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ARG why are my toms so high (I suck)


Kevin K Is A OK

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Title says it all. No matter what I do, my two rack toms never seem they're in the right place. They're regular fusion sizes (10 and 12) and the bass drum's a 22 inch and no matter what I do when I position them over the bass drum they seem too high up! :(

 

This is kind of an "out there" type question but does anyone have any suggestions. I've been moving {censored} around, adjusting my throne (height, as well as moving it north south east west) but I'm getting nothing. Perhaps someone can shed some light on this or maybe post a good picture of theirs. They just always seem to feel awkward wherever they are. I have them set up on cymbal stands so the mounting brackets kinda come in from the side maybe that makes the problem. I'd post a picture If I had one!

 

I dunno, any tips I'd appreciate it. I get my throne height at a good place, (upper leg pretty much parallel to the floor, maybe slightly higher or lower haven't really looked) if I go up too high then I fall apart trying to play the bas s pedals, go to low and I feel like my toms are the cookie jar on the top shelf. Perhaps I should try moving my throne forward...but then I'm "crammed" into my drums. I'm trying to figure out what "angle" people generally have their knee, from front to back. If that makes any sense. Perhaps I need to scoot the throne forward and slide the bass drum back to compensate and then kinda have the toms "in front" of the bass drum? But that's no good.

 

It's a noobish question but it's something that's been bothering me for a while. It used to not be much of a problem but now I'm doing a lot of faster fills and stuff and playing faster music in general and I'm trying to set my stuff up as efficiently as possible (well I guess we'd do that regardless). I dunno, it just feels odd to me! My drums are located at a practice space, I'll try again tomorrow see what I can do but if anyone has any tips go nutso!

 

I don't want to angle my toms "down" too much either because that's kind of the metal retard way of doing things and you kinda stab your drums with your sticks no good.

 

Long post don't bother reading it. :wave:

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Well I have my toms pretty high up. And angled... What might be best. Give us a shot of yours with you sitting at it. If you go to the "pictures of my kit thread". There are tons of images in there as to how folks have thier kit set up. And a note... LOL Ive been playing for like 30 years now. And I still move stuff around and try things.

Dont get frustrated.

 

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1424637

 

Mike

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Yeah thanks I started looking through there but my internets slow right now because my roommate (on the same network) most be torrenting some porn or something and he doesn't set limits so it's loading wayyy slow.

 

I've been playing for almost ten years myself. I watch Danny Carey from Tool play and I just want to be that. Well I don't copy him but he's a huge style influence on me. But as far as his setup goes, he has way more latitude because he's like 6'7". Bastard. I tried a setup tonight that had the two rack toms shifted to the left side so the snare's right inbetween them kinda but then I had to raise the hihat up real hight to make room for the little tom and then had to move the hihat over some and then of course move the left bass pedal over some and arg.

 

Maybe I just need to make a radical change like that and give myself more than five seconds to get used to it. But then again, usually if you rarely see anyone do a specific setup, it's for a reaon.

 

But then with that setup I could get my ride in closer so who knows. Thanks for your help. Together we can get through this! :p

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Dont give up. hehe! Think of it like a racing car. Most pit stops little things get changed till they get it right. Our instrument is kinda cool along those lines. Its a constant learning experience. Dont know if you like Neal Peart or not. But in the last several years he has totally changed how he plays. Changing grips, Raising the snare way up, Moving the throne farther back. Dont know if you know any other drummers in your area. But if ya do, Invite one over have a brew (if your of legal age) Talk drums. Play around with stuff.

 

Learning from a friend is a good thing to do. Im in the music biz here in town and have done that several times.

 

Mike

 

In case your curious. I have mine posted here. Just search using my name.

 

Nothing special. But im happy with my setup.

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Hows your posture and stick technique ? Try sitting straighter and utilizing more wrist motion..

Pearl Players tom angles are alot like mine and I'm 5'8', barefooted.

I also sit with my roc n soc at max height more like Portnoy sits but that's how high I've always sat..

There's no way that I could sit with my legs parallel because for me, I'd feel way too low...

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the last kit I bought I special ordered a 20" bass drum for just this very reason. Before that I had Ludwig with a 24" and the toms were high up there which made the cymals higher, etc. I set my toms kindof flat. It stills seems like they could be lower somehow. another option is to only use 1 rack tom and mount it on a snare stand which can make that tom lower. I see alot of guys do that. I think Charlie Watts does that.

 

I've been playing drums for 35 years and too am always tweaking my set up.

 

good luck

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Over time, as your abilities improve, things will seem more reachable.

 

For now, perhaps put away one of the rack toms? Use only one plus a floor tom. You'll be able to get that one drum further off to the side, thereby dropping it a bit. You can then slide the ride cymbal in tight, between the rack and floor toms (and partly over the bassdrum). Put a crash over the floor and another over the hihat, and you have a very compact and reachable setup.

