Members The Professiona Posted May 13, 2012 Members Share Posted May 13, 2012 Hey,I was just curious to hear some drummers' (as in, not sales reps' or music stores') opinions and perspectives on paying more money for higher quality cymbals. This is more of just a question of curiosity than anything else. I recently bought a Sabian AAX 21" Dry Raw Bell Ride, and loved it, but got talked down to a bit for not spending the extra $70 on the HHX version of it. And at the end of the day, I could hear the difference in tone and timbre, but not necessarily a difference in quality, and just thought the AAX was perfectly fine. So I'm curious what you guys think about this type of upgrade. I don't mean the difference between brands, and I don't mean the difference between Sabian's B8 series and their HH series. Obviously, there are "starter" cymbals. I'm talking about more of the higher-ish lines and their differences. For instance, have you (drummers) typically found it worthwhile to pay the extra $50 - $150 for an upgrade of a similar cymbal from Sabian's AAX line to their HHX line ? Or from Zildjian's A Custom to their K Custom line? thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted May 13, 2012 Members Share Posted May 13, 2012 I have have a couple A crashes and hats and several standard/generic Zildjian crashes, rides and hats. I use the crashes and hats but for rides, a B8 pro and a B8 standard. I also have a cheap brass - yes brass Paiste ride that I pull out on occasion. They're just sounds but I value them for their place in my craft. Ks would be welcome but would also sound very different and would have to be incorporated as such. Now as to exclusive stuff, a lone Paiste Signature 17" fast crash comes to mind. It sounds absolutely gorgeous but has always been ridiculously priced - never got one. Some years back got to hear one in a band situation on a pretty much regular basis and frankly it got to overbearing. Every crash is that same uniquely identifiable standout sound. All tits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fusionfunk Posted May 13, 2012 Members Share Posted May 13, 2012 Do you prefer New York Strip, Sirloin, Filet, or Delmonico? Musical taste, like taste for food, is a personal thing. If I like the sound of a particular cymbal, and it fits the music/situation that I'm using it for, I'll buy it, regardless of how little or how much it costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NBarnes21 Posted May 13, 2012 Members Share Posted May 13, 2012 I've never thought the AAX to be any lower quality than the HHX, they're just different sounds. HHX's are generally darker, and more expensive to make I guess, but no "better", just "different". AAX's are still top notch quality wise though IMO and if I liked brighter cymbals I wouldn't hesitate to go with that line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kmart Posted May 13, 2012 Members Share Posted May 13, 2012 When talking AAX vs HHX, the difference is solely tone/character, not build quality, and anybody who tells you different is angling for increased sales/commissionsoff pf your gullability, period. Same between Paiste 2002 and Signature or Zildjian A Custom vs K Custom, etc. I say this as a player of more than 25 years and someone who used to sell them all for a living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Professiona Posted May 13, 2012 Author Members Share Posted May 13, 2012 I didn't take what the guy said to heart - I've been in commission sales before and knew what he was doing. My question was more about (and maybe I'll clarify here!): Do drummers actually hear a dollar-increase in quality difference between these various "higher quality" cymbals. Because whether or not you hear it, there is a $$ difference between AAX and HHX, and between A Custom & K Custom. If you don't hear it, and overwhelmingly, if drummers don't really hear that $$ difference, then how do the companies get away with charging more? Now, I haven't done a lot of research lately on cymbal building, but are there actually more dollars put into the creation of those "highest quality" cymbals (work hours, more expensive machinery, etc) that justify an actual cost difference? Or is it just a sales ploy, and quite frankly, the cymbals should cost exactly the same? When talking AAX vs HHX, the difference is solely tone/character, not build quality, and anybody who tells you different is angling for increased sales/commissionsoff pf your gullability, period.Same between Paiste 2002 and Signature or Zildjian A Custom vs K Custom, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted May 13, 2012 Members Share Posted May 13, 2012 I'd guess a little of alladat. Ks vs As for instance - different brothers as I recall. Ks were out of production or something but highly prized for their tone. Instant higher price. A customs, VC approved modifications. Higher price. Paistes might be a little different. They feature strict MFG tolerances and promise the cymbals will be consistent in tone and response across any model line. The original Sound Seven series I recall was introduced to present a set of (then) special effect colors. Exclusive content, higher price. As to manufacturing costs I think it boils down to how much they GAF about the results. Extra cost would be in the form of any extra or unusual step in the process. IOW anything costing them that they can turn into profit as the product settles into its market position. I prolly said nothing but that's what retail value amounts to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zildjian@consol Posted May 13, 2012 Members Share Posted May 13, 2012 The drummer picks.Just bought a new AAX Memphis ride.I normally don't buy new,but they made me a good deal.I use 2002's crashes mixed in with B20 cymbals. It doesn't bother me at all,because I know it's the talent behind the kit that makes the biggest difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the DW Posted May 13, 2012 Members Share Posted May 13, 2012 One more vote for "different, not better". When I was buying my current ride, I was in the cymbal room of the store for quite a while, and finally decided on a Zildjian K ride (don't remember which one) which was about $220 at the time. I walked out of the room with the cymbal, and noticed a Sabian AAX Dry Ride on a display kit in the main showroom. I walked over and hit it and then made a bee line back to the cymbal room to put the K back. I bought that display AAX and saved $60 for what I felt was a better sounding cymbal.... to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boomerweps Posted May 13, 2012 Members Share Posted May 13, 2012 It's all about the sound. Some cheap cymbals have a sound I adore. For some reason, I've always liked the Sabian 18" B8 crash/ride for dual purpose at low volume gigs. Normally I use Paiste Signature series. Got into them after trying out a 20" Heavy dry ride. Went with the fast crashes in 16" & 18", Got a good deal on a 17" mellow crash but it's limited in it's volume range for sounding good. Still using a pair of 20 year old Paiste 3000 14" heavy hats, don't know how I'd ever replace them ;>(. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members danrothmusic Posted May 13, 2012 Members Share Posted May 13, 2012 I'm with everybody else on this one--once you're past "starter" cymbals, it's all about different sounds, not better quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kmart Posted May 13, 2012 Members Share Posted May 13, 2012 Now, I haven't done a lot of research lately on cymbal building, but are there actually more dollars put into the creation of those "highest quality" cymbals (work hours, more expensive machinery, etc) that justify an actual cost difference? Or is it just a sales ploy, and quite frankly, the cymbals should cost exactly the same? No, they shouldn't all necessarily cost the same:Different alloys.Different manufacturing processes in some cases.Etc. Owever, you'll find that SOME lines of the same general quality do have the same pricing. Paiste, for example, has same price points for same size cymbals across man of their 'pro' lines, excluding only the Signatures, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rdrummer322 Posted May 13, 2012 Members Share Posted May 13, 2012 I use lots of cymbals. Most are all Zildjian A's from the time when that was the best. But lately I have added whatever was "different". I would go to the local music store and compare cymbals, looking for sounds that were different. I ended up with lots of lower quality stuff, yet it served an exact purpose. When you can get splashes that match in tonal qualities for under 20 bucks each (this is after trying out dozens), chinas that have a tonal relationship to each other (even if the're cheap) then you understand the purpose of brass in your set-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members danrothmusic Posted May 13, 2012 Members Share Posted May 13, 2012 But lately I have added whatever was "different". I would go to the local music store and compare cymbals, looking for sounds that were different. I ended up with lots of lower quality stuff, yet it served an exact purpose. When you can get splashes that match in tonal qualities for under 20 bucks each (this is after trying out dozens), chinas that have a tonal relationship to each other (even if the're cheap) then you understand the purpose of brass in your set-up. That's a neat way of looking at it. I don't think I've ever actually considered how my cymbals sound together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twosticks Posted May 14, 2012 Members Share Posted May 14, 2012 AAX is machine hammered cymbal and made to cut through and have a little bit more of an edge than a typical AA series. The HHX is a Hand Hammered cymbal which takes a little longer to make and most likely the reason the slightly higher cost. Most HH's are a little darker and warmer. HHX's are supposed to project a little more than regular HH's. It is NOT an upgrade! It's what you prefer! If you play hard rock and loud, you might want AAX, if you play more Jazz or soul, then you might want the HHX, BUT BUT BUT you can play any kind of music with any kind of cymbal and if you love the cymbals then that's all that counts! You cannot tell the difference with your ears expect that one may be brighter or darker than the other. Is close to buying a five piece set with smaller toms and a set with bigger toms, the bigger toms might be slightly more because of the extra material but is not an "Upgrade" it's what you like. Do NOT ever be forced to buy something you don't want! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FitchFY Posted May 14, 2012 Members Share Posted May 14, 2012 My question was more about (and maybe I'll clarify here!): Do drummers actually hear a dollar-increase in quality difference between these various "higher quality" cymbals. Because whether or not you hear it, there is a $$ difference between AAX and HHX, and between A Custom & K Custom. If you don't hear it, and overwhelmingly, if drummers don't really hear that $$ difference, then how do the companies get away with charging more? I hear it, but I don't know if I agree with your phrasing. But words aside, yeah, I can hear why an HHX Evolution Ride would cost more than an AAX Stage Ride. There's certain elements that go into cymbals that may not go into another, and those cost money. I have a 20" HHX Evolution Ride and a 21" AAX Stage Ride. Love `em both, use them for totally different projects, and would fully expect the HHX Evolution to cost more. So I guess... yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cdawg Posted May 14, 2012 Members Share Posted May 14, 2012 buy what you like. as simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gremson Posted May 15, 2012 Members Share Posted May 15, 2012 Yup. Just like the others say, trust your ears. I've heard some local drummers make a great space for B8s in their setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soundcreation Posted May 15, 2012 Members Share Posted May 15, 2012 as twosticks mentioned.....the HH line costs more because they are hand hammered...(hence HH).....and the manufacturing time is longer. Simple as that. Or at least that's sabian's justification for higher prices I would think. [video=youtube;1wqJ9KDfcME] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Professiona Posted May 15, 2012 Author Members Share Posted May 15, 2012 Cool, I think my question's been answered. And yes, I did buy what I liked, not what someone wanted to sell me, it was just a question of curiosity more than anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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