any roto tom players, rfdias, rdrummer (speak up, jim)

[cdawg]

i have been thinking of adding some rotos to my kit, mainly because i can't stand any of the "over the kick" configurations i've set up.

 

first, how do you know how to tune them? is there a sweet spot, like reg toms? what happens to the sound the more you detune (obviously not j.a.w., but looser than normal.)?

 

is there an inherent tone difference to the bigger toms, compared to the smaller ones? (i guess i'm looking for a comment on decay.)

 

finally, has anyone experimented with different heads? (thick vs. thin, overtone rings, etc.)

 

input appreciated.

[boomboomdrums]

I have a set of 6/8/10 roto toms. I got them in 1982 I think it was. I've used them off and on over the years. Presently I don't use them that much. They sound decent. Even without a shell they seem to get good volume and tone. I have mainly used the black dot heads they came with. I did replace one of the heads with a clear. It seems to ring a little more.

 

I mainly stopped using them because it makes my kit a lot bigger. The only real place I could figure to use them was with the biggest one over my mount tom and te 6 and 8 ovet my hi hat. then the cymbals have to be higher etc. I've gone to more of a straight ahead Charlie Watts type style of drumming and blues so I don't need them so much.

 

But sometime I do get them out. They are fun.

 

I've never used the big ones.

 

I did use them on the song "Nick Shafer" that is on my myspace page (link below).

[RumStik]

My full home setup includes two 14" roto's over/beyond the floor toms. There is a "sweet spot," but my two same-size units tune nicely about a third apart; roughly a fifth above the floors. The higher pitch and brighter tone is great for sprinkling articulate accents into runs and patterns along the low toms.

 

Sizes: I find the 6" & 8" of the typical 6/8/10 set essentially worthless, and the 10" isn't much better, unless popping and plinking sounds are what you're after. To my ear, 12, 14, & 16 sound the richest notes, and function well either as full-tom alternatives or companions.

 

Heads: After becoming a convert to single-ply heads for just about everything, I experimented pretty extensively with the roto heads, thinking single-plies would open 'em up and add tuning range, but it seemed the opposite is true. Lighter heads just made the 14's sound plinky like the 10's. In the end I went back to the stock Pinstripes, believe it or not, because they simply produce the most useful tone of everything I tried. My theory is that the rotos' tone and sustain is born mostly of head-center momentum, which probably explains why the CS-Dot heads that used to be stock on the (Remo) rotos also sound better than just about everything else you might try on them.

 

There's probably a lot more I can say on the subject...perhaps as it comes to me, time permitting.

 

[rdrummer322]

For what you want I would definitely go with either a 12 or 14 (probably a 14). The 16 and 18 tend to lose sustain about 30 feet away. They sound amazing up close and miced, but the 14 is best overall. The smaller ones do not tune low very well at all, thus unless you are looking for conga or bongo sounds stay away from them. For your purpose, pinstripe heads tightened up a little will sound great.

[melvinspeed]

Chris,

 

I used a 12" roto as "training wheels" when I converted to my one tom setup since I played a two or more tom setup my entire life. Dropped it after about 4 weeks.

 

I concur with what others have posted. You need the 12 or 14" sizes for decent sounding rack tom substitutes. They can get buried pretty easily in a full band setup so micing them may be necessary more often.

 

I didn't want the bright "boingy" tone of the single-ply clear heads (G Plus's). So I used an Onyx head. Really takes some overtones out and adds a bit darkness to the sound. Made rolls from the roto to the standard rack tom more cohesive.

[cdawg]

excellent!! you guys really gave me a ton of info!! thanks!!

 

i was thinking of using bigger ones, 12, 14, or 16. i've had the 6/8/10 combo before and didn't like the way they didn't really "mesh" with the rest of the kit, sound-wise. tyler, your comment about switching to the onyx reminded me of this.

 

judging from jim and rum's answers, i should prolly check out the 14's. good to know i can tune them differently without much tone loss.

 

 

so, has anyone used coated heads? would it just sound like a cardboard box??

 

also, what about those "shells" i've seen for them? anyone ever use/hear them?

[BeakerArk]

I've got 6/8/10. Have had 'em since '84. Digs 'em, but the problem is the same now as then. . .they don't project for {censored}.

[rdrummer322]

I tried a couple of the half-shells Remo put out in the late 70s. Waste of time and money, plus takes up extra space.

[RumStik]

 

would it just sound like a cardboard box??

 

 

Nope. Cardboard box sounds better.

 

That's one thing about having the 14's...just about everything that gets tried on the snare cycles to the roto's for testing as well...coated, vented, muffled...

 

I really wanted something else to work on them, because I like my voices as divergent as possible, (no 'cymbal matching' with me for example...the opposite, if anything). As mentioned, kept going back to clear, heavy, 2-ply, every time. Of everything I've tried, only the clear Pins, CS-Dots, and Emps produce useful, projected notes. Just about everything else produced 100% attack and little more.

