new member from HB Drums

[wmcutter]

Still no answer from hbdrums on how they get North American and Canadian birch to China. I hate to be a pest but it's hard for me to believe that they ship N. Amer and Canada birch from here to China. Seems really expensive since the price of wood in this country has gone up...plus shipping.

Also on the DB site it does not mention what wood is used. Dave, sorry to put you on the spot, but until I can see something from the manufacturer about the construction of these kits that says "birch", I'll take it with a grain of salt.

[hbdrums]

We coop our factory with another high profile drum manufactuer that imports birch with us. Cost of raw materials is not the factor, rather labor costs in China where America has gone for labor force. Factory workers get paid the equivilent of less than a week of our average wages per month. The key is to get proper raw materials, make trips to our factory to ensure quality and attention to design specs and offer value to our clients.

Not diggin the negativity on this site so unless there are some direct and neighborly posted questioned to me without the uninformed inuendo and speculation posted, I don't feel compelled to participate....don't need the sales that badly nor the sniper attitudes...been around that mentality and it's not happening for me. Anyone that has operated a retail concern or factory in this industry is also welcome to reply but suspect they've long since exited...It appears critical thinking has hit critical mass here

PS RE: James - hbdrummer, who posted on this site and apparently purchased from us, ...pretty sad display of humanity by some in this group...almost a mob mentality...I'm sorry to have dropped in under the premise that an industry veteran and NAMM member of 30 years might be of some service and make drummers aware of HB as an option. I hope some of the enlightened members can shed some positivity to this group. Working with positive like minded individuals seeking improvement and knowledge, - a mastermind group- works wonders. Best wishes.

[wmcutter]

hbdrums, I find your last post incomprehensible. I spent almost 50 years in Marketing, Advertising and Public Relations. In my experience when a company introduces an unknown product they better be ready to answer some hard consumer questions. You seem to have interpreted pointed questions from interested, potential customers as an attack. You accuse us of mob mentality and sniping. Most of us are simply potential buyers who would not buy any product from anyone without investigating the product first.

 

I, for one, am sorry you feel this way. However, things started to go against you from the beginning. While you appreciate James' comments, his posts hurt you rather than helped. His posts were too overdone and were questioned. A logical reaction. Also, we haven't even asked the more relevant questions: What are the bearing edges? Do they have reinforcment hoops? What are the lugs made of? etc..... I'm aware that we are not talking about high end drums but no drummer is going to lay out good money without getting answers to these questions. I'm sorry if you feel attacked but in business you better be ready to answer some tough questions.

[wmcutter]

Crash, when you get your Duke kit, try to forget everything bad said in this thread. Give the kit the most objective evaluation you can. We look forward to it. Thanks and good luck.

[agogobill]

We coop our factory with another high profile drum manufactuer that imports birch with us. Cost of raw materials is not the factor, rather labor costs in China where America has gone for labor force. Factory workers get paid the equivilent of less than a week of our average wages per month. The key is to get proper raw materials, make trips to our factory to ensure quality and attention to design specs and offer value to our clients. Not diggin the negativity on this site so unless there are some direct and neighborly posted questioned to me without the uninformed inuendo and speculation posted, I don't feel compelled to participate....don't need the sales that badly nor the sniper attitudes...been around that mentality and it's not happening for me. Anyone that has operated a retail concern or factory in this industry is also welcome to reply but suspect they've long since exited...It appears critical thinking has hit critical mass here PS RE: James - hbdrummer, who posted on this site and apparently purchased from us, ...pretty sad display of humanity by some in this group...almost a mob mentality...I'm sorry to have dropped in under the premise that an industry veteran and NAMM member of 30 years might be of some service and make drummers aware of HB as an option. I hope some of the enlightened members can shed some positivity to this group. Working with positive like minded individuals seeking improvement and knowledge, - a mastermind group- works wonders. Best wishes.

 

I'm trying to put this in a nice way, but it's just not good "netiquette" to have a sales pitch as your first post to a drum forum. And it was a sales pitch, you cannot deny that.

 

A better way of indoctrinating yourself into the "community" would have been to post more as a drummer and not a dealer. You could have posted to some of the existing threads - let people get to know you as being a drummer and sharing interests, and then when asked about your background, you could have posted about your business and success with the sales of your HB drums.

 

You started off on the wrong foot. Hang around and get to know people. Let them get to know you. Certainly, by having 30 years in the business, you could share some of your observations - what's been your ups and downs, what do/don't you appreciate about your customers, your suppliers, major drum manufacturers, etc.

