbation joke.

 

Trust me, I was all around Nashville... NOT a pleasant place, from what I saw (and I saw it all... I can't tell you the amount of times I had to tell people who had lived there their entire lives about places just a couple miles away from where they grew up). I mean, I was young when I was there, so there were a lot of clubs I couldn't get into and whatnot, but still... Nashville's gross. And yeah, people are friendly, but it's such a facade... they're friendly, not nice. Big difference. I'm in San Francisco now (where I was born), where people are genuinely nice and open (though not always 100% polite... but that's fine).

 

And Nashville's pretty conservative and rednecky. Many confederate flags, many people trying to explain to me how the KKK isn't *actually* a hate group (yeah, right), people with their dogs chained up outside all day long, really hard to find a place that serves vegetarian food or uses organic ingredients, white trash rednecks and ghetto black kids making fun of/beating up gays and whatnot, etc... And most of the people who ARE nice/artistic/cultured have very obvious roots in the above mentioned. Given, there were some lovely people who I adored and still do (most of whom hated Nashville, too), but they were a very isolated minority.

[Delle_Rose]

 

Originally posted by cooterbrown How long ago was this? I hate to ruin your bucolic memories of Franklin, but it has turned into the new Brentwood...nothing but $350,000+ houses, malls, and trendy shops, *everywhere*.

 

 

Oh man... Actually, for all my anti-Nashville rants, I have to admit, there's a certain charm in $350,000 homes being considered upscale.

 

I think that was one of the cute things about Nashville... that everyone there is so obviously from there and relatively unaware of the outside world... it's really a very hometowny city. This quality was really cute in some people, and really annoying in others.

[Mistersuperfly]

350,000 buys a whole lot more house in Nashville than it does in San Fransisco... location determines price, and I'd rather have a 350,000$ 4,000 sq ft 5 bedroom new construction house than a small old apartment with maybe 2 rooms and a full kitchen... Nashville wasn't too bad for me, I enjoy Atlanta a whole lot more, but Nashville is what it is. And it certainly isn't as horrible as you're making it out to be, how old were you? 17?

 

There are stupid people everywhere.

[Delle_Rose]

 

Originally posted by Mistersuperfly 350,000 buys a whole lot more house in Nashville than it does in San Fransisco... location determines price, and I'd rather have a 350,000$ 4,000 sq ft 5 bedroom new construction house than a small old apartment with maybe 2 rooms and a full kitchen... Nashville wasn't too bad for me, I enjoy Atlanta a whole lot more, but Nashville is what it is. And it certainly isn't as horrible as you're making it out to be, how old were you? 17? There are stupid people everywhere.

 

 

Yeah, there are stupid people everywhere. But quite a few in Nashville.

 

I'm not really as bitter as I seem... the post was originally a joke (I went on a rant about delicious Jewish food, for chrissake!), and, while you may not read it that way, It's been my intent to keep it that way throughout. Nashville had some good things... but mostly bad things. It's not the worst place in the world, but at the same time, I'd never choose to live there. Yeah, it is what it is.

 

As far as price... $350,000 doesn't buy any house in SF... so... hehe. I don't know... that's really a matter of lifestyle taste. Some people prefer having really great affordable houses in bland areas. However, I generally find those "great" houses to be souless, charmless, and drab. I'd much rather live in cramped apartment in a wonderful city than a huge house in a place where it's a chore to walk outside (and I've lived in every possible version of both... from trailer courts in hicksville Missouri to gated communities outside of St Louis to 4,000 sq ft homes on the top of a hill in Tennessee to borderline ghetto housing developments in CA and VA, to quaint apartments in San Fran and Chicago, etc, etc, etc...). But that's what's important to me... I can totally see how other people would feel differently.

 

If someone likes Nashville, then cool. I really couldn't care less. But I still think it's crap.

[Scafeets]

Funny...I'm a NYC guy living in the Carolinas, and here I am defending Nashville, a place that's famous for the only music genre I can't stand, and with a well-earned reputation for horrible restaurants and hideous architecture; but hey, give 'em a break.

 

First of all, do the math: 1.4 million people in the metro area, where there used to be 400,000 not too many years ago, Where did that extra million people come from? Mostly NY and West Coast, to escape obscene housing costs, and Michigan, following the auto industry jobs to the region.

 

Redneck? Conservative? Take a look at the history. The local newspaper won dozens of Pulitzers back in the day for being the first (and often only) major southern newspaper to be overtly pro-civil rights. Al Gore senior, remember him? Got elected as a pro-civil rights dixiecrat back when it counted.

 

And they now have a liberal, Democrat governor, who would still be mayor of Nashville if not for term limits. Plus, a dem majority in the state house and congressional delegation. Sure, they have Frist, who bought his way into the Senate. But, California has Darryl Issa -- doesn't exactly make it a fascist state, does it?

 

Frankly, I saw more racism (and anti-Semitism) in Southern California, suburban Michigan and all over Boston than I've ever seen in Tennessee or North Carolina.

 

As for the anti-gay thing: Well, you get that all over. Except maybe for S.F. , Key West, Greenwich Village and a few other outposts. I don't know if acting straight is the same thing as changing your last name to hide your nationality, but I see a lot of both going on all over the country.

[BlueStrat]

Some people prefer having really great affordable houses in bland areas.

 

My house is 2300 sq ft and would sell for about 220k.

 

This is the bland area I live in: