Billing for studio time

[jimzushi]

Hello all,

I have a complicated scenario of which I would like some feedback. My band is begininning to produce a record. We record and rehearse at the bass player's house which is equipped with an Otari Radar II. This enables us to make professional quality recordings in a comfortable environment. We are presently being financed by an outside party which covers our salaries and budgets. The bass player/studio owner has asked for additional money for the recording facility. The amount he seeks is much lower than any studio of the same calibre. Also, the "recording facility budget" does not come out of any band member's pockets. A certain member of the band believes that the bass player is "skimming" money off the top, and that any money generated should be split equally amongst all band members. He feels that the bass player charging his own band project for studio time is bad business practice.

I personally feel that the bass player has every right to charge studio time for the project. After all, he is the one paying the credit card bills for all the equipment, and in effect funding the studio time. This situation has caused a big rift between the band, and could cause a break-up.

I'm sure that other bands have been through a similar scenario. Are there any contractual guidelines that we could use as a template?

Any coments are appreciated. Thanks.

[EngineGuitarist]

that is a problem. IMO i feel your bass player has a right to charge money for his studio. If you went to another studio you'd pay more. so your band would be in debt to the record company that much more. I can only think of two things you could do. 1) record somewhere else to avoid the problem all together or 2) have all the guys in the band become partners in the studio. This means that everybody gives and recieves equal amounts. if your bassist has $5000 worth of gear and a place for it, you guys would need to each drop about $6000 to be considered an equal partner. honestly, all of you should let the bassist get the extra money. hey maybe if you can talk him into charging a few grand more and giving it to the rest of the band.

[Meriphew]

I think that the bass player should recieve fair compensation for the use of his studio.

[LynGrey]

See I relate this to my Guest list issue that got my old band SubG mad at me... you know ever gig allows you to have a guest list.... and you know I would have ZERO names on my list.. not even my G/f was on it.. or my biggest fan.. that followed me around school... asking me questions about my style and talkin about Ibanez is really cool.. so are airwalks.. my OWN PARENTS paid.. i payed for anybody on my guest list anyways so if I had a guest list i payed for admin on those peeps. Sooo why my band get mad? I would tell them they shouldn't have a list either.. money is money.. and if your g/f wnats to bitch about paying 8 bucks.. then let her... at least we know we aren't worth 8 bucks to her.. and you aren't worth teh 8 bucks to see... sooo make since.. well they got pissy cuz you know what happens when you bring realiaty to image... people get mad.. cuz your right and they are wrong. A guest list means x amount of people that come in and don't pay to see you.. and the BAR still gets the money to keep.. and you are screw no matter how you think about it!

 

I say all that because it applies to your bass player... ok.. fi you think about it as a partnership and in accounting formula... Assets=liabilites plus owner's equity... other words total worth=creditor clamis plus owners claims...

 

If your Bass player has invested 5,000 in the band and everybody else has invested a 1,000... and then the band folded(legals and papers are made and records are kept) and the total band was worth 20000... well you all own a recrod label 10000... so that means you only have 10000 left.. well 5000 is the bass players investment he put in it and the other 5000 would be placed in the rest of the members..

 

but another way to think about it.. .he is using his studio.. and the time it takes to record you he could find a band on the street and say hey you wanna record for 40 bucks an hour? Well if you racked up 100 hours of studio time.. that would 4000 bucks he could earned that he can't get now.

 

I mean if you want to you can be irrational and do what nobody wants to do.. and break up that is choice one.

 

You could also go to another place and record.. and not have a strict atsmosphere that you aren't quite as confertable in.. and think about it at his house.. you have beers and food.. and other stuff.. and you can blow time away and not care.... so that choice two.. find another place and pay more

 

Or you let the Bass player get a larger cut of money...and he will not mind losing his free time on his studio as much... and he band will get a great semi-professional sounding record that you made and saved a few extra bones on.

 

Now let everybody read this and reply.. and asked your self and your band mates which one is more rational?

 

Break up? you get nowhere.

Go some where else? you lose more money!

Or pay your bassist a bit more money(that isn't yours in the first place) and relax and you all chip in and buy a twelve pack everytimr you go over to record and have more room to play a around a bit instead of just going in cutin a track and hope you like it.

[BlueStrat]

Originally posted by jimzushi Hello all, I have a complicated scenario of which I would like some feedback. My band is begininning to produce a record. We record and rehearse at the bass player's house which is equipped with an Otari Radar II. This enables us to make professional quality recordings in a comfortable environment. We are presently being financed by an outside party which covers our salaries and budgets. The bass player/studio owner has asked for additional money for the recording facility. The amount he seeks is much lower than any studio of the same calibre. Also, the "recording facility budget" does not come out of any band member's pockets. A certain member of the band believes that the bass player is "skimming" money off the top, and that any money generated should be split equally amongst all band members. He feels that the bass player charging his own band project for studio time is bad business practice. I personally feel that the bass player has every right to charge studio time for the project. After all, he is the one paying the credit card bills for all the equipment, and in effect funding the studio time. This situation has caused a big rift between the band, and could cause a break-up. I'm sure that other bands have been through a similar scenario. Are there any contractual guidelines that we could use as a template? Any coments are appreciated. Thanks.

 

Have your band member who is suspicious of the bassplayer skimming call a few recording studios around the area and get some quotes. That ought to wake him up. It always amuses me the way so many guys who have nothing invested in something think it ought to be an equal partnership. If this guy can't deal with this as a business reality, he's really not going to like the music business from here on out, and he may as well move on to something else, because he's always, ALWAYS going to feel cheated in one way or another unless he pulls his head out and learns some basic business acumen.

 

Here are some things to tell him:

1) It's fun to play music, but playing for money makes it a business. Making records to sell makes it a business. In fact, any money involved at all makes it a business. Therefore, it would make sense to learn some basic business principles. Most musicians neglect this aspect of performing music, much to their later frustration in life.

2) Playing for financial success in the business is much like shooting craps. It costs money to get into the game, and the more you risk, the more you have a chance to make, though there is no guarantee you will make anything regardless of how much you put in.

3) People who put nothing into the game should not complain when others who do get compensated for it.

4) Being in a band with someone does not entitle you to free use of their gear any more than it entitles you to stay in their house, raid their refrigerator or borrow their car for nothing.

 

In my band, I pay for the recording (well, now the record label is paying for it) but my records are separate from my live performances, so my band doesn't have squat to say about what songs I record, how they are mixed, where they are mastered, who I have play on them, etc etc. I like it that way.

[StratKat]

Here! Here!

 

I agree!

 

The bassist (or whomever) spent his money, not the bands, on the recording equipment. He is furnishing it and that means wear and tear on it. It makes no difference that its a band project. Its his right to charge the band. I too get a laugh out of all the jerks out there in bands saying "Mannnn, you just arnt into the band enough, ya know? You should do it for the band!"

 

Bull{censored}!

 

When everyone contributes equally then yes. But when someone else has toys that everyone else wants to use then be prepared to pay up.

 

Ive lost alot of gear over the years to abuse and wear/tear. Ive never seen anyone of those "Do it for the band" types fess up bucks to replace it. {censored}, most of the time they use it, break it, and expected me to fix it for them for the next gig.

 

BUY YOUR OWN {censored}!

[StratKat]

Hey jim, that last line wasnt aimed at you. BTW

[JMS 2]

Our (new) drummer also has a decently equipped budget studio.

He has recorded several pro band CD's.

His studio is our rehearsal spot and we pay a monthly fee for rehearse. We also pay the tapes and expenditures for recording sessions, as well as a small amount of money for the time he works as recording engineer for our project (even if he's part of it).

 

What I'm trying to say is that your situation is OK for me.

This is quite natural and obvious.

I don't think he's making money on your back ...

[JMS 2]

Now being 100% honest ....

we didn't choose the guy only because he's a good player the fact he has a studio was quite an argument too...

 

I think that we are very lucky to have a bandmember who is actually more than just a bandmember.

Very lucky !

[jimzushi]

Thanks to everyone who replied. It seems that the consensus agrees with me. Your feedback has been very helpful.

The band has actually come to an agreement, after much intense debating, and the studio owner will receive compensation for the use of his facility.

Boy, they weren't kidding when they said money changes everything.

Good luck to everyone. We all need it!

Jim

[Brian Marshall]

i dissagree.

 

My band practices at my house, and records in my home studio. I dont ask the band for any money for compensation. We used to practice at our old singers house, and she seemed to feel that she was entitled to a certain ammount of money each month for "electricity" She seemed to think that all the band equipment was using $50 worth of electricity. Whatever. It aint my fault she was 30 and still worked at a bar, and just got fired.

 

Never mind the fact that I recorded our cd on my gear, and spent hours mixing and mastering after they all left. Maybe i should charge my band for my guitar playing services. When you are in a band you got to be in it together, and if it aint working that way you should leave, or get rid of the offending member out. End of story. The only way to be successful is do every thing as cheap as possible. Recording can be tricky, because you dont want to sacrafice quality, but that is a different subject all together.

 

Here's a thought. If it is a label, indie or otherwise, that is funding your recording you WILL have to pay them back out of royalties.

 

Also, someone mentioned something about having a bigger stake in the band due to investment. I can agree with that, but i dont think it conflicts with my statement above. I feel that in my band that myself and the singer are the most important members, mostly because we put the most time in to it. I own the space, and gear. The two of us write all the songs, and she books all the gigs. She may not have as much invested in me, but there is a lot to be said for just working hard. The bass player wont even buy his own microphone, and shows up and plays his parts. Drummer doesnt even practice at home, because his kit at home has no kick drum pedal. but at least went out and bought some drum mic's for the kick and snare. I can already tell that the bassist probably wont be arround as long as the rest of us, but he's also totally replacable without changing the dynamics of the band too drastically.

[Joseph Kimbrell]

I think this is still very much an issue today (11 years later) as it was in 2002.  In some cases I have heard of stuff like this pushing bands apart.