finding the non-flakes

[fllstck]

why are there so many flakey musicians? How come no one can read music?

 

argh!

 

How do you guys/gals get past the losers, jerks and flakes to get something going quickly/efficently as possible?

[jonosing]

Sounds like you have high standards. You're going to have to go through a bunch of idiots to make it to the people you're looking for. I would suggest when talking to others about coming on board, you should be as specific as humanly possible about your goals, desires, and expectations from other musicians.

 

For alot of people, music is a hobby, and people who can read and are real gun-slingers are in short supply.

[Outkaster]

Originally posted by fllstck why are there so many flakey musicians? How come no one can read music? argh! How do you guys/gals get past the losers, jerks and flakes to get something going quickly/efficently as possible?

 

 

Well I think the problem is people learn easy instuments like guitar first. Not that it is easy but everyone and their freakin brother picks up one and that narrows the gap even further. Most people don't learn to read and that can do them a diservice later on. Especially if you want to take it a step further.

 

Musicians are flakey because they often let their personal lives interfere with music and that takes a toll on the band memebers that are actually trying to achieve something. I also find them way inconsistant and untrustworty. That has been mentioned a lot of times around here. They have alot of {censored} with them and I personally have felt like jacking them up at times. I have a former guitarist calling me all the time to get into a band with him again and I would never play with him because he does under handed {censored}. It's too bad there are so many of them out there, it really is.

[Treves]

 

Originally posted by fllstck How do you guys/gals get past the losers, jerks and flakes to get something going quickly/efficently as possible?

 

 

Network like hell. Jam with lots of people - you know the good musicians are out there, you just have to meet them!!

[cynthdoesrock]

THat's what I do , network like hell.

And ya, say everything you desire up front.

A lot of people dream of being a musician but don't want to do the work.

I've also noticed almost everyone lets their personal lives interfere, very frustrating.

Keep the attitude that you are always free to meet and jam with others, that way doors are always open to explore, and if someone backs out on you you are not left stranded.

There's a lot of wanna-be's out there!

 

Unfortunately you can't do it in a hurry.

You can't rush a musical endeavor, it never works out (not for me).

[Tedddy]

diftin through the garbage, just siftin through the garbage

[BlueStrat]

 

Originally posted by Tedddy diftin through the garbage, just siftin through the garbage

 

There are so many flaky musicians because it's one of the few jobs you can make get paid for while you drink, dope, and chase skirt. There is (usually) no one in charge of what you do, so it attracts people who are generally more irresponsible personally and who have a lot of baggage they can let loose at the club and at rehearsal that would get them canned from their day gig.

 

 

Three guys in my band read music. Only one has used it in what we do, and that's to write out horn parts. If you can read a simple chart, that's usually enough unless you plan on playing with the orchestra or a big band.

[EcHoplex]

 

why are there so many flakey musicians?How come no one can read music?

 

 

Usually, it's due to one thing and one thing alone: LAZINESS and all the other things that follow it: Lack of discipline, dedication and focus.

 

 

How do you guys/gals get past the losers, jerks and flakes to get something going quickly/efficently as possible?

 

 

If only such terms like quickly and efficiently applied when forming a band and finding the right musicians. No doubt about it, this business will try your patience at every turn but, I agree with what was said earlier, about networking with as many people as you can and keeping your options open. Prepare yourself mentally for the inevitable: Flakes & Bozo's, cause you'll be meeting more of them let me assure you. Just remember to keep a positive attitude about everything. You have to be relentless and work past all the disappointments. If you're a good player and have your life in order, you'll find an opportunity. The good players always do.

[gdc9977]

People get into music for different reasons. Some just for the sake of getting chicks. it doesnt make sense then to learn to read music if music is not your main objective.

[Outkaster]

 

Originally posted by gdc9977 People get into music for different reasons. Some just for the sake of getting chicks. it doesnt make sense then to learn to read music if music is not your main objective.