[twosticks]

Agree with the others, really I would save your money. Even for the 14" the main thing is that they are a "one trick pony" they make that one cool sound and that's it.

 

I had the 6"-8"-10" trio that I bought from a guy that was selling it for his younger son. He had the pinstripe ebonys on it and they sounded pretty good, but I got to where I never used the 6" (way too boingy) and then they never gave me the sound of a small shelled tom (which is what I wanted) and they became "annoying" pretty quick. They're almost like a cowbell, they fit one sound and that's it. Plus is hard to find them now, let alone a 14". I say unless you're playing "Frankenstien" or this song from the :30 mark to the 2:10 Mark ALL THE TIME It's NOT, NOT worth it!

[video=youtube;MUt7qmSvxLI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUt7qmSvxLI&feature=player_embedded#!

[TheGirlfriend]

Well. I've played roto toms quite a few times. If you wanna know what kind or anything, you'll have to ask Gremson.

[the DW]

I can see the smaller Roto Toms in a percussion rig, mic'd.

[fusionfunk]

Back in the day, a dear friend had a set up like Bozzio, circa the early Zappa days, where the entire kit, toms wise, was roto's in every size they made, with conventional kicks and snare.

 

I played that kit a couple of times, but was never enamored with the sound of them.

 

Like many people, I've owned the 6"-8"-10" set up, but it didn't last long. I could never get them to blend well, sound wise, with the rest of the kit.

 

They are certainly a unique creation.

[rdrummer322]

In the early 80s I toured 6 nights a week with an 8 roto tom set, snare and bass. The absolute best thing about it was how small a room it needed to pack up and how small that large a set took up on the stage. The main reason I started on them was because they were way cheaper than adding real toms. I'm always about cheap. With tuning and micing you could get them to sound like anything you wanted for the most part (I used lots of duct tape back then). For what I do now I would prefer shelled drums, but really don't have the space.

[melvinspeed]

Like many people, I've owned the 6"-8"-10" set up, but it didn't last long. I could never get them to blend well, sound wise, with the rest of the kit.

 

Not that I'm carrying the torch for rotos (I'll leave that to Jim). It sounds like the consensus is the 6-8-10 arrangement is the LEAST useful. The larger sizes I've found are more versatile and interesting.... as a diversion. Not something my current music requires.

 

I think Eric Kretz was using them as rack toms recently.

 

[JakeTheSnake]

 

I think Eric Kretz was using them as rack toms recently.

 

 

The times I've seen Les Claypool live, Paulo Baldi was also doing this. Might be another place to look for some info.

[cdawg]

good call, jake, tyler.

 

yeah, i have no need for the smaller ones. like i said, i'm looking for a replacement for my rack toms.

[cdawg]

16":

http://www.steveweissmusic.com/product/roto-tom-16/bargain-drums

14":

http://www.amazon.com/Remo-14-Roto-Tom-Timpani/dp/B0002E1MTW

 

fyi

[mr. mohawk]

I use roto toms as my traveling kit. I made up a custom kit tailored around a 20x8 inch kick.

I made it from maple which I picked up from Billy Blast. The lugs were sand cast. Tension rods

hoops, and other hardware came from various suppliers. I used various head choices; oil-filled,

power stroke, and muffling to get a tight sound. With the hoops it is a 12in bass drum. I pondered

using an 18in.  Roto Tom which I have seen online. I also heard one which lacked the depth of

what a bass drum should sound like. Horrible! My Roto Tom set up consist of a 10, 14, and 16.

The peeve that I have with rotos are; 1. the absence of a wooden shell. 2. the ridiculous rail

mounting system and stands. Since I needed a kit that I wanted to fit into a suitcase, I made

some modifications. I had a metal fabricator make a mounting system that would eliminate

the rail, and become rack mountable. I also created 3/4 maple shell diffusers which add 

the depth lost by the open spoke. It also changes the look of the rotos, making them look like

a shelled tom-tom. the 16in is mounted to a snare stand which is a perfect location. 

The shells are removable, the toms are taken a part and fit into the kick drum along

with the shells which lay flat. I use a roland aluminum rack, which all of the drums and

cymbal stands attach. My snare drum and high-hats are carried on in a bowling ball

case. I play blues in a native-american blues band. We travel a lot and lugging drums

are not only a hassle, but expensive. I felt the need to break the stigma of the 80s

and move into the 21st century. Even roto tom haters will love this kit!

[coyote-1]

The 6-8-10 rotos project just fine if you use em right. You need to let them be what they are, which is small and therefore high pitched drums. Where people screw it up is by trying to eliminate ringing by using damping heads. They need ambassadors or diplomats.