 

And most importantly, what kind of drumsticks do you use?

[HBdrummer]

http://www.myspace.com/drumz4jesusjgYeah, wmcutter and gang.. it's true that I can be a bit over the top at times and I regret some of the quite mindless banter that I engaged in. I meant absolutely no malice toward anyone I had exchanged childish dialog with.

Yeah.. again it is true that my initial post was suspect of being a p-poor sales pitch for this company. I apologise to Mr. Moody for any "harm" I may have inflicted, allbeit unintentional. Dave I know what you and your company are all about and I think you should be commended for your above and beyond the call of duty customer service. I'm sorry for your sake how this posting turned on you. I believe your intent to be good. To all others.. NOW HEAR THIS. My experience with hb has been a pleasure from day 1. I have nothing bad to say about Mr. Moody. He designs and sell a great sounding set of real birch drums for real world working drummers at a price that you simply cannot beat. I will continue to patronize hb proudly..with no compensation. I am sorry this thread started off sounding like a big sales pitch by me. What can I say.. My dollars spent with HB were some of the best and wisest spent! PLAY WHAT YOU LOVE AND LOVE WHAT YOU PLAY

[John Flynn]

Hey James (HBdrummer). A few comments ...

 

Checked out your set on myspace. Looks much nicer, although I can't see the bigger pic since I don't have an account.

 

I was a bit surprised to learn that you're a believer. Please don't take that the wrong way. It's just that you did get off to a rocky start around here

 

Anyway, I guess I know now that you're being honest about your enthusiasm for HB drums. That is, assuming you're being honest about your faith. It was just very odd (and strange timing) the way you jumped into the thread right after the owner of HB drums posted for the first time.

 

Anyway, I don't really know what I'm trying to say here (it's getting late & I'm getting tired)

 

It's just nice to meet other Christians on these forums

[slap happy drums]

This has been a fun read , I gotta say I'd still go pacific or used "big name" for drums in that price range. , OT but not allot of talk round here about the buyers market that is used drums...... But I do now know more about HB drums than I did before. WM Cutter I like the cut of your jib....if old maritime references still fly round here....assuming they ever did....can a maritime reference fly? would it have wings or a propulsion unit? Perhaps it'd glide. Perhaps I should have stopped typing by now. Anyway good to see everybody playing nice , with no Tanno-yness left in sight

[HBdrummer]

Yeah you know, I really wanted everyone interested to see my pics on this site, for the life of me I can't get my pics file(s) to upload! Yeah, John Flynn,

my sharp tongue isn't very fitting for a Christian man, and I have deleted one post in question. I am ashamed at the way I acted and sounded. Hope It can be forgotten by you guys. I know Someone else already forgave me. But enough on that talk, this is a drummer forum. I don't want to raise any more hackles. But yeah man, I'm being for real when it comes to my enthusiasm for HB drums! Finally a birch kit with some pro features that I can afford to own! I'm going to continue to try to post some pics. Peace to all!

BTW., I am going to be 45 years old later this month! Does that qualify my right in the Geezer Guild??

[HBdrummer]

'click'

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

doh!

[drumtechdad]

Still no answer from hbdrums on how they get North American and Canadian birch to China. I hate to be a pest but it's hard for me to believe that they ship N. Amer and Canada birch from here to China. Seems really expensive since the price of wood in this country has gone up...plus shipping. Also on the DB site it does not mention what wood is used. Dave, sorry to put you on the spot, but until I can see something from the manufacturer about the construction of these kits that says "birch", I'll take it with a grain of salt.

 

Happens all the time. Pearl uses North American maple to make shells in Taiwan, for example.

[drumtechdad]

I'm trying to put this in a nice way, but it's just not good "netiquette" to have a sales pitch as your first post to a drum forum. And it was a sales pitch, you cannot deny that. A better way of indoctrinating yourself into the "community" would have been to post more as a drummer and not a dealer. You could have posted to some of the existing threads - let people get to know you as being a drummer and sharing interests, and then when asked about your background, you could have posted about your business and success with the sales of your HB drums. You started off on the wrong foot. Hang around and get to know people. Let them get to know you. Certainly, by having 30 years in the business, you could share some of your observations - what's been your ups and downs, what do/don't you appreciate about your customers, your suppliers, major drum manufacturers, etc. And most importantly, what kind of drumsticks do you use?

 

Perhaps it's all a grand coincidence. But I know that on several other boards I visit, a first post by a new member that turns out to be a sales pitch, followed by another first post by another new member vouching for the same product--would have been deleted on sight. For obvious reasons.

[SkiAz4Free]

I've been just sitting back on this with not a whole lot to mention until now. One thing that the forum members should try to consider is that not everyone who posts, especially a first timer, knows what the ettiquette is. As soon as someone does something that is out of the normal flow of things, it quickly becomes a riot situation where eveyone chimes in with their $.02 and takes pot shots until submission.

 

For the seller, they are constantly trying to increase their marketplace. What better avenue than a specified forum about the specified product? Maybe there should be a dedicated "Sales Pitch" thread that a new seller can do their best to make us believe that we need their product, and nobody on the forum can bitch about "why are you making a sales pitch?" IT would be a centralized place for us to go "shopping".

 

Just a thought, not taking any one side. Perhaps HB drummer was surfing the net for HB Drums and stumbled upon this forum. Saw that the HB Drums guy posted and wallah! There's enough of an invitation to chime in right there.

 

However!! We as the skeptical buyer will make very attempt to get to the bottom of the information, and that sometimes means that the gloves come off. It's easier for us to be tough behind an ASCII curtain. I gaurandammtee that if we had been sitting in a conference room with all of our little conversations, and two dudes walk in selling something we would all be a little more polite. But if someone came in and beat their chest "ME LIKE PANCAKE, ME LIKE TO WASH ME VIBE IN MRS BUTTERWORTHS", then there's gonna be some smackdown a happenin.

 

I am curious to hear a review by an existing member because I'm pretty sure there will be no fluff. Would a completely rave review of HB drums convince me to go out and buy one? Nope. BUT, the next time someone asks about them, I am now a little more informed, and can give some reference.

 

See how it all comes together when we're not trying to beat everyone down?

 

my $.02

[HBdrummer]

Ski hit it right on the head (no pun) I was indeed searching the net for maybe another soul who had purchased a set of these drums..just to see how they felt about their purchase.. I had NO intent on infiltrating a forum on drums by trying to sell somebody something! It really was just a "grand coinsidence" Again, I know my initial post to CrashStitches DID sound like a cheesy sales pitch for HB. I'm sorry that it did sound that way. And NO, I was not aware of "forum ediquette" I am new to music forums and apologize for not being in the know. I will no longer boast about what a great deal I think I got when I got this new kit. I probably will not be posting anything on this thread anymore. Sorry for having offended! PLAY WHAT YOU LOVE AND LOVE WHAT YOU PLAY!!! Peace owt:wave:

[drumtechdad]

 

I've been just sitting back on this with not a whole lot to mention until now. One thing that the forum members should try to consider is that not everyone who posts, especially a first timer, knows what the ettiquette is. As soon as someone does something that is out of the normal flow of things, it quickly becomes a riot situation where eveyone chimes in with their $.02 and takes pot shots until submission. For the seller, they are constantly trying to increase their marketplace. What better avenue than a specified forum about the specified product? Maybe there should be a dedicated "Sales Pitch" thread that a new seller can do their best to make us believe that we need their product, and nobody on the forum can bitch about "why are you making a sales pitch?" IT would be a centralized place for us to go "shopping". Just a thought, not taking any one side. Perhaps HB drummer was surfing the net for HB Drums and stumbled upon this forum. Saw that the HB Drums guy posted and wallah! There's enough of an invitation to chime in right there. However!! We as the skeptical buyer will make very attempt to get to the bottom of the information, and that sometimes means that the gloves come off. It's easier for us to be tough behind an ASCII curtain. I gaurandammtee that if we had been sitting in a conference room with all of our little conversations, and two dudes walk in selling something we would all be a little more polite. But if someone came in and beat their chest "ME LIKE PANCAKE, ME LIKE TO WASH ME VIBE IN MRS BUTTERWORTHS", then there's gonna be some smackdown a happenin. I am curious to hear a review by an existing member because I'm pretty sure there will be no fluff. Would a completely rave review of HB drums convince me to go out and buy one? Nope. BUT, the next time someone asks about them, I am now a little more informed, and can give some reference. See how it all comes together when we're not trying to beat everyone down? my $.02

 

 

Hey this is all fine, SkiAz4Free, I don't mean to offend anyone here, but when you say "What better avenue than a specified forum about the specified product?" you miss two points.

 

One, do you really want anybody who wants to allowed to drop advertisements for posts here? There wouldn't be any forum left.

 

More to the point, every forum I know of has a rule such as the following:

 

"3. Non Commercial Use by Members. The Website is for the personal use of individual Members only and may not be used in connection with any commercial endeavors except as noted in section (5f) below. Organizations, companies, and/or businesses may not become Members without written permission from Harmony Central or its agents, although individuals within organizations, companies, and/or businesses are encouraged to become members. Illegal and/or unauthorized uses of the Website, including collecting usernames and/or email addresses of members by electronic or other means for the purpose of sending unsolicited email and unauthorized framing of or linking to the Website will be investigated, and appropriate legal action will be taken, including without limitation, civil, criminal, and injunctive redress."

 

That came directly from the HC faq at the top of the page, something I read before I posted here, and something everyone should read before posting here.

 

Similar language exists on every forum I frequent. And as I said in an earlier post, this technique of having a first-poster drop an advertisement on a forum, followed by a sockpuppet lauding the same product is very common in forums, and usually earns you automatic deletion.

 

So if it's all a coincidence, and if hbdrums didn't read the faq and was utterly ignorant of the rules (not to mention the appearances) followed by HBdrummer not being aware of what his post looked like (sockpuppetry) then fine, I apologize and everything's cool.

 

You should understand, however, that had this happened on another forum these posts would have been deleted, no questions asked, despite the good intentions of hbdrums and HBdrummer.

[robertjm]

FYI

There are 4 or 5 reviews of the HB predator drums on musicGearReview.com.

Overall, they are mostly favorable except for the cymbals and the high-hat.

I am new to forums so I do not know if this is a legit site or not. They do have reviews of most other drum makers as well. The reviews do not appear to be artificial endorsements, and seemed balanced, but what do I know.

[HBdrummer]

Aint no spamage. And.. Yeah folks...They are birrrch! Word up, wmcutter! BTW., The snare and 13" tom are in refinishing process. Peace to all!

[CrashStitches]

 

Not diggin the negativity on this site so unless there are some direct and neighborly posted questioned to me without the uninformed inuendo and speculation posted, I don't feel compelled to participate....don't need the sales that badly nor the sniper attitudes...been around that mentality and it's not happening for me. .

 

You don't need the sales? An unknown businessman comes into a thread he starts to support his unknown products, and then says this? Then why spam the board? I don't appreciate this attitude, especially since I just dropped my hard-earned money with your company (something I will NEVER do again, see why below). Let me explain something to you. You have an unknown product, and people like myself are doing the best they can to get answers about a very important decision (where to spend money on your instrument). You have a poor site with horrible photoshopped pictures (another pet peeve..If you actually have a showroom, TAKE SOME PICS OF YOUR STOCK SO PEOPLE WON'T BE RELYING ON YOUR 3RD GRADE PHOTOSHOP HACKS). Your site has no sound samples either, but I saw a {censored}load of bravado about how great your product is for joes like myself. Is this not true? Since it is indeed true, and you made yourself available on this site right at the time I bought my kit, you have some answering to do. And on that note...

 

I got my drums today, and I'm a bit less than pleased. Your quality control is obviously minimal, and I doubt you ever laid eyes, much less "inspected" the kit I was sent. Do you just drop-ship from China? Or do you just take an order, point at a box, and throw it on the truck, unopened from China?

 

- The kit arrived at my apartment door today while I was at work. 2 days sooner than I expected, I was very pleased and excited to start digging in.

- My first impression upon opening the box was of t-rods and washers being spread all over the box from 2 ripped-open bags. Hmmm, indeed a minor annoyance, but an auspicious start to be sure.

- Upon inspecting the shipped-assembled snare, noticed that the PLIES ARE SEPARATING IN NO LESS THAN 5 PLACES on the bottom bearing edge.

- And speaking of bearing edges, there are dents, gouges, and flat spots all over these tom edges.

- The bass hoops are indeed metal. Didn't expect this when I ordered, since HB touts this as their top of the line, and the Predator Elite series has wood hoops. And these flimsy suckers literally rattle like old hula hoops (like there are small pebbles inside them). The hoops themselves are wrapped with a white sticker to match the wrap on the shells. And the hoop wrap was hanging off one of the hoops.

- Oh, speaking of the bass drum. I was shipped a set of mismatched bass t-rods. The drum has 10 lugs per side, and I somehow received 16 handle-ended rods and 4 regular keyed rods.

- The inside finish isn't just "less than exemplary" like HBdrummer said. There are actually chips inside the shells around screws and nuts.

 

 

Despite all this, I forged ahead and assembled the kit. I'll be hauling it to the rehearsal studio and jamming later this week, so we'll see how the most important aspect is: the sound. I sure as hell hope it sounds great, because I've been very let down so far on the purchase that I was the most excited about over the last good handful of years.

