The first gig you ever played - what was it like?

[Locky]

You are completely right, they shouldn't have to pay. If they should be allowed the choice atleast. I don't have a problem which people getting paid to play. But why do you have a problem with me doing free shows?

[Terry Allan Hall]

Originally posted by Locky You are completely right, they shouldn't have to pay. If they should be allowed the choice atleast. I don't have a problem which people getting paid to play. But why do you have a problem with me doing free shows?

 

 

Because, while to you your music has no value, to a venue owner/manager you're just someone foolish enough to make him some money, at no cost to him...therefore, he has no respect for you and your music, because you're showing him that you don't put any value on it...obviously.

 

OTOH, folks like myself (and gtrjones, KeysBear, etc.) who will not be exploited, are respected as fellow businessmen...that's how being a "pro" works.

 

And, OTOH, amatuers will always be encouraged to "give it away" because the venue'll still make enough $$$ off your ignorance of the Realities of Music as a profession to justify the lesser quality you'll be offering...btw, exposure without respect is worthless, as you'll hopefully come to understand. And by lowering the perception of the value of live music, you hurt every pro musician, every semi-pro, AND yourself.

 

Best of luck.

[Locky]

You miss the point completely. Respect isn't earned by making money, its earned through musicianship. You tell me people don't respect me because I do free shows every now and then. I think its quite to the contrary. I think people respect a band who puts on free shows for their fans. Our band have been given props on the radio for the shows we've done for friends, fans and charity. Every show we do free or not brings in new fans and sells mech. The "Reality of the Music Business" is bull{censored}. Do you think people value your music anymore because of the price tag attached with it. By your logic, Napster should have de-valued the entire music industry. When in most cases it brought new music to people who would have otherwise never heard of you. Thats the reason I do free shows every now and then.

[Terry Allan Hall]

Originally posted by Locky You miss the point completely. Respect isn't earned by making money, its earned through musicianship. You tell me people don't respect me because I do free shows every now and then. I think its quite to the contrary. I think people respect a band who puts on free shows for their fans. Our band have been given props on the radio for the shows we've done for friends, fans and charity. Every show we do free or not brings in new fans and sells mech. The "Reality of the Music Business" is bull{censored}. Do you think people value your music anymore because of the price tag attached with it. By your logic, Napster should have de-valued the entire music industry. When in most cases it brought new music to people who would have otherwise never heard of you. Thats the reason I do free shows every now and then.

Son, I've been a professional musician (in other words, my music is how I paid for my home on 47 acres, my children's education, etc.) for quite a few years...OTOH, you're a guy who has a day job and plays at being a musician on the weekends, so you don't see the REALITY of making a living as a musician.

So please spare us your non-reality based foolish thoughts...when/if you've successfully supported yourself as a musician for at least 5 years, I'll be happy to take you seriously, as I'm sure gtrjones, KeysBear, etc will, as well. At that point, you'll know better than to spout BS like this: "...if you are seriously relying of music to feed your family then you aren't a very responsible person..."

[orfalot]

I rehearsed with a country/bluegrass band for a several months after I got out of college. The leader of the band pushed the bluegrass folks out to lighten the payroll. The bass player and I didn't like it and told them to start looking for replacements. We enjoyed playing with the group but weren't into the "business" end of the deal so we continued to practice with them and did one first/last free gig for a motorcycle gang's New Years Eve party. We only had two good sets so I was able to bring in a friend who played Sothern Rock with me and the bass player and we practiced one night before the gig to come up with another set. The gig went very well and I'm glad because the crowd was kinda scary looking, wouldn't have wanted to piss these guys off.

My first paid gig was as a hired gun. Got a call late one Saturday afternoon from a buddy wh9o said he would split the money if I helped split the lead guitar duties. It was a ratty club out in the middle of nowhere and the security guy was wearing a gun and hoster. It wasn't anything to brag on but the audience had a good timeand we split the $20.00!!! What do you expect from a group called Bobby Hicks and the Impossibles?