 

 

Yeah I think it was a 2 part question. If you are getting into music to meet chicks that is sad because it never really happens that much. It is overated. You can meet women anywhere.

[rangerkarlos]

 

Originally posted by Outkaster You can meet women anywhere.

 

 

But guitar players have thier pick!

[Kingnome]

I think the musical community is no different than the art community or the dance or acting community. They're all filled with creative, eccentric people trying to find a way through life without having to actually grow up. To some extent, I think we're all a bunch of immature dreamers, but without the dreamers there would be no progress.

[12AT7A]

I'd have to say I got into music cause it's what I love to do and I've been surrounded with it all my life... the chick part, well, it hasn't worked for me yet and I've been in a band for 8 years... oh well, as long as I'm playing music, I'm happy.

[miand]

The more you search the easier it will be to weed out the wanna-be's.

 

Some danger signs to look for...

 

1.) Singers who don't own a PA....

2.) People without decent gear....

3.) People with huge egos....

4.) Those who speak of record deals and being close if they could only find a band to play their stuff because - it's that good!....

5.) People without jobs or cars.

6.) Musicians w/o a demo.

7.) People who brag about their experience and repeat the same stories over and over and over....

8.) Alcoholics....so many, many people who drink and dream but don't actually practice....

 

I give everyone the benefit of the doubt - but you can usually tell if they're even worth a listen to over the phone.

 

Mike.

[kingsaw]

Originally posted by fllstck why are there so many flakey musicians? How come no one can read music? argh! How do you guys/gals get past the losers, jerks and flakes to get something going quickly/efficently as possible?

 

Being able to read music has nothing to do with being a good musician or songwriter. I could give you a thousand examples.

[Wareyin]

 

Originally posted by NOTHING CHANGES Being able to read music has nothing to do with being a good musician or songwriter. I could give you a thousand examples.

 

 

I wholeheartedly agree. In fact, I don't know how to read music. I have been curious at times to learn, but really, why? Not knowing how to read music has in no way hindered me musically.

What good is it, unless you play in an orchestra, or you work as a studio musician playing other people's music?

[Treves]

 

Originally posted by NOTHING CHANGES Being able to read music has nothing to do with being a good musician or songwriter. I could give you a thousand examples.

 

 

Very true, but notation is a very efficient method for transmitting musical ideas - much faster than me showing it to you (unless, of course, you have perfect pitch and a photographic memory).

 

I don't think the original post was saying that you have to be able to read music to be a good musician. It just makes life a little easier.

[Scheming Demon]

This is a very good topic and one that confronts every serious musician trying to assemble and maintain a group. Unfortunately it almost never goes away except in those rare intances where musicians find each other and carve out careers for 10, 20+ years.

 

And we know how many of them that are still around, what 5 or 6? Anyway it's a very small number.

 

Most of the suggestions and previous posts offer solid advice. However if you draw that line in the sand it may take extremely long or maybe never to find that missing individual. I can tell you from firsthand experience that you're very likely to lessen your standards after 1 or 2 years of looking for that someone and coming up empty. Then maybe someone with the talent who doesn't own a car becomes not so important anymore.

[bassman73]

Let me add some items about how difficult it is to find the right people for your musical project:

 

You meet a great, reliable, competent musician but...

 

- He/she is into heavy metal and you are into pop/rock

- You can only practice twice a week for 3 hours each time because you have a full time job, but he/she wants to rehearse 5 times a week for a total of 20 hours.

- Your objective is to play out once or twice a month, he/she wants to gig 3 times per week.

- You are into covers and maybe a few originals, he/she his 100% all original!

 

None of these things are bad, people are just looking for different things. Very frustrating indeed.

[BluesMan74]

Originally posted by fllstck why are there so many flakey musicians? How come no one can read music? argh! How do you guys/gals get past the losers, jerks and flakes to get something going quickly/efficently as possible?

 

 

hey man. the best of the best can;t read a lick of music.

 

this should not be equated with flakiness.

 

there are just some {censored}s out there.