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I have been building an article on my site about the #1 "whine" in the drumming world: drum angles. I pointed out that everyone from Peart to McBrain had toms high and angled, and gee whiz...they play "extra ok" for not having them ruler-flat.

 

Reading some drum forums, there seems to be a mentality that drums have to be level within 1/32nd of a bubble. That's a load of crap. The angle:

 

DOES NOT MATTER so long as it's reletive to your wrist and the way you play it. My toms will forever be angled (it helps on bigger kits) , not to mention 24" kick. I am not a "tall" guy, but I know where I have to sit, and that is so that when playing, my knees never come up above my waist. (perpendicular). If that happens, I'm off balance, so I sit a bit higher. Toms go a bit higher, and are angled.

 

Check these angles out:

http://www.synthetictubs.com/tom_angles.htm

 

Angles are not evil, they can be necessary!

 

(Usually insecure drummers want you to set them up flat, because you are really setting up your kit for THEM, not YOU.)

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I had the same problem...soooo I got a rack (for other reasons too)...Positionin of everything is so much more versatile now. I guess you could get a tom stand, but that's already about 1/4-1/3 the cost of a rack anyway...ironically, with the rack I'm always adjusting crap...

good luck

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I have been building an article on my site about the #1 "whine" in the drumming world: drum angles. I pointed out that everyone from Peart to McBrain had toms high and angled, and gee whiz...they play "extra ok" for not having them ruler-flat.


Reading some drum forums, there seems to be a mentality that drums have to be level within 1/32nd of a bubble. That's a load of crap. The angle:


DOES NOT MATTER so long as it's reletive to your wrist and the way you play it. My toms will forever be angled (it helps on bigger kits) , not to mention 24" kick. I am not a "tall" guy, but I know where I have to sit, and that is so that when playing, my knees never come up above my waist. (perpendicular). If that happens, I'm off balance, so I sit a bit higher. Toms go a bit higher, and are angled.


Check these angles out:



Angles are not evil, they can be
necessary
!


(Usually insecure drummers want you to set them up flat, because you are really setting up your kit for THEM, not YOU.)

 

 

AMEN! I think the cause is that lots of drummers today are putting their drums lower because they're postioning them next to their kick drums rather than over them. Heck, if you put 'em low enough, you should angle them AWAY from you.

 

The key is that you want to make sure that you can bring the stick into the head at about a 90 degree angle. So if you put a tom up higher, you'll need to tilt the drum. The amount that you tilt it is linked to the path that the stick will be coming into the head. For a drum to be perfectly flat, it has to be low enough that it's below the tip of the stick when your arm is relaxed and you're holding your elbow at a 90 degree angle....probably slightly higher than "thigh high" like a snare drum or floor tom. If you put your toms higher than that (which, if you're a normal sized human, play a 20" or taller kick drum, and mount toms deeper than 2" on top of that kick) you'll probably need to angle your drums a little bit.

 

In the "old days" of big drumsets with huge toms, the opposite problem would happen. Guys would angle their drums TOO MUCH to replicate the rockstars of that era. In that case, the stick would end up coming into the drum from too steep an angle.

 

Remember, YOU play the drums, so you need to set them up how YOU will be most able to work with maximum efficiency. Wasted movement is wasted effort, and will keep you from performing at maximimum speed and power.

 

Look at the arc of your forearm as you swing it downward from your shoulder to horizontal. The angle of the head should be pretty close to the angle of your forearm at the height at which the stick impacts the head. If the angle isn't close, you're set up goofy.

 

Of course, with drums, you've got a relatively small hitting area with a large and cumbsome "rest of the drum" to deal with, so in most instances you have to comprimise a little bit.

 

If you want "flat" drums, you need to understand that the only real benefit is a visual one...you'll be easier to see and/or look more like Travis Barker. That's cool if that's what you want to do, but from a playing perspective, it's probably not the ideal setup.

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I think one major issue that is being missed here is that people are different heights and have different lengths of arms and legs, so drum setup is very personal. I don't about you guys, but I never play as well when I sit in on someone else's kit.

 

An eye opening video for me about this topic is Dave Weckl's DVD about developing technique and applying the "natural approach" to drumming. It's helped me become a better and more comfortable player.

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I have my "rack" toms angled at nearly 40 degrees. Sounds just fine, and it's easier to play fast fills.

 

I think what the "flat toms" crowd doesn't realize is that the toms don't necessarily resonate better when they're flat, you just get a different sound because you are no longer 'on axis' with the heads. Of course it's going to sound different. The main thing is that to the audience in any normal sized room will hear basically the same thing no matter what angle (within reason) you have your toms.