Weighing in on the free issue. To a degree it is a matter of perspective but I think its something most people grow out of. I'm not ragging on anybody but as I've said before you get what you pay for. These clubs that book free bands usually have sh*t music. It doesn't really hurt us because we aren't going to play that type of club. What it does is hurt the band thats playing for free, the no respect issue, examine your ego if thats the only way you can get a gig maybe you aren't worth your salt.

[Blackwatch]

Son, I've been a professional musician (in other words, my music is how I paid for my home on 47 acres, my children's education, etc.) for quite a few years...OTOH, you're a guy who has a day job and plays at being a musician on the weekends, so you don't see the REALITY of making a living as a musician. So please spare us your non-reality based foolish thoughts...when/if you've successfully supported yourself as a musician for at least 5 years, I'll be happy to take you seriously, as I'm sure gtrjones, KeysBear, etc will, as well. At that point, you'll know better than to spout BS like this: "...if you are seriously relying of music to feed your family then you aren't a very responsible person..."

 

 

Well said Terry

[Locky]

Thats the thing. I don't rely on my music career to support anything other then my urge to just play. Most of the times I get paid for it. Sometimes I do it for free for the fans. They seem to appreciate it. Thats the end of the story. Don't be bitter because I choose a different path.

[KeysBear]

We got stiffed by an owner last night at a place on N. Dixie Hwy in Boca Raton. I had already left and was going to let the drummer pay me my share the next day. Apparently there was quite a heated exchange. We've been calling every musician we know to tell them to stay clear, including a friend who was booked in there next week. One of the people we called said she got stiffed there last week.
I put this here on this thread in case Locky is looking for a new place to play.

Terry,
Thanks for the backup. Gotta love this business. At least April is booked including a nice weekend in Key West. Peace bro.

KeysBear

[Terry Allan Hall]

Originally posted by KeysBear We got stiffed by an owner last night at a place on N. Dixie Hwy in Boca Raton. I had already left and was going to let the drummer pay me my share the next day. Apparently there was quite a heated exchange. We've been calling every musician we know to tell them to stay clear, including a friend who was booked in there next week. One of the people we called said she got stiffed there last week. That truly sucks, bro, but this illustrates my point...when businesses feel like the entertainers are idiots, they have no problem screwing them over, and the "Lockys" of the world reinforce this image every single time they present themselves as amateurs! I put this here on this thread in case Locky is looking for a new place to play. He won't understand why, I'm guessing....just another wannabe wanting to be a "star"... Terry, Thanks for the backup. Gotta love this business. At least April is booked including a nice weekend in Key West. Peace bro. KeysBear Just wish the "Lockys" of the world would get a clue as to how much they're hurting EVERY professional musician by their not thinking beyond their own egos.

[Locky]

Beyond my own ego? Every now now and the I play free shows for friends ,fans even charity, and now I'm a bad guy. I suppose it hurts you guys when Metallica play free shows as well. What don't you understand about sometimes just wanting to get up and just play. I don't aspire to be a rock star at all. This is my hobby. I'm not some kid desperate for gigs. Our band is fairless established. Clubs thank us alot when we do free shows for them, i.e. offer to help sell merch even when we're not play that night, free drinks..etc. I don't think you guys completely understand the industry you are in either. People appreciate a band who are willing to foot the bill the play for them. It shows that we take care of our fans. Our way of giving back.

[KeysBear]

Originally posted by Locky Beyond my own ego? Every now now and the I play free shows for friends ,fans even charity, and now I'm a bad guy. I suppose it hurts you guys when Metallica play free shows as well. What don't you understand about sometimes just wanting to get up and just play. I don't aspire to be a rock star at all. This is my hobby. I'm not some kid desperate for gigs. Our band is fairless established. Clubs thank us alot when we do free shows for them, i.e. offer to help sell merch even when we're not play that night, free drinks..etc. I don't think you guys completely understand the industry you are in either. People appreciate a band who are willing to foot the bill the play for them. It shows that we take care of our fans. Our way of giving back.

I understand our industry just fine. Yeah, no kidding that clubs thank you for free shows. I'm glad you like to please your fans and the club owners. After all, they are more important than you or your music.
I don't want this to come off the wrong way, but I don't play for fans. The idea that one more drunk thinks I'm awesome just doesn't stroke me anymore. Most people have no idea what makes up a good performance and what takes it from garage level to something truly awesome. I don't play for the women either. I play because I enjoy it, and I do what I do better than anyone I know. But, you know something - because I have the standards that I do - my self esteem regarding my music is probably as high as it can get. I leave my gigs with a peaceful high that is priceless. I wouldn't give most club owners the time of day unless they paid me for it.

KeysBear

[pan]

Just two weeks ago I had my first concert with my band (we play metal/hc) here at a local club that had opened few days before, so it was kind of a grand opening. We played first and a lot of people showed up, the atmosphere was just unbeleivable. After the concert everybody were very impressed and wanted to know when we have our next gig, so it turned out perfectly.

[Terry Allan Hall]

Originally posted by Locky Beyond my own ego? Every now now and the I play free shows for friends ,fans even charity, and now I'm a bad guy. I suppose it hurts you guys when Metallica play free shows as well. What don't you understand about sometimes just wanting to get up and just play. I don't aspire to be a rock star at all. This is my hobby. I'm not some kid desperate for gigs. Our band is fairless established. Clubs thank us alot when we do free shows for them, i.e. offer to help sell merch even when we're not play that night, free drinks..etc. I don't think you guys completely understand the industry you are in either. People appreciate a band who are willing to foot the bill the play for them. It shows that we take care of our fans. Our way of giving back.

Locky, I'm not knocking your amateurness, or your lack of ability...I'm simply trying to smarten you up, as are the others who've freely given YOU their time when we could just laugh at you...

This is not our "hobby"...this is how many of us pay our bills...as I mentioned, my music has bought me a 47 acre ranch and is putting my daughter through school, as well as mundane things like gasoline for my truck, groceries for my belly and other stuff like that. I'd say that info alone should clue you as to who knows the music industry...and who doesn't.

As for "giving back" to the fans, I do several charity gigs a year and am always willing to help out...but commercial venues are NOT charities and all that playing "freebies" for them accomplishes is that you guarrantee that you'll NEVER make it to the next level in this business...and you're systematically "proving" to venue owners/managers that musicians are moronically easy to exploit...

Ignore us if your ego won't allow you to learn...you're hurting yourself most of all.

[tlbonehead]

First ever gig was in about'74 at an area dance hall that ran music weekly,everything from polka/old-time to hard rock and in between. Probably about 500-600 people there.

[flip333]

I remember my first gig kinda like Al Bundy remembers his football days....

[e-b-e]

I've been in three bands.

Here's a quick rundown of each first-time performance.

Band#1:
We'd been together for only a few months, and had enough material for about 2 sets. We were to open for a friends band, so we'd be doing one set. My bass player and myself had never played out before and we were both nervous. Neither of us ate the day of the show, too many butterflies in our stomachs. We got on stage and played our first tune and it was okay. During our second song, we threw the circuit breaker of the bar -- actually the headlining band did by plugging in more lights into the same circuit as the PA. About 2 minutes later we had power and finished the song at the point where we'd left off. We had fun our first show, and it felt good to finally go out and do it. I'm sure we probably didn't sound that great but ya gotta start somewhere.

Band #2:
We'd been together for a few months, we didn't have much for a PA system. Just a small backyard private end of summer party gig one of my bandmates' friends was having. This band couldn't consistently play complete songs, so my concern wasn't how good we would sound as much as it was how bad were we going to sound. There was an opening band and I got the PA sounding fairly decent for them so I was confident we'd have okay sound as well. From what I heard we were quite horrible. Our bass players friend videotaped the show. A week goes by and no one can get ahold of the bass player for our next practice. Another week and she finally told us that she was no longer into playing in the band. That would be our last show as well as the first. I never did see the video, but I'm guessing she did! She's the only one outta that bunch I still keep in touch with.

Band #3:
We'd been together a few months. Just enough material to get 3 sets out of, most of it fairly solid. A free show for the guitarists relative's graduation. A test run as we would be playing out for the public the following week. Went well, and gave us the confidence that we'd be ready for our first "real" gig, which we were and everyone had a good time, bar owner loved us and we've gotten 4 more dates there since. A few shows later, we got a Halloween gig and started the night off with 2 Tour busses of people dressed as witches packing the dance floor and partying, (seriously, 2 tour busses). This is my current band

Playing out is fun, its gets a bit easier and quite a bit more enjoyable as you go - and I've only played probably 25 or so shows in total. You'll remember your first show like you do the first time ya ---did other things, lol.