 

the post about booze, dope and skirt is right on. i think.

 

i can not read at all, and am not flaky. reading music does a guy little good in blues or rock.

[jbh]

Originally posted by BluesMan74 hey man. the best of the best can;t read a lick of music. this should not be equated with flakiness. there are just some {censored}s out there. the post about booze, dope and skirt is right on. i think. i can not read at all, and am not flaky. reading music does a guy little good in blues or rock.

 

I'll even extend that point a little, and say that ability to read music has little to do with actually being able to play. I have a very good working knowledge of music theory, but couldn't sight read to save my life. I can learn something way faster by listening. I have no problem in most band situations. Anyway, I can count numerous times when I sat down to jam with people who could read anything, but could not seem to play with anyone else but themselves. They couldn't feel or hear the music at all - they could only see it.

 

I have a friend who can play a number of different instruments - not a virtuoso by any means, but the guy obviously has talent. One time I gave him a demo of my songs to pick out some bass parts. My music is rock/soul/bluesy/rootsy stuff - nothing complicated. Basic vamps in standard keys. When we finally got together to go over some songs he kept having to ask me what the roots were.

Give the guy some notation, however, and he's off to the races. Needless to say, we haven't done any music together since.

[Outkaster]

 

Originally posted by Wareyin I wholeheartedly agree. In fact, I don't know how to read music. I have been curious at times to learn, but really, why? Not knowing how to read music has in no way hindered me musically. What good is it, unless you play in an orchestra, or you work as a studio musician playing other people's music?

 

 

This always comes up and see what a difference it makes once you plateu as a musician? Then you will thank yourself for having some kind of training. I realize not everyone has access to it. The three things you mentioned are important and just give you more options as a musician.

[EcHoplex]

I agree with everyone in the general sense that learning to read music isn't a prerequisite for being a good musician necessarily. Indeed, many great songwriters and players over the years have proven that notion but, being able to read does make communication between players alot easier. I've played with guys who didn't know the difference between a quarter note, eighth note or a sixteenth note - they had no concept how to sub-divide notes or how to count into a measure properly and some didn't even know what a root, third, fifth or an octave are. Don't get me wrong, as I said before, a person doesn't need to be a virtuoso with reading but, some basic theory does help the process of communication move that much faster. Think of it this way, it's a system in which to better communicate things more articulately.

[lollycross]

WOW, I'm fairly new to this forum and I was surprised to

see you all agree as to all the flakes out there!. I have just

about given up and decided to try it o my own...recording c.d.'s and selling them on-line and at "craft fairs". THen I won't

have to deal with these-type of folks again.

Lolly

[fllstck]

Don't get me wrong, as I said before, a person doesn't need to be a virtuoso with reading but, some basic theory does help the process of communication move that much faster. Think of it this way, it's a system in which to better communicate things more articulately.

 

I concur wholeheartedly with this statement. If someone's a total bad-arse then reading music is just a bonus. However, I think it's like the difference between someone with a college degree and someone without both applying for a job in the business world: having it simply proves that you can hit the ground running and that you can finish or achieve something.

 

If you're just into jamming, it's fine to not read any music. I play in a band where we have to be able to read to communicate - horns in different keys, accordion, etc... learning to read music brought a lot of other opportunities to me just in the last year.

 

Someone else made a post about looking for that special someone who's perfect for you to work with. If you can both read music, there's at least one item on your compatability list.

 

And lastly, here's a little theory on the difference between those who do and don't read music. I wonder if it could be directly related to longevity of a career. What I mean is, regardless of chops, I wonder if all these stars that DON'T read a lick of music have much promise AFTER their bands break up. Example: someone like Marty Friedman can go on a work with ANYONE since the collapse of Megadeth. For someone like Larry of Primus, it's back to the ol' running- ads- in- the- paper-type method in hopes of finding another Les Claypool and Brain.

 

and before anyone starts baggin on me for the Larry vs. Friedman thing - I'm a fan of both... just a theory.