 

If I had to do it all over again, I'd have spent the extra $120 or so and gotten a Tama Rockstar shell kit or Gretsch Catalina.

 

But like I said, if it sounds great, the impact of the shoddy QC will be lessened somewhat (until it starts falling apart). There are 2 kits in my rehearsal space to compare it to soundwise. A cheap no-name stencil kit and an Export kit. I'm gonna be listening closely to which one it has more in common with...while I hope for the best, I'm now prepared for the worst, and my enthusiasm has dampened considerably.

[John Flynn]

Hey crash, sorry to hear about the bad start If it's any consolation, I collect watches (yeah, I know ... weird huh). Although you'd be surprised how many people do this.

 

Anyway, I've bought around 4 different Chinese made watches over the years. The big problem with Chinese made watches is a total lack of QC! Cosmetically that is. But as far as the performance, not all that bad.

 

So while the shells might look like crap, there's still hope they may actually sound halfway decent. I wish you luck

 

OT - $100 chinese made watch. The only one out of the 4 that I received without any QC issuies. But the other 3 did run well, and kept very good time (mechanical movements). So, there is hope!

[HBdrummer]

Man Crash, Sorry to hear about the bad condition your kettles arrived to you in! I had a similar problem with the bag of hardware! and the box the shells were shipped in looked like it was kicked down a few flights of stairs! No major shell flaws like yours! wow. I figured that FedX was to fault for the shoddy handling of my package. I don't know what shipping costs to Cali., but if you can do without them for now... Have hb make it right for you!

My kit sounds fantastic. What kinda heads are you going with?

[CrashStitches]

Man Crash, Sorry to hear about the bad condition your kettles arrived to you in! I had a similar problem with the bag of hardware! and the box the shells were shipped in looked like it was kicked down a few flights of stairs! No major shell flaws like yours! wow. I figured that FedX was to fault for the shoddy handling of my package. I don't know what shipping costs to Cali., but if you can do without them for now... Have hb make it right for you! My kit sounds fantastic. What kinda heads are you going with?

 

Gonna rock the stockers for a few days. I'll decide what to switch them to after payday.

 

Ironically, the catalog they sent to me had pictures of a Duke kit with *gasp* wood hoops. No wonder I'm confused...

[CrashStitches]

Hey crash, sorry to hear about the bad start If it's any consolation, I collect watches (yeah, I know ... weird huh). Although you'd be surprised how many people do this. Anyway, I've bought around 4 different Chinese made watches over the years. The big problem with Chinese made watches is a total lack of QC! Cosmetically that is. But as far as the performance, not all that bad. So while the shells might look like crap, there's still hope they may actually sound halfway decent. I wish you luck OT - $100 chinese made watch. The only one out of the 4 that I received without any QC issuies. But the other 3 did run well, and kept very good time (mechanical movements). So, there is hope!

 

I'm hoping this will be the case. I'm much more of a function-over-fashion guy anyways. I'm not going to return it, it's not worth the expense to ship it back. Just gonna plow ahead with it, give it a good thrashing.

 

 

FWIW, I took some pics earlier. I'll post em after I get em onto my computer.

[agogobill]

Thanks for the heads-up, Crash ... shame your experience turned out like that. Hopefully things will be made right for you.

 

 

... - Oh, speaking of the bass drum. I was shipped a set of mismatched bass t-rods. The drum has 10 lugs per side, and I somehow received 16 handle-ended rods and 4 regular keyed rods. ...

 

 

The reason for that is that the keyed rods will go into the bottom two lugs, front and back. That is so they will turn freely when the drum is normally set up on its side - if they were regular rods, the handles would catch on the floor or rug.

[zarazabas]

 

I'm hoping this will be the case. I'm much more of a function-over-fashion guy anyways. I'm not going to return it, it's not worth the expense to ship it back. Just gonna plow ahead with it, give it a good thrashing. FWIW, I took some pics earlier. I'll post em after I get em onto my computer.

 

 

If you ask me, any company that sends you an inferior quality product should refund your money including the cost of shipping it back. And if it was me, that's exactly what i would be demanding.

[slap happy drums]

I'm curious to see what Crash thought of the sound , and I'm really curious to see what HB does for him if he's still not happy. Customer satisfaction is big stuff for a business , let's see what HB's commitment to it is like. I think Zarazabas hit it on the head , if you tag on HB's right to try and replace the kit.