 

Yeah, if you're playing in someone's living room, then sure, they'll hear a difference. But in any normal gigging situation, no difference...not that the audience would be savvy enough to tell, even if there was one.

 

My opinion.

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Here's what I mean:

 

 

angle.jpg

 

 

 

The 10" tom is in the foreground, the 12" tom is in the background. Even the hanging floor tom is angled.

 

Just like Old Steve was saying, I have the angled such that when I hit them, the tip of the stick is coming down at close to a 90 degree angle relative to the head.

 

But that's not me in the picture. That's the bass player's 8 year old son playing "Fire" by Jimi Hendrix. :eek:

 

He's gonna be a killer drummer!!

:thu:

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Here's what I mean:

 

 

angle.jpg

 

 

 

QUOTE]

 

I thought that was you after discovering the founatian of youth!

 

Wellhungarian makes a good point about personal physical proportions. I'm 6'6" tall, and wear shirts with 37" sleeves. I'm guessing that a guy who's 5'6" would have a tough time behind my kit, and vice versa. In fact, I sometimes feel a little bad for the poor saps who follow my band in the rehearsal studio (shared kit). I'm sure the next guy sits down with his feet dangling off the throne and the snare drum sitting at chin level is left wondering what the hell happened.

 

Still, it comes down to finding the most efficient setup for each person individually. Once you throw in "cosmetic" reasons for setting up in a particular way, you're being a little counterproductive, IMHO.

 

As DW says, acousitically, the drums don't really know or care what angle they're set up at. While I'm sure the effects of gravity on head vibrations make SOME difference, I imagine it would be inaudible to humans.

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Well thanks guys I'll try giving them a bit more of an angle! It's just my pre-conceived notions that it tooks kinda OMG MMMMMETAL and also it puts dents in the heads worse than when they're less angled because you're kinda stabbing the toms.

 

 

Who cares what it looks like? It's about playing, right? As for dents in the heads, the closer to a 90 degree stroke you can get, the less likely you'll dent your heads up. Dents usually happen when things are tilted too much so that the angle between the stick path and the drum is MORE than 90 degrees.

 

Here's what to do:

1.) take apart your kit so you can start over.

2.) sit on your throne with your knees at about a 90 degree angle with your feet flat on the floor. Adjust throne height to get this right.

3.) take your snare, put it on a stand, and put it between your legs. Adjust the height and angle so that you're comfortable, can play rimshots and on the head, and so that your stick tips 'naturally' sit in the center of the head.

4.) Look down at your feet. That's where you want your pedals. Put your bass pedal where your right foot sat naturally, and your hi-hat stand where your left foot sits naturally.

5.) Leaving the kick pedal where you just set it, adjust the kick drum so that you can hook it into the pedal without moving anything else.

6.) Adjust your hi-hat stand so that the hats are at a comfortable height.

7.) "Air drum" around the toms. Wherever the imaginary "impact point" of each drum was is where you should try to center each tom. With modern drum hardware, you should have little problem getting the center of the head to the same location of the "imaginary impact point. Adjust the angle so that the heads are at a 90 degree angle to the stick's path. Repeat for each tom.

8.) Use the same method with your cymbals, and adjust their locations so that you can get to them with the least arm movement possible.

 

That should get you 90% of the way there. For the remaining 10%, it's a matter of tweaking the kit as you play and making minor adjustments to get things located as closely as possible to "perfect" as you can. This last 10%, btw, is something you may chase for a long time. Hell, I've been playing for years, and every now and then, I'll move something a centimeter or two, or adjust a cymbal angle by one "tooth" of angle adjustment.

 

Also remember that the higher things go, the more you have to angle them, and the lower they go, the flatter they'll be. If you have a drum set up "flat" but it's too high, you'll hit the rim. Conversely, if a drum is too low and you have it angled too much, your "impact angle" will be greater than 90 degrees, and the tip of the stick will have a tendency to dig into (and dent) the head.

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Here's what I mean:


angle.jpg

 

I remember an obscure cat that angled his drums just like that. None of you are likely to be familiar with him. I have a picture, but the name escapes me. I seem to remember he played with some unknown British rock band and died in 1980. But you know, since he angled his rack tom, he probably wasn't very influential or anything...:rolleyes:

 

R.197%20LED%20ZEP%20-%20BONHAM.jpg

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As for dents in the heads, the closer to a 90 degree stroke you can get, the less likely you'll dent your heads up. Dents usually happen when things are tilted too much so that the angle between the stick path and the drum is MORE than 90 degrees.

Right! This is me taking great care to ensure that my sticks hit the toms at 90 degrees:

 

NINETYOMG.jpg

 

As you can see, I'm fairly inexperienced and only getting something like 85 degrees... for shame.

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