[BlueStrat]

Originally posted by Locky Thats the thing. I don't rely on my music career to support anything other then my urge to just play. Most of the times I get paid for it. Sometimes I do it for free for the fans. They seem to appreciate it. Thats the end of the story. Don't be bitter because I choose a different path.

 

 

Good for you. You don't need the money. So, you just go out and give it away, driving down the wage base for guys who actually do devote their life's work to music. And you wonder why music is increasingly viewed as a cheap commodity?

 

I've tried to stay out of this, but I can't just sit here and watch you insult good pros as if you actually had a clue as to what you're talking about. You said KeysBear was 'sad,', or something to that effect. No, what's sad is egotistical wannabes who want to be on stage so bad, and yet are so insecure in their own talent, that they have to give it away to get stage time. Here's the way things work: If you don't assign financial value to what you do now, no one else will later. You're like a chick who has screwed everyone in the club for free, and then decides to start charging for it. But who's going to pay her after they've already had her a few times?

 

Look, I got no beef if you want to play for free. Put on parties at private halls or in basements and jam away. But don't go out and drag the market down in a business that's already hard enough. I've had to deal with scabs my whole career, and can't tell you the number of times I've worked my ass off to put together the best show in town, and tried to get the pay up for musicians, only to have the club owner say "$100 bucks a piece a night? Why, so and so comes in for 50!" The last thing the business needs is bands working against each other. I have my issues with the musicians' union, but one thing I'll say for them is that when they were strong, I made as much money in 1978 as I do in clubs now, only back then a dollar bought 3 times what it does today.

 

One last thing, and then I'll shut up.

 

You think you're building a fan base this way? I had my last band here for 5 years, I made 4 CDs (2 favorably reviewed by national magazines) and sold about 5,000 or so copies off stage, I played a 500 mile radius doing concerts and festivals, I made $1500 a show (as a rule), and won scads of awards from the regional Blues Society. I did stage time with John Mayall, Lucky Peterson, John Hammond, etc etc. I guested with a jazz orchestra for a 4th of July concert in front of 11,000 people. I packed clubs I played locally and even regionally.

 

The only reason I'm telling you all this is because last fall, I got burned out and decided to take a break and just quit playing until further notice. That was Labor Day. Today is April 1. You wanna know how many "fans" have contacted me to at least ask where I'm playing or where I've been? ZERO. The fact is, as important as you think you may be, people just don't care about you, or your music, or how good you are, at last not to the point that it consumes any portion of their lives at all. So you may as well get some dough for all your effort.

 

Of course, as always, just my opinion.

[Terry Allan Hall]

Originally posted by BlueStrat Good for you. You don't need the money. So, you just go out and give it away, driving down the wage base for guys who actually do devote their life's work to music. And you wonder why music is increasingly viewed as a cheap commodity? I've tried to stay out of this, but I can't just sit here and watch you insult good pros as if you actually had a clue as to what you're talking about. You said KeysBear was 'sad,', or something to that effect. No, what's sad is egotistical wannabes who want to be on stage so bad, and yet are so insecure in their own talent, that they have to give it away to get stage time. Here's the way things work: If you don't assign financial value to what you do now, no one else will later. You're like a chick who has screwed everyone in the club for free, and then decides to start charging for it. But who's going to pay her after they've already had her a few times? Look, I got no beef if you want to play for free. Put on parties at private halls or in basements and jam away. But don't go out and drag the market down in a business that's already hard enough. I've had to deal with scabs my whole career, and can't tell you the number of times I've worked my ass off to put together the best show in town, and tried to get the pay up for musicians, only to have the club owner say "$100 bucks a piece a night? Why, so and so comes in for 50!" The last thing the business needs is bands working against each other. I have my issues with the musicians' union, but one thing I'll say for them is that when they were strong, I made as much money in 1978 as I do in clubs now, only back then a dollar bought 3 times what it does today. One last thing, and then I'll shut up. You think you're building a fan base this way? I had my last band here for 5 years, I made 4 CDs (2 favorably reviewed by national magazines) and sold about 5,000 or so copies off stage, I played a 500 mile radius doing concerts and festivals, I made $1500 a show (as a rule), and won scads of awards from the regional Blues Society. I did stage time with John Mayall, Lucky Peterson, John Hammond, etc etc. I guested with a jazz orchestra for a 4th of July concert in front of 11,000 people. I packed clubs I played locally and even regionally. The only reason I'm telling you all this is because last fall, I got burned out and decided to take a break and just quit playing until further notice. That was Labor Day. Today is April 1. You wanna know how many "fans" have contacted me to at least ask where I'm playing or where I've been? ZERO. The fact is, as important as you think you may be, people just don't care about you, or your music, or how good you are, at last not to the point that it consumes any portion of their lives at all. So you may as well get some dough for all your effort. Of course, as always, just my opinion.

