Members Michael W Nelso Posted July 30, 2005 Members Share Posted July 30, 2005 Hey Guys, I've been experimenting with mounting my tom(s) on the kick shell using the standard tom mount vs. mounting the tom(s) on a separate stand. Tone/sound-wise I can hear no difference. Am I missing something? How are your guys mounting your tom(s) and does it make a difference? TIA Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ignited Posted July 30, 2005 Members Share Posted July 30, 2005 I prefer to mount my rack tom on a cymbal stand because I don't like the idea of putting any unnecessary stress on the bass drum. Mounting it on a stand also allows me to put it right where I want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members headmasterchaos Posted July 30, 2005 Members Share Posted July 30, 2005 I have 2 toms (10x10, 12x10) and an 11" splash cymbal mounted on the bass drum. I have tried all manner of configurations and I have not noticed any sort of a difference in sound quality. The bass drum is not very deep (20x16) and it could be that the weight is not distorting the bass drum shape ergo not affecting the tone. Possibly using heavier (i.e., larger) toms on a deeper bass drum would depress it into an oval shape however, I have no experience with that first hand. The only thing I don't like about mounting toms on the bass drum is that, for me, it makes it slightly inconvienient to put the ride cymbal in a jazz configuration. However, I also find it inconvienient to have toms (I have 5) all over the place. As I have it setup now, all the toms are basically touching each other so its very easy to do fast tom work. Its a good working compromise. On the other hand, I'm all for using racks but I don't have that much extra space right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mopzilla Posted July 30, 2005 Members Share Posted July 30, 2005 In any setup, I prefer to have toms and cymbals off the bass drum. If I hit the bassdrum, I can hear the tom ringing, and if I attach a cymbal to the bass drum (like a ride, in an ultra-compact jazz setup), I can feel the cymbal vibrations through the pedal. In 4-pieces, only a tom goes on the bass. For a 5-piece, I use a single heavy stand for two toms and ride #2. The right half above the bass is always reserved for ride #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rca Posted July 30, 2005 Members Share Posted July 30, 2005 If the tom mount is the same, the toms will sound the same. Generally speaking, different mounts affect the sustain, or amount of shell sound you hear. Mounting toms on the kick likely muffles the kick, but if you already muffle the kick a lot, taking the toms off might not make a difference, especially if you leave the mount on the kick and just don't hang the toms on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Skr4ped Posted July 31, 2005 Members Share Posted July 31, 2005 They look cooler mounted on cymbal stands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Blastem Posted July 31, 2005 Members Share Posted July 31, 2005 I mount my gear on the kick. I have a 10 X 10 and a 20" ride mounted on the kick. I would say that if your interested in mounting them off cymbal stands the only thing you really achieve is the look. As for feeling the ride through the pedal in my experience I know I dont feel mine while playing. The other thing is I want anyone to prove that mounting on the kick has caused their drum to go "OUT OF ROUND"!! I have never seen this happen!! Also drums resonate from other drums and other noises in the room you are playing in. Of coarse they are going to resonate weather they are mounted on the kick drum or not. My 8 X 8 mounted to the cymbal stand sings like bird when I play the kick and so does the 10 mounted on the kick!! I think if you are looking for the answer to your question here is mine. If you want a virgin kick drum you are mostly doing it for the look. It really serves no purpose other than you dont mount anything to it as far as I am concerned. I know this may strike up some opposition and let me tell you this. When you can tell me through a recording or live without seeing the actual setup the differnce between the two you should start playing your local lottery because you have a gift!! Dont take my answer as that I am against virgin kick drums. I think they look great!! Thats the only purpose in my eyes though.Just my opinion. EYE CANDY!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Snake Posted August 1, 2005 Members Share Posted August 1, 2005 I mount my toms on stands. It doesn't make huge difference, but my kick is a little more resonant without the weight of the toms bearing down on it. Mainly, it's just a more flexible setup (for me anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rockbeat Posted August 1, 2005 Members Share Posted August 1, 2005 I do like the look of a virgin bass drum with toms mounted on a stand to the side, but I have to agree with Blastem; I don't think it improves a kits sound to any real discernable degree. Nor do I think having the toms mounted on the kick will cause it to go out of round, unless it is a crappy drum to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Old Steve Posted August 1, 2005 Members Share Posted August 1, 2005 Originally posted by Blastem The other thing is I want anyone to prove that mounting on the kick has caused their drum to go "OUT OF ROUND"!! I have never seen this happen!! Oh yeah?!? Well how about this: I once mounted a 16" and an 18" tom on my kick, and muffled them by filling them with sand (each drum weighed about 200-240 pounds). They were mounted on a 2 ply maple (3mm thick) kick that I had take the front head and rim off of. After practicing in a very humid greenhouse for several months, the kick was oval shaped!!!! Seriously, while in THEORY I suppose somebody could warp a kick drum by putting toms on it, it would have to be a pretty extreme case. I've personally never seen it either. With even a LITTLE common sense, you're not going to warp a kick drum by mounting toms on it. Back before I got my rack, I had a 10" and 12" mounted on my kick, and a 8" splash mounted between them. When I'd hit the kick, the toms would resonate a little, which actually sounded pretty good. Also, the splash would ring just a little bit. Overall, however, I highly doubt that anybody standing a few feet away from the kit would have heard a difference. Still, the extra ring out of the toms did sound nice...added a little bit more tone, etc. Another story: back before the days of suspension mounts when toms mounted right on the shell, I'd always have slight issues between my 12" and 13" toms. No matter how hard I tried, I could never get them both to resonate as well when they were both on the same mount on the kick. With the advent of RIMs mounts, this problem disappeared because the drums were