 

 

Absolutely! (Not that he'll probably listen to any of us)

[KeysBear]

Originally posted by BlueStrat The last thing the business needs is bands working against each other. I have my issues with the musicians' union, but one thing I'll say for them is that when they were strong, I made as much money in 1978 as I do in clubs now, only back then a dollar bought 3 times what it does today.

In the 80's I didn't have a care in the world because I made enough money gigging three to six nights a week to pay my car payment, a shared condo, food, and entertainment.
Now you have to have your band gig, a solo gig, play a bunch of private parties, and teach somewhere too to piece together a living. Like I said, I have a day job, but our bass player runs around doing everything I just described to make a full time living in the music biz.
BTW, I'm no longer writing any of this for Locky's benefit. He ain't gonna get it no matter what we say, but I can pretty much guarantee he won't be in the business very long.

KeysBear

[Locky]

You are still missing the point. I don't aspire to be a pro musican. Play music is just my hobby. If I don't make it then that fine. I make more money then most musicians anyways working as an engineer. I play maybe 25-30 shows a year. Maybe 4-5 are for free. You guys are absolutely right about one thing though. I don't care about a word you said, because I can't see the threat in a band playing a charity shows, or a friends birthday party, or simply as a favor, for free.

[Terry Allan Hall]

Originally posted by Locky You are still missing the point. I don't aspire to be a pro musican. Play music is just my hobby. If I don't make it then that fine. I make more money then most musicians anyways working as an engineer. I play maybe 25-30 shows a year. Maybe 4-5 are for free. You guys are absolutely right about one thing though. I don't care about a word you said, because I can't see the threat in a band playing a charity shows, or a friends birthday party, or simply as a favor, for free.

 

 

We're not talking about playing a charity show, or a friends birthday party, for free...we're talking about playing freebies in commercial settings, thereby undermining the efforts of every professional musician you'll ever meet.

 

Try to understand the difference...

[Locky]

I understand the difference. I never made mention otherwise. This whole bloody time this is what I was refering to.

[KeysBear]

Whatever. See ya around the board.

KeysBear

[Terry Allan Hall]

Originally posted by Locky I understand the difference. I never made mention otherwise. This whole bloody time this is what I was refering to.

 

 

 

If I may respectfully remind you of this post...

 

 

Originally posted by Locky Beyond my own ego? Every now now and the I play free shows for friends ,fans even charity, and now I'm a bad guy. I suppose it hurts you guys when Metallica play free shows as well. What don't you understand about sometimes just wanting to get up and just play. I don't aspire to be a rock star at all. This is my hobby. I'm not some kid desperate for gigs. Our band is fairless established. Clubs thank us alot when we do free shows for them, i.e. offer to help sell merch even when we're not play that night, free drinks..etc. I don't think you guys completely understand the industry you are in either. People appreciate a band who are willing to foot the bill the play for them. It shows that we take care of our fans. Our way of giving back.

 

 

This is undercutting every single musician you'll ever meet...please understand the damage this does and re-assess your priorities.

 

Thank you.

[Locky]

Thoughs are the same charity gigs and shows for friends that i've been talking about this whole time.