acoustically isolated from each other. If you're debating whether or not to mount on the kick, the #1 priority should be ergonomics, IMHO. If you're most comfortable playing with the toms mounted over the kick, by all means, mount them on the kick (it's super-convenient, and you have much less gear to haul). Next, if you still want to futher isolate the drums from each other (so the thump of the kick doesn't transmit through the hardware into the toms) then you could get stands. If your only worry is damaging the kick, that should be your last priority because it really isn't an issue, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members slambang Posted August 2, 2005 Members Share Posted August 2, 2005 I totally (and usually do) agree with Old Steve. Physics says that you're losing resonance due to the convection of sound between the kick and the mass of the drums and mounting hardware of whatever you are physically joining to it. Will you hear it? Probably not. Though, the physics don't lie. Your are going to lose a bit, however small, to the drums and hardware attached. -so- I'd say, if it is phisically comfortable and practical for you mount the toms off of anything other than the bass drum ... do it. jai- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zeromus-X Posted August 2, 2005 Members Share Posted August 2, 2005 I mount mine on a separate stand, but it's because I like playing with them low and flat, and I like having the toms right in front of me with the kick off to the side at an angle. With the toms mounted on the kick, they were too high for the way I wanted to play them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Michael W Nelso Posted August 2, 2005 Author Members Share Posted August 2, 2005 I find that's it's easier for me to sit at a slight angle (left) of my kick drum and play vs. straight onto the kick (as the pro video's tell me how to position myself behind the kit. As was pointed out having the two toms mounted on a separate stand to the left of my kick allows the toms to be lower and less angle (flat). I remember a Tommy Igoe video that make a point of sitting up the kit in a 'square' with the drummer facing the kick. How are you guys setting up and sitting behind your kit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Old Steve Posted August 2, 2005 Members Share Posted August 2, 2005 I've got a similar thing going. My toms are on a rack, but the kick is off the the right a little bit and point a little right as well. My two rack toms are a little bit to the left of the kick, and the combined with the snare form a tight little equilateral triangle. Bottom line, don't worry about what your drums look like set up. The more ergonomic you can make your setup, the more efficiently you'll be able to play. Still, complete ergonomic efficiency will be different for everybody, but at the same time will probably cause you to spend more on hardware to get everything exactly where you want it. On the flipside, due to their size and nature, it's never easy to get things 100% in the perfect place. You kind of have to weigh the importance of each part of your kit, and then make sure your most important elements are as close to "perfect" as you can get them. If you've got some special effects cymbal or something that you rarely use, it's ok to have to reach a little bit for it. A few years back, when I did the most drastic change to my setup, I took all the stands down and even went so far as to 'erase' the angles on all the stands (put them all to "nuetral" settings so I wouldn't be tempted by laziness to automatically fall back to any former angles or positions. Then I started from the ground up. I set up my stool and got the height right. Then I placed my feet squarely on the ground where they felt natural. I marked the carpet I set up on where my feet were, and then put my kick pedal and hi-hat pedal in the spots that my feet naturally fell, and then marked the carpet with tape to outline the exact spots they should go. After I got the pedals in place, I put the snare drum in it's "best" spot and marked it. Then the ride. Then the toms, and then the rest of my cymbals making sure that the ones I hit most often were easiest to get to and the least used were "fit in" last. After I got everything set, I marked all the stands' postitions on the carpet and marked the stands themselves so I could set up EXACTLY the same way every time. Now that I have a rack, much of this marking isn't needed, but in general my layout is the same. Occasionally I'll get some yahoo asking me why my kick drum head isn't square with the stage, but other than that it's a much better way for ME to play my kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Michael W Nelso Posted August 2, 2005 Author Members Share Posted August 2, 2005 Old Steve, Thanks for the detailed reply. I 'started over' again myself and found that I wasn't 'squared' to the kick and was wondering if it was just me... To prove my manhood I purchased a 7 piece Premier kit with acres of cymbals. It doesn't take long to realize a well played 4 or 5 piece kit will cover just as much musical territory with so much less hassle... So I've been 're-thinking' my percussion priorities with set up(s) and 'how big is enough'. BTW: Advertising? I sent you an email last night. check your HC ebox. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rumblebelly Posted August 2, 2005 Members Share Posted August 2, 2005 I couldn't imagine being "squared" with a kick. That darn snare just seems to be in the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Old Steve Posted August 2, 2005 Members Share Posted August 2, 2005 Originally posted by Michael W Nelso BTW: Advertising? I sent you an email last night. check your HC ebox.Michael For some reason it didn't show up. I'll try to leave you a message in yours with an alternate address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zeromus-X Posted August 3, 2005 Members Share Posted August 3, 2005 Originally posted by Old Steve For some reason it didn't show up. I'll try to leave you a message in yours with an alternate address. Lots of people had this problem oddly enough, probably due to the forum stuff going on. Everyone, keep an eye on your PMs just in case. I get a lot of drummers on my kit who can't stand the toms off to the left (technically, in front of you). Most of them are pop-punk style drummers, or alternative rock drummers, who like to do lots of fills. You know, really upbeat, faster music. They like to roll between the three toms, and when one of those is way off to the right compared to the others, it {censored}s 'em up. I wish my 10" and 12" toms were shallower; then I could have them a little further right and a little lower